Oil for 322 Nailhead

[super55]

Just wondering what type motor oil everone uses, with confidence, in their 322 Nailhead?

[smaltzie]

I don't know what every one else uses, but there is a synthetic oil called Royal Purple and it is fantastic!. It increases horse power, increase mph and lowers the temp in your car. I buy it at only O'Rielly in Houston. They don't give it away though. I,m going to put it into my transmission when i get in to stop leaking. It is amazing on how you will feel it working as your driving down the road.

Randy

[Guest imported_NikeAjax]

Hey there feller, you tryin' ta start some kinda fight er somthin'? Just messing with you. I only said that because this is the kind of question that when you ask ten people, you get 42 different aswers, and then you get some guy who thinks he's right, an only he is right and then people start a fuden'!

I was told by a guy who sells the stuff, that as long as it has the SAE quality rating, it's good for your motor. A rule of thumb is the newer the motor, the lighter the grade, like 10/30, then the older, more miles on the motor the thicker you want, like 20/50.

Just a thought,

Jaybird

[smaltzie]

that is all i was saying too! Yeah you know that saying, "Opinion are like your butt, Everyone has one and they all Stink." This synthetic comes in different grades too.

Randy

[Guest AWBE]

Plain old Havoline 30-W is best.---Unless it is a brand new rebuild, don't use HD oil.

[old-tank]

The frequency of change is probably more important than the brand or viscosity used. Most of us will never drive one of out collectibles enough to wear it out even if using Walmart oil. I use Castro 20w-50 in all of my cars.

Willie

[The Old Guy]

Valvoline 10-40 is the oil I prefer. My 40 has run over 102,000 miles and still runs GREAT! You will find ( as earlier stated) that you will get as many answers as there are brands, so use whatever is available in your area for the best price.

[Guest]

First, remember that all oils -event eh Walmart special - are 100 times better then anything you could get in the fifties. I would use a 5w-30 of any major brand. I would use conventional oil not synthetic. Synthetic has it's good points but if you have a restored car that you will be showing and driving between 2,000 and 5,000 miles per year then you will change your oil often anyway. Condensation gets in synthetic oils as much as conventional.

The 5w30 will provide slightly better fuel mileage and internal operational smoothness over 10w-40. There is no need for 20w-50 unless you have low oil pressure.

[michel88]

I would not use synthetic oil in an older engine. It flows better than the conventional oil, and gets into all the "nooks & cranies" which is good in a modern engine. From what I have heard when used in an older engine it can cause leaks where there were none before, and even if you switch back to a conventional oil the leak(s) usually remains.

Woody Michel

[smaltzie]

forgety i said anything

[super55]

Thanks for the input and I hope to get more. I am tired of going to get a case of oil and always wondering which type to get. Even though there are a lot of varying opinions, they are all very helpful. At least now I won't be spending as much time picking out my oil.

[Mrbuick714]

All oils are NOT the same. A gentleman with the most perfect 54 I have seen since they were new,lost TWO camshafts one right after the other,and with a NAME BRAND oil (which will remain nameless at this time). He was disturbed to say the least! I explained to him that zinc-dialkyl-dithiophosphate additive in oil protected the camshaft,and now and then a supplier "cheated"and told him this doesn't happen with my favorite brand.He switched to Valvoline and no more camshaft problem.

[JohnD1956]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A gentleman ...lost TWO camshafts one right after the other,and with a NAME BRAND oil (which will remain nameless at this time). </div></div>

Hey, Mr. Buick... Name that oil. It may or may not have been the problem, but inquiring minds need to know...

[NTX5467]

It's not just synthetics that go into those nooks and crannies, even different brands of petroleum oil do that too. One friend complained of oil leaks after he tried Castrol instead of his normal Pennzoil--all "normal" petroleum-base oils. He changed back from that "blasted" (a tamer word than he used) Castrol and the leaks stopped. With many cork-based gaskets, once they start to wick oil through them, the only way to fix that is to replace them--synthetic or petroleum based oil will not matter.

In older engines with older-spec oil seals, sometimes the synthetic will seep past them better than it should. But I also recall the comments of a BCA member that put a particular brand (check the archives regarding the travels to the Flint Buick Centennial for tis) of synthetic oil in his '55 or '56 and had no problems with leaks or added consumption on the trip to and from Flint.

