How is your Club or Region handling this????

[R W Burgess]

I'm guoting Randall from another posted thread to not run theirs astray. The guote below brought to mind a problem our region, the Northern Neck Region, had a few years ago over judging issues. Read Randall's post below first;

<span style="font-weight: bold">

Randall_A_McGrew

Member

Reged: 12/27/00

Posts: 1651

Loc: Colorado Re: I stand corrected. [Re: JB-ed]

#335076 - 11/01/05 09:12 AM

I stand corrected. I hope the hobby is around for a long, long time. Personally, it is not worth arguing about. If you hate modified cars...then don't include them.

Fight the trend.

Boycott those clubs that do but send letters, or better yet, signed petitions to the leadership.

Vote out those in the leadership who made the change. Most never vote according to club stats. If you don't vote, you have no right to [@!#!$].

Write op-eds to the magazines like Self-Starter to get the point across.

Create a movement to stop the inclusion of modified cars from leaking into the hobby. Besides, as has been pointed out, there are plenty of clubs centered on them anyway.

I love cars. I love original cars and non-mods. I can appreciate a modified car, but it makes me sad to think one more example is lost. That Caballero PeterG posted is a perfect example of a beautiful car being modified rather than properly restored, probably at as much cost.

But I will plead guilty to trying to be open minded, to accepting something other than what I like, or agree with. Obviously that is not the trend. Probably never has been.

If I ever get enough gelt to restore my '56 to original perfection, that is the only way she will be done.

And JB-ed, you probably know far more than I do on current trends in pre-war collecters, however, I can only speak for myself. I collect cars that give me that feeling, that reconnect me to the past and the times that were good for me. Nostalgia is a factor for me.

So, I stand corrected in my generalization. I should have said that nostalgia is one of the more powerful motives in collecting for me.

Tommy1927, you are right. Quit those clubs, send those letters....

--------------------

Randall A. McGrew

Longmont, CO 80501 </span>

Good information, Randall. Our region was beset with a little madness over the "judging issue" a few years ago. At a meeting with only a few members present, a motion was made and passed that there would be no more judging of cars at our annual show, except by particapants, the "If it's red, it wins!" rule comes to mind here.

Naturally, at the next meeting, an argument broke out, and after 2 or 3 newsletters advertized that there would be a "re-vote" at the next meeting, our largest attended meeting ever, the conflict was resolved . Some were not happy, some quit the club, but the balance accepted the vote for judged meets, using rules similar to the AACA rules. We do still allow modified cars, unrestored cars, classics(Cobras, Panteras, etc. for the first time), and everyone seems happy, although at the meet this past weekend, we had to beg people to help us vote, which should be an unnecessary action to have to take.

I don't know where I'm going with this. Maybe I just want to know how everyone else is doing. Oh, we do give trophies to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in each class, plus door prizes(some nice ones), and a 50/50 plus over $200.00 cash awards to the pre-registered only. So, what do you guys have to deal with?

Wayne

[1937hd45]

Our local club has had a PRE 1942 NO Modified vehicle rule since it started in the 1950's, NO CHANGES IN THIS RULE are planed in this century.

[ExYankee]

Wayne,How does your region do its classes? All 107(?) of the AACA Classes or do they modify them into larger groups and less classes. About the 1st,2nd and 3rd places. Are there multiple awards like national (if so what is the point spread, 10 like national?) or is it a single 1st,2nd and 3rd per class.

I know of a couple of regions that use the AACA Classes and pass out the trophies like candy. Personaly, at a local show if it is open to the public with day of registration doing the multiple awards makes it hard for the region to know how many trtophies it needs. With a small number of classes and single awards at least you know how many you should need. It would save a lot of unnecssary expense (especially if it would rain), you're not stuck with a lot of unused awards each year.

[Guest Hal Davis (MODEL A HAL)]

Our region allows modified cars. I suppose it is a financial thing. If they didn't, very few entries would be received. Instead, entire clubs of modified cars come to the show. They waffle back and forth each year on what the classes will be. One year it was top 25. Another year, it was specific year ranges divided into original and modified. Sometimes they have special classes for certain models, ie 55-57 Chevies, 28-31 Fords, etc...

My opinion......... In a perfect world, we would only allow original cars, and 100 of them would show up. The fact is, we don't live in a perfect world, so I suppose I can live with modifieds at our show.

Now my pet peave.......Trophies! There are some (actually many) in our club that think EVERYONE deserves a trophy. We know about how many folks will show up. We have our classes set up. When someone decides that we may have more entrants than trophies, they make up a few more classes or special interst trophies so NO ONE will go home emptyhanded. Why not take their money, give them their dash plaque, winshield placard, and trophy when they come to the registration tent and call it a day. For that matter, just let them mail order their trophy and have it shipped to the house. Giving EVERYONE a trophy cheapens it for the ones who really deserve one.

