Brighter tailights

[Guest]

I almost got backended by a big Dodge 4X4 yesterday. Driver said he didn't see the stoplight on my Packard. I know that it isn't the best but is as good as Packard made itr in 47. I looked on the net for LED bulb which might work but only see 12V models of the 1157. I have the backing reflector painted white as original. Anyone have any ideas of what would work to increase the brightness of these lamps. I think I could fab up a 3rd brakelight for the rear window easily enough if that would help.

[Guest DeSoto Frank]

If that j__k-__s in the bubba truck was keeping a "safe distance" AND paying attention, he shouldn't have needed to see your brake lights !

I guess that's a part of the problem that we're not likely to fix though...

Juliano's ( a rod supply house ) has some LED upgrade stuff, but don't know if anyof it is 6 -volt...

They also have some slick-looking "Center-mount" stuff for the rear window...I've been hoping that someone will start offering a nifty "period" looking LED stoplight that we can mount on the rear "package" shelf of our sedans & coupes, and wire right into our stock stoplight circuit...

Some electronically-inclined guys have been making their own LED stuff to go inside the stock tailight housings over on the P15-D24 web site (P15-D24.com).

I think part of the visibilty problems comes from the low mounting position on the fenders and the small size of the stock units...while it doesn't do anything for the aesthetics of the car, perhaps you could make some brackets that would utilize existing bumper / bumper-guard bolts and add some Signal-Stat or Petersen pedestal-mount stop/tail units, like used to be on the fenders of 1950's pick-ups...?

Isn't it aggravating the legnths we have to go to to protect ourselves from other people's poor driving habits?

(How 'bout some Unity fog lights, mounted on the back bumper, with red lenses in them? Maybe THAT'll wake "Bubba" up ! )

[Tom Deering]

I agree with Frank. If Bubba or anyone else of his ilk should cause you any damage; take him to court and charge him with: Driving wiih HUA ! That is the most lame -ss alibi anyone driving (?) that type of vehicle could fabricate.

Tom D.

[Guest]

Dave,

I am assuming that the lenses in your Packard are probably glass and not plastic. My experience has been that glass lenses just do not conduct light as brightly as do plastic lenses. Maybe it is that the prisms that can be molded into plastic just can't be put in a glass lens. I have no solution to offer, just further possible insight into the problem.

Now tell me your lenses are plastic.

hvs

[Guest]

Howard, For shame man! A Packard with cheap plastic lens!! No they are glass and you are right they probably don't conduct light as efficiently as plastic. As far as taking this yahoo to court we have "no fault" insurance here and the police don't get involved unless the damage exceeds $750 or about the cost of a replacent glass taillight lens on a Packard. I have been considering using some type of more reflective material possibly a flashlight reflector around the bulbs or even a mylar coating which I think can be bought in a mirror finish. Any other ideas welcomed. This is definitely red neck country with 4 trucks for every car on the potholed pavement of this frontier community.

[Guest]

Dave. I sort of assumed that Packard lenses would be glass. After all, Cadillacs of the same era had glass lenses.

I assume that the brake light bulbs are 2 filament, one for brakes and one for lights. Is there any chance that there are two bulbs, and that the brake light is single filament? If that should be the case you might consider taking a two filament bulb and laying a bead of solder across the contacts which will then at least double the CP output. I have done this a couple of times with taillights of early Buicks which have no brake lights and so use only a single filament bulb. If it is already a 2 filament bulb, you might consider going to a 21/21 CP headlight bulb if it will fit under the lens. At least with glass lenses you don't have to worry about melting anything with a larger and hotter bulb.

Your thought of silver mylar sounds like an improvement over the white background.

hvs

[Dave@Moon]

Dave there are 6 Volt LED 3rd brake light sout there if you look for them. There's a local guy in Dayton (I don't have his name) that makes magnetic attached units for MG T-series cars. His units go for about $125, and would likely fit any car with a metal reat body. I'm sure there are many others.

Here's a unit I found through Yahoo that's available for $40.

This raw unit is intended to be attached to a motorcycle, but looks like something that could be fabricated into a good 3rd brake light. It's currently on sale for $27.99.

[Chris Bamford]

Painting the inside of the reflector with aluminum-type paint will be an improvement over the original white.

A layer of reflective mylar film for (building) windows will be better still. The commonest and most effective type is Silver-20, with 55% visible light reflection. Most tint shops will have scraps and crops for free in the amount you would need.