In those earlier engines, I suspect that 30 weight motor oil would have been the most popular choice for normal summer temerature ranges. I suspect that 10W-30 or 10W-40 would be good replacements. I don't know that I'd go with a 5W-30 oil unless the winter temps required it. Remember too, that low number in the multi-viscosity oil is related to the viscosity at lower temps (32 degrees F, if I recall correctly) and NOT specifically a cold engine. Therefore, in 80 degree ambient temps, the 5W-30 oil could really be more like a 20 weight oil than a 5 weight oil. Of course, as the engine starts and the operating temps rise, the viscosity will rise to the design level of the upper number.

Thicker oil might be needed more of a "fix" for looser bearings and weak rings, but too much viscosity can be bad too. I could tell the difference in going from 30 weight oil to 20W-50 in a rebuilt engine with 6000 miles on it. I drained out the 20W50 Castrol GTX and substituted 10W40 GTX and things got back to normal (with respect to engine response with the prior 30 weight oil).

But I also remember the time we sold a new crankshaft and bearings to a shop that had a Pontiac T/A 400 in for noisy bearings. Seems the guy added two cans of STP Oil Treatment (viscosity improver) to the oil with an oil change with 20W50 to try to quieten things down, but the resultant 50W70, or thereabouts, oil mixture would not flow soon enough to keep the bearings from starving for oil. Whoops!

Synthetic oil in general will flow easier (the first time I did a change with Castrol SynTech 10W40, it poured out of the bottle so fast that I wondered if it had been a sealed bottle that was not filled as full as it should have been!). It's that easier pumpability that requires less power from the engine to drive the oil pump, which relates to more power at the flywheel as a result. Plus probably a little faster throttle response (that is more "feelable" than 5 more horsepower at the flywheel, I suspect).

If you do some research on the various ratings on the current oil bottles, you'll find that as long as it's a 10W30 or 5W30 oil, they ALL will be "fuel economy" oils, including the petroleum base oils. I pulled that information from a Google search a while back, so I know it's out there without reading some oil company's marketing dialogue. And that fuel economy rating has been enhanced by the latest (post June, 2004?) higher letter ratings too.

Usually, camshaft wear issues are more related to the Parkering/surface hardening treatment process of the finished cam lobes than specifically a particular brand of motor oil--not to mention the method of initially lubing the cam lobes before the lifters are installed and initial "fire-off" and "run-in" procedures. With all due respect, perhaps the brand of oil might have been the scapegoat for other issues? Might have been some low quality valve lifters too? A couple of added variables in the mix too . . . possibly.

I concur that even the least expensive oils on the market today are better than the premium oils of the early '60s. The succession of basic oil formulation specs to keep pace with OEM applications/requirements of new and future engines is the reason. Even the detergent packages in current oils probably far exceed the levels of the later '60s "HD" oils, regardless of brand, but some brands are still better than others in that respect too.

The oil "landscape" is a wide one and what's available in one place might not be readily available in another part of the country. Some outlets will only have the more recent 5W30, 10W30, or diesel-spec 15W40 as those are currently used oil specs. Yet most brands still have 30 weight oils in their catalogs, just not that many places keep it any more as the multi-weights are considered "better" these days.

I suspect that for what you're doing, a quality 30 weight motor oil would do fine. You could find some to "baseline" the comparison if you decided to later change to a multi-viscosity oil (probably 10W30 or 10W40 depending on summer heat issues or other preferences). I suspect you might be better off with a petroleum based motor oil, mainly for availabilty and cost issues . . . but if you can afford it, blended synthetics are better, and synthetics are supposed to be the best. Your money, your judgment call--just like what brand of oil filter to use.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[The Old Guy]

Zinc dithiophosphate is still used in the newer oils.but it is not as high a percentage as in the past because it fouls the catalytic convertor in newer cars. EOS (engine oil supplement) is a product available from most GM dealers. It has a high percentage of anti-scuffing additives.Dennis Manner ( Retired engine engineer) told me some time ago that his older Buicks all get EOS added with every oil change.That is good enough for me as Dennis and Nelson Kunz were the men responsible for the high performance engines ( 2X4 425and Stage 1 455)

[Guest Skyking]

I've been using Castrol GTX for years in all my cars.........

[raleets]

When I entered the hobby and joined the BCA 18 years ago a young whippersnapper named Joe Taubitz suggested I use Valvoline straight 30 in both my '56 Special and '62 Skylark, with the aluminum V-8.

I took his advice and have used nothing else since day #1. Other than changing oil, belts, and water pumps in both cars, I've NEVER had a motor problem of any kind.