[Shop Rat]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Giving EVERYONE a trophy cheapens it for the ones who really deserve one. </div></div>

Our club no longer holds even a cruise-in. But Bill and I do help the Mountain State T Club with theirs, which is an open show. Bill takes a 35mm photo of each car and the local Rite-Aid processes them at a cheaper rate than normal for the club. Each person that comes gets a wooden plaque with the photo of their car under Plexiglass at the top and a dash plaque at the bottom. The trophies are separate.

But you should see the smiles on all the faces when they get called up to get the photo plaque. So everyone gets a personal keepsake from the show and they all seem happy even if they didn't win a trophy.

There is always a local police officer that brings his mid-sixties Mustang, along with his cruiser and his current drug dog. Bill also takes a photo of him, the cruiser and the dog. The officer then gives that plaque to his commanding officer, who has them displayed in his office.

[kuhner]

Our club/region is still pretty new, so we have only had maybe 4 shows that we totally sponsored. For the most part it was anything goes. From modified to late models, and about 20 different classes. Fortunately we only get from 50 to 75 cars so judging is not too bad, and we usually seperate them as we judge them as modified or stock. I have to believe if we would allow only original cars we would have only a fraction of what get now.

My brother is heavy into street rods and belongs to the AACA and our club and the two clubs do have some functions together. We usually attend each others cruise-in and shows. In the past we have had some informal discussions about the two clubs doing a combined show, but nothing ever came from that. But I think it may be something to consider. At least the cars could be segregated.

Trophies are another thing. I cant believe people get so mad about a cheap piece of plastic! Maybe instead of trophies give everybody an extra nice goody bag when they come in.

greg

[Guest BruceW]

Wayne,

We do a number of small shows for businesses (usually for a donation) and one large annual show which is our biggest funds raiser of the year. Sometimes the small shows are open and sometimes closed (i.e. a display by Harford Region). This usually is dependant on available space at the business sight. If the business pays for trophies.. (usually 2 ), we abide by their wishes as to whether or not it is judged.. or by people's choice. Usually the trophies are best prewar and postwar or Merchant's Choice and People's Choice, etc. They are more of a promotion for the business, plus it gets our region's name out to more people. Very informal.

At our annual show we have 19 classes... consisting of primarily years (i.e. 1896 to 1931... 1932-1939... 1940-1949....etc., plus some classes such as Corvette (all years - 25 and older), Thunderbird (all years - 25 and older) Commercial, Motorcycle, and Modified. In addition, we have a Concourse Class in which AACA senior cars and cars receiving a First Place in its class within the past two years at our show are placed to compete among themselves.

We also have a Children's Mode of Transportation for the kids which consists of scooters, pedal cars, tricycles, etc. in which we award ribbons.

We usually have about 100 to 200 cars..depending on the weather About 5% are modified with the majority original. Some of the modified owners also register original cars. First and second place trophies for each car class are sponsored by area businesses.

As far as judges we sometimes have trouble rounding them up. Some people have other committments at the show.. some have to tend to vendor spaces.. plus some who have already worked 6-7 hours since o'dark-thirty with another 3-4 hours ahead figure they have done their share. But we usually get enough judges to have 2-3 member teams with each team having to judge two classes at the most if possible. Sometimes a team that has judged a small class will go back and do a third if needed. Not all the cars on the field wish to be judged.

Some newer members may want to judge but feel uncomfortable so we team them up with someone that has judged before. We've had non member participants ask to help judge in a class (other than their own) so they can experence judging. Also, we usually get some help from members of the neighboring region that are attending the event.

We try to judge the original cars as close to AACA as possible, but since we are a small region, we do not always have the expertise, so we do the best we can. Our chief judge handles disputes.

Our chief judge has started holding "judging Clinics" twice a year prior to our show to teach new people the basics of judging and as a refresher for older members.

Judging of modifieds are based primarily on condition, quality of workmanship, etc. The modified owners seem happy and our kitchen and vendors do extra sales from them. And hopefully everyone has fun.

Hope this helps..

[R W Burgess]

I'll attach this post to Bruce.

Classes, We have 23 classes, example-

c 1-non fords 1896-1931,

c 4- ford V8 32-40,

c 5-cars, 1932-1940,

c 6 cars 1941-50, Commecial- 2 classes thru 1942, and 43-1980.

Motorcycles,

one class for corvettes,

the same for t-birds.

A modified class for all of them.