I can't picture the brake light on your Packard, but is there room inside the lens for an additional bulb? Perhaps another socket could be tucked in, and wired in parallel with the factory brake lamp. There's likely some way to anchor it without drilling holes in any original metal, if that is important to you. Use a powerful bulb. It would be a nice touch to use an old socket from the parts box, ideally one from a Packard.

Most effective is a high-mount brake lamp in the rear window. You see these period accessory STOP lights regularly at swap meets. The stoplight could mount on a carrier plate riding in the package shelf, and maybe set at the far left side of the back window. The carrier might be sheet metal with an angle at the forward end to tuck behind the rear seat back cushion. Soft material on the bottom of the carrier would protect the package shelf surface. The wiring could be tucked out of sight and made quick-release if desired.

Using a period stop lamp and bits makes for the ideal modification - the Reversable Couldabeen.

My 1912 Kissel had a tail/license light but no stop lamp so I added a period (admittedly 1920s) combination stop and tail lamp. I painted the reflector interior with silver manifuld paint, wired both lamps in parallel, and put powerful brake bulbs in both sockets. Works great!

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

Yes, 6ix v LED is available but i do not remeber where from.

Possibly, can u install a 6ix v HEADLITE bulb with enuf lens clearence??? Thats what i use on an Indian but had to use a GLASS Cushman tailite lens to get clearence.

[critterpainter]

Don't know about 6 v LED bulbs, but high output 6v brake/taillight bulbs do exist in both halogen and quartz. In fact "Vintique" lists them in their wholesale catalog. The retail end of ther business sells ford and flathead v8 stuff but I don't recall the name at the moment. They are located in the LA area.

Bill

[Guest DeSoto Frank]

I'm all for "period when practical"...

Right now, my De Soto is more "Driver" than showpiece, so for now, I think I'm gonna git me one of them there led high-mounts from 3rd brake light, and see if I can discreetly mount it under the garnish moulding around my rear window...

I think I might also try to chase down one of those aftermarket "wig-wag" lights...

Or maybe some retired RR crossing lights & gong...

[Guest]

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. i bought some relective chrome mylar sheet and some light bulbs to try Howards idea about a double filiment bulb soldered together. The Packard has two bulbs in the taillight housing and the glass lens is about 1/4" think so heat won't be an issue. I like the 3rd light idea as well so thanks Dave for locating the site. I didn't find it in my search. I think if I could find an old Volvo PV444 I could scavenge the roof mounted turn signal tower so the nose bleed 4x4 set wouldn't have an excuse not seeing lights when they tailgate me.

[Guest Ken G]

I?m clearly missing something here. In my opinion, from 40-odd years of driving, lights that come on when you press the brake pedal are of some value at speed on the open road, indicating that vehicles ahead are slowing down, but under most other circumstances are of no use whatever. After dark they can be positively dangerous because they can dazzle a driver close behind you so that he fails to see something else. In any case, I cannot see how they would have any relevance to preventing someone from running into the back of my car when I was stationary or moving slowly. If a driver behind me cannot see my car under those circumstances, he shouldn?t be driving. (In any case, if you are stationary, you shouldn?t be sitting with your foot on the pedal; the hand-brake should be on!)

When the third, central light was being tried out, so only very few cars had them, they made a difference because they stood out as being unusual, but once most vehicles had them, that difference went away.

Anyway, I would leave well alone. I think efforts to make the brake lights brighter would be more profitably applied elsewhere.

Ken G, 1925 Rover 16/50 (San Francisco)

[Guest]

Ken, You make some very valid points. Would you agree that sometimes the sudden glare of a brake light "wakes up" a driver who is coming behind you especially at highway speeds. In the case of my old Packard and many other cars of the period the brake lights are almost invisible on a bright sunny day and are mounted low on the body. If I can prevent an accident to my car by improving the visibility of the lights then it is time well spent IMHO.

[Guest Ken G]

Dave K.

Frankly, I have my doubts about whether it is possible to have lights bright enough to have any impact (unfortunate word, perhaps!) in sun-light that would not be extremely dangerous after dark. (I suppose their intensity could change depending on whether you had the headlights switched on, but now we are getting into extra switches and wiring). I'm sure we have all experienced the danger of approaching a stationary police car showing lights so bright that you cannot see to drive, however slowly. You may know that in Britain at least, new cars are required to have rear fog-lights, extra bright rear lights, but it is illegal to turn them on except in fog or extreme spray. In Clipper 47's case, I don't think brighter lights would do much harm, but I also doubt that they would do much good!