So....."if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Pass the Valvoline, please.

Bob Leets

Flint, MI

[Guest AWBE]

I think staight 30W is what is recommended in the manual.That's what I use. Except I use Havoline.

[brad54]

One thing I have heard is never to use a Parafin-based oil, such as Quaker State. Parafin, as in wax. I knew a guy who used to be a mechanic, and he said every time he pulled an oil pan on a car using Quaker State, the inside of the engine was coated with wax!

As for the camshaft, I have to agree that the oil is probably a scape goat. Wiped out cam lobes are almost always the result of the lifters or valves binding, not allowing the lifter to raise with the lobe.

One of the most common causes of this is too much valve spring pressure. Typically, if you take a brand new box of valve springs, there will be a difference of up to 10 pounds of pressure from the stiffest to the weakest. When installing them on the head, often there is a difference in the depth of the cuts for machining valve spring seats in the head--some are a hair deeper or a hair shallower than the others. A spring developes more pressure the more you compress it, so if you install the stiffest spring in the shallowest pocket, that spring will have a lot more seat pressure--which can wipe out a cam. With the unlucky combination of the stiffest spring in the shallowest seat, you could easily have 50, 80 or more too much seat pressure. Correcting this is called "Blueprinting your valve springs." It's tedious and time consuming, but you won't wipe out a cam. (unless you used a bargain cam and lifters, or the oil flow in your engine is somehow restricted).

I've also seen sticking valve guides hurt a cam as well. Though on a fresh engine, you should never NOT know you have tight valve guides. That's just a matter of checking to make sure the valves move freely. Yet I've seen that, too.

-Brad

[Guest norb]

I have used only Quaker State 10W30 for 40 years,or when they started using multi-wt oils,& many of my cars have had well over 100,000 miles including my 3 present ones and have never had an oil related problem which is good because I dont work on engines just for fun like Joe does.I think the secret is to follow your owners manual as when to change oil.mine says 7500 mi but I dont wait quite that long.Lately I have been changing the filter every other time .After 100,000 miles I think all the particles have been washed out by now. By the way,where I worked,we had 4 high speed endurance rooms that ran 24 hrs a day year after year ,at full throttle,about 46 or 4800 RPM. I cant remember for how long,maybe 100 hrs.each test. We used 10W30 oil,whatever brand they could purchase but they were always top brands.Never used additives.However we used standard indolene clear gas which was 103 octane. As I remember, the early V-6 was the best for endurance. Norb

[NTX5467]

Back when I started buying oil for cars that I owned, I looked around and wanted to put the best thing I could in it. At that time, Castrol was not a really big brand in the USA (circa 1975), other than possibly with the motorcycle people (when I started looking for Castrol, people referred to it as "motorcycle oil" and questioned my using it in an automotive engine). They were also touting an additive, "liquid tungsten" as the newest, best thing. But, I also knew that Castrol had a European heritage (i.e., Autobahn) and that if it would do well in a small displacement European engine, with generally smaller bearing surfaces and running at higher rpms for very extended periods of time, it ought to be a "cruise in the park" with an American engine with more generous bearing surfaces and lower rpm levels. On the one new car I bought in 1977, after over 400,000 miles on the engine with Castrol GTX20W50, then changing to Syntech Blend 20W50 later on, until I replaced it at 576,000 miles (all of the freeze plugs were needing to be replaced and pulling the engine was required, so we just swapped engines, installing one I'd had in "wait" for many years).

When I did a cam, timing set, and intake manifold upgrade at 92,000 miles (at 4000 mile change intervals) everything in side was unbelieveably clean and free of deposits and such. Even very few staligtites on the bottom of the intake manifold. People that had been using other brands of oil were amazed.

By observation, it seems that many drag racers, who might have started driving and buying oil back when Valvoline started getting involved in drag racing advertising and such started using Valvoline back then (in the early '60s) and still do.

When I started paying attention to car stuff in the later '50s, you'd hear people "swear by" certain oils or other products. That was back way before there were so many conglomerates that owned things. Amalie, and it's Pennsylvania crude oil stock was supposed to be one of the best oil stocks due to its long molecular chain structure--so it hung together better than other oils might in severe conditions. We always used Gulf oil and gas in our cars back then, and when we'd need to change valve cover gaskets and such, everything was always reasonably clean inside. One mechanic remarked that the only other oil that kept things cleaner, at least in motors he'd seen apart, was Valvoline--that was in about '68.