Foreign cars-thru 1980

you get the idea.

We judge "similar to AACA rules", but none of the points business, we don't have time to get picky. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Three winners in each class, but if we have a shortage of cars and an abundance of trophies, hey we give ties. Had a few of this year, and they were appreciated by the folks, I think. WE gave out extra trophies for the tied classes. We even had a "Bennie Bootle" former car on the field, a '57 T-bird(red), which I didn't find out about until too late. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> We had a lot of nice original antiques this year.

Judges--the chief judge lays out the rules for all of the workers. We also have 2-3 member teams. Any problems, the chief judge fixes, like our exotics this year, all but one were "kids". I made it a point to make sure those kits realize that the 1 original Ferrari wins first, hands down.

The modified cars is mostly appearance and workmanship as it would be anywhere.

We have preregistered cars at a reduced rate,( these guys also get the chance for the cash awards), a big incentive.

We generally have around 100 cars, weather permitting. The most we've had is 120, I believe, Bruce.

We have "wooden" trophies made up for at least 120 cars. We reuse those not used at the next show. Our Trophies are made out of mahogany, pine, walnut, or cedar, whatever is available. We don't have "plastic" trophies. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Not saying I haven't got some in my collection. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Hey, after showing cars for over 15 years, that part of the show is wearing on me a little. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I guess I'm getting a little too old to like the constant cleaning. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

<span style="font-weight: bold">I'm not saying trophies are bad. A lot of particapants enjoy the competition, and I think that is great. Makes for a better showfield in my mind. </span>

Pictures! We take pictures of each car coming on the field. We "sell" them back to the particapants for $2.00 each. In my mind, that's a little like a bunch of trophies, after a while you've had your fill. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Can't think of anything else. This is good sharing. Oh, Pat Parquette, from Bull Run Region said she was impressed with out handling at registration. I assume she meant, the preregistered go straight thru one lane quickly, and not holding up the late-registered cars which has to fill out their forms at the day of the show.

Wayne

[Guest AlK]

Before our region folded and closed up shop due to the fact that the local CVS and Walgreens did not sell "give a $hit" pills, we had pretty much the same problems, no one wanted to judge, no one wanted to help. We never had a problem with modifieds, we had em, we allowed em, and if a local region wants to exclude them then I hope they are well heeled because outside of a major metro area you are not going to get a lot of entries. The last year that we held a show we decided not to do the trophy thing. Instead we had everyone go out and solicit sponsors either for cash or merchandise. We wound up with over 30 very large and very nice door prizes, in addition to our ample goody bags. The items in the goody bag valued about $20, we had a $15 entry fee. Do the math. The top 2 door prizes were a $550 mechanics tool chest from sams and a $200 air compressor. The two people that won these items swapped because the guy won the tool chest was a professional mechanic and already had one but needed a smaller sized comprssor for his home so they just traded. Everyone went home with more that they paid for. We did not have the problem of judging, setting up classes that everyone involved would complain about anyway, and we did not have to listen to the incessant drivel of "I beat this guys car last week at another show, how come he beat me today". People still talk about that show and that was over 3 years ago and to this day I have not heard one negative word about the way we did it.

[R W Burgess]

A little followup.

We use the 25 year rule as you may have noticed.

As Hal stated sometimes everyone wants a trophy, but that's not feasable. We had one entrant upset about a year ago, but I can't remember why. I figure if only one out of a hundred complained we must have done ok.

We have 23 classes, so that's 3 awards per class unless there is a tie as stated. We also have a best of show trophy, and a special "Bruce Watson" trophy representing one of our more beloved deceased members.

We gave up goodie bags this year, as they were not enough bag fillers picked up to do any good. And, actually, with the goodie bags I've received lately I think others should give up this practice. After all, how many key fobs, state maps, and pencils can one want in a years time.

Bruce, I like your Region's idea of some judges finishing early, going back and helping out the overworked teams that have yet to finish.

After speaking to our President today, I think the country band we had was a real big spectator/particapant draw, especially since they didn't have to listen all day. That's probably the best reason for a band after more consideration on my part. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Another thing the president mentioned. <span style="font-weight: bold">We may not have made money this year!</span> Why? I don't know yet. And I somewhat do not worry about this. I should mention that our Region is very unique in that we have many "paid appearance" shows throughout the year. We don't need to make money. There are other factors that make us profitable too, but you'll have to go to Philly this year to learn more of that. Look me up! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Bottom line on the money thing... I think it's our Region's obligation to the community and the public to give a little back in this way, especially since we can.

Wayne

[Guest BruceW]

Wayne,

Harford does some things similar to Northern Neck. as far as registration.

We have reduced pre-register rates for show cars, flea market vendors and craft vendors. Day of Show registration is typically $2.00 more. Because our shows used to be in the Spring when the weather was very iffy as to rain (The Horse people at the Equestrian Center typically give us one date to choose from.. but its the best facility for our purpose), we used to have mostly day of show registration because people would wait to see what the weather was like on show day. Now that it is during more stable weather, we are seeing more pre-registrations.

We also run a similar gate. Vendors are directed to the vendor area immediately upon entering the grounds and register/check in there. Pre-registered show cars line up on the left receive their packets. From there they are directed where on the field to park. Day of show goes to the right and away from the entrance area where they register and then follow a separate route back to the show field from the other side where they are directed where to park. Our spectator parking..which starts fillng early in the morning.. is located closer to the entrance so those cars can leave without interfereing with the show cars that are registering. It works very well for us.

[R W Burgess]

Bruce, Our registration is "exactly" like yours with "pre-reg" on the "left" and "day of the show" on the "right". <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> You sure Earl Beauchamp didn't have a hand in your showfield setup! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Our flea market is now free, trying to drum up trade as it has dropped so much lately. The cold weather this year hurt sales though, I'm sorry to say.

The farm equipment had an entry fee of $10.00, but the stationary engines were free. Thanks for the feedback.

I've forwarded this thread to all of my Region's members. Maybe we can even get some new blood on here with us. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Guess I'd better straighten up my act, Huh?

Wayne

[tbirdman]

I appreciate the trophies that have a decent ratio of cars to trophies. For example a show that draws 600 cars has 20 classes and 1st, 2nd and 3rd. So thats a 1:10 trophy to car ratio. I like that ratio. That would be way to many for a 200 car show. I went to a 150 car show where they had a class for 55-57, 58-66 and 67 and newer T-Birds. Way too many classes for T-Birds. I'm beyond the trophy stage now. This year I've started showing up late and leaving early and not caring if I won a trophy. Some guys live and die by the trophy.

[R W Burgess]

tbirdman, The only problem I see with too many trophies is that it takes forever to give them out.

Even when we were picking out the door prize winners, we had new names picked out before the first winner could get to the door prize table, "Pick what you want winners, first come, first serve!" <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Gotta give them a little pizzazz to keep them happy, I always say. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Wayne

[Ron Green]

My wife and I ran a show for years and the trophies were the most expensive part of the whole deal. With approximately a 100 vehicles we had 12 classes with 3 trophies in each class and the usual best of show and peoples choice. The trophies would cost around $900 (decent ones) of which I would spend months looking for sponsors as the 8$ to $10 per vehicle admission would not pay for the trophies, so I can see how a club event could lose money.

I also would have additional tags made so the trophies for the classes that were light that day I would remove their tags and add a best paint job, John Does pick, etc.

If I ever was involved in another event I believe I would give out 1st, 2nd and 3rd place ribbons. They are cheaper, much nicer then a cheap plastic trophy, easier to carry and handle, and if you want you can give more out.

Or just give a real nice trophy out to the vehicles that have a do not judge on their car. Won't that upset the trophy hounds.

[olcarherb]

Ron, love your last idea 'bout the trophy(s) going to the Do Not Judge vehicles! But don't think I'd be brave enough to do it in real life!

[Guest BruceW]

Some of the best looking "non-traditional" (aka plastic) show trophies I have seen are the ones presented by Mason Dixon Region at their annual show at the Red Man Lodge near Williamsport, Md. I know I have a photo of the trophies from a past show somewhere.. and if I can find it... I will scan and post it. They had a very nice looking, stained wooden base. On one side they had an enlarged version of their dash plaque for that show. On the other side they had an appropriately sized antique car pump plus the class and winner plaque. They were very well crafted.... didn't look cheap.. and were much more desirable to have on a shelf or a desk then the run of the mill plastic trophies.

I once contacted the region about the costs for the trophies. The person directed me to the company that made the trophies... but unfortunately other things got in the way and I lost the contact info.. and haven't had a chance to persue it further. I have attended their annual show several times and it is also very well run and very enjoyable.

[R W Burgess]

Our show plaques;

The first, a mahagony wood with a satin finish.....

The second, a pine wood with a high gloss finish.

The trophies cost our region about $8.00 each. The "first, second, third" tag cost about $0.75 and the Sponser tag with special info costs $1.75. These are pretty nice, I think. They're certainly different, aren't they?

The member car shown on the plaque is Paul Stosch's, my buddy, 1963 SS Impala with 75,000 original miles. It's equipped with a 283 cu. in. engine, powerglide, and factory A/C, the reason he bought it!

Wayne