One Exxon service station operator commented that one particular name brand was using Arabian crude for their oil stocks and they usually had sluding issues more with that brand of oil than others. Later observations at the work place confirmed that, as that was their favored brand back then.

Some oils seemed to tolerate extended drain intervals better than others, as I recall, even though they all met the same performance specs (MS, etc.). But it seemed to me that when Gulf changed over to Chevron in TX in about '72, the fuel lost about 2 pump octane points and the equivalent oil did not perform quite so good--just my observations in the vehicles that I was taking care of back then.

When oil became a more integral part of the vehicle emissions system (remember when "ashless" oil was an improvement in the early '70s?), plus it having to meet increasingly tough standards for cleanliness, wear resistance, and longevity, lots of those old recommendations kind of disappeared as the oil performance criteria specs changed greatly. Do a Google search for the ILSAC specs and you'll see just how far things have come and are still going in the oil improvement areas.

Used to be that they would use one particular automotive engine to run one particular test on and use other brands and sizes for other tests. Never did understand that unless those particular motors typically had problems in the particular areas the oil in them was being tested for. Things like piston skirt skuffing, low temperature sludge, bearing wear, etc.

Whereas in earlier times, the base crude stock would be important, but in more modern times it's more the respective additive and viscosity improver packages that each oil manufacturer/marketer uses that make the difference--whether in petroleum, blended synthetic, or "full" synthetic.

When somebody asks me for a brand recommendation on a new vehicle, the reply is to use the viscosity that is recommended by the manufacturer (usually on the oil filler cap) and then choose a brand that they desire AND is readily available where they get their oil changed or buy it to change themselves--important if the vehicle "uses" oil. If they ask what I might use in my own cars, then I tell them. But still, I let the customer make the brand decision themselves.

At the dealership level, the "preferred" oil is the one that usually has the best total package deal. Price, equipment services, service, the sales rep, etc. are very important. Many use bulk oil programs too.

The one thing that might concern me is that with all of the mergers and combinations in modern times, just how do you know that the Exxon oil you buy is not Mobil oil? Or that Quaker State is not really Pennzoil, or vice versa (they're now corporate siblings), without testing for the chemical markers in each brand of oil? In the "old days", such a thing would never have been a question as they were all separate and unique entities, but it's not that way anymore. And the same thing would apply to gasoline brands then and now, too.

But as long as the oil is changed reasonably often for the use and conditions, with a quality filter of at least OEM specs (OEM brand too, I might recommend), then any engine should have a good service life. Used to be that an engine was "worn out" at 80,000 miles, but it's certainly not that way anymore. Oil and filtration improvements, plus more refined machine work at the engine plants, have contributed to these things.

Also, if the oil meets a Mil-spec (military specification) number, which they most all will as they all usually bid for military contracts, then all brands mix with and tolerate other brands of oil.

Alhtough "brand loyalty" seems to be a dying orientation, it's good to see that it's still alive in some areas! Yet I'm also sure that those in the petroleum and automotive engineering areas have information on various oils that nobody else has access to, which would indicate that some brands are better than others and in which respects. At this stage of the game, there should be no "bad" oils, just some that are better than others.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[Mrbuick714]

You asked!

[JohnD1956]

Here's some thoughts:

I try to stick with a brand of oil once I have a car. On the sweetheart's 93 Regal 3800 ( which I bought new), we always have used Penzoil brand and Fram filters. It currently has 144K and still feels strong. These cars have oil pressure guages, and this car consistently has more than 60 lbs when it is cold and continuously runs at over 45 lbs of pressure when warm.

By way of comparison, one of my sods bought a 93 Regal GS with the same engine, but I don't know the cars history. I do know he bought it with less than 70K and right now is just over 100K. And my other son just bought a 94 Regal GS with the 3800 at 99K. Again we don't know the prior owners and it's history, but both of those cars consistently run at 40 lbs of pressure. So I guess oil brand may have some importance, but not significant importance.

I think it is much more important to maintain a schedule for oil changes that is appropriate to the use the car gets. And always change the oil filter too.

JohnD

[Mrbuick714]

Why me? You are the FIRST Buick owner I have heard of who is not using O/E filters!

[JohnD1956]

It's worse than you think. I have consistently used Fram filters, although I think I'm going to switch to the NAPA brand soon, because of all the bad reputation they have been getting here and elsewhere.

JD

[Guest 55cruisen]

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