This string had some relevance to me. My Rover of course did not have brake lights originally, but they were added during restoration in the 1990s; I spent a while over last weekend moving the brake light switch in my Rover from a place where it tended to stick on when you applied the handbrake because the pedal moved down. Much more valuably, I also installed a driver's lap belt; it is not easy to drill 0.5 inch holes in the girders of the chassis!

Ken G, 1925 Rover 16/50 (San Francisco)

[Guest]

Ken. My purpose is not to have brake lights which exceed or even equal what has been common on modern automobiles for the past 30 years. I would just like them to be bright enough in bright daylight to leave no doubt in another drivers eyes or mind that they are in fact on given that most drivers nowadays expect to see large brilliant red lights from another vehicle braking in front of them not a dim glow 4" square just above the bumper. I do not have any intention of creating a hazard to other drivers with some high intensity beam such as the rear fog lights which are found on European cars for at least 20 years and which BTW are very effective in fog. I intend to put one on my Volvo 240 for fog and winter blizzard conditions we often encounter here.

I just fitted chrome film on one light and it increased the brilliance probably by 50% from the untreated side. That's about all I wanted.

[35cz8]

Dave, On my '36 Dodge RS coupe, there is only one tail/stop light. I had the same problem so just removed the lens and fashioned a bit of tin foil to fit inside the tail lamp. This helped to brighten up not only the stop light, but the tail light as well. If it begins to fade, I just put a new one in. Good luck. Bob

[6219_Rules]

Dave, as I am sure others have said, there are kits available for 6 volt systems that use a modified halogen lights. I read about them in a book on car restoration. It does require some modification of the tail light assembly...drilling etc but they are available. I like your solution better. If something as simple as foil works, I may try it on my '47!!! Now when it comes to the '56, I think you can get 12 volt halogen replacements, bulb and sockets, for those. I refuse to put one of those ugly third lights on my rear deck! Yuck. Studies have shown (back in the 80s) that these decreased sudden rearend engagments, which would have been avoided in any case were people to pay attention to their driving! Actually I find that early braking and care not to ride too close to the car in front of me, keeps people behind at bay...annoyed but at least aware.

Good job, Dave! Ingenuity strikes a round tone once again.

[Tom Deering]

Dave,

Now that we have discussed the plausibiity of issuing clear plastic domes for implantation into Bubba's mid section so he can see where he is going; how about brighter bulbs? There are 6V halogen bulbs available that are (I believe) 10/55cp in the double filament configuration, and 50cp in the single element style. Try this site as a possible source:

www.taillightking.com

web page

Hope it works. Tom D.

[Guest]

Tom, Gee thanks. They are just what I'm looking for. I'll order a pair tonight! Today after I glued in the chrome foil the light s are quite a bit better. The bulbs will really help keep Bubba off my bumper!

[Guest]

Thanks Tom. This info will help not only Dave but a lot of us. I will be ordering soon too. Thanks again. This is the type of input we really need on this forum.

Howard

[Guest imported_JPIndusi]

In addition to the use of foil or chrome tape in the taillight assembly to improve the reflection off the back of the assembly, I am concerned about driving in the dark with my 1948 Buick Special Sedanet, which is black. If Bubba runs into you in broad daylight he has a problem. In darkness, some of these 1940's cars did not have very bright tail-lights. The reflector on my Buick is a round red piece of glass about 1 inch diameter.

To improve the visibility of the rear end in the dark, I purchased some strips of red reflector material used for school busses and commercial vehicles. This is not the cheap tape but the good stuff. This comes with an adhesive backing. I cut a few nice sized pieces of this, about 2" by 4" and then affixed these to pieces of magnetized rubber sheet. While driving to a show or returning, I put these on the rear deck, the magnetic sheet holds very well. When I get to the show I remove them. They really light up when a headlight shines on them.

My 2 cents.

Joe, BCA 33493

[Guest DeSoto Frank]

This is a great suggestion !

Especially the magnetic mounting idea!

[6219_Rules]

Hi everyone, I just purchased a whole set of stop lights and turn signal bulbs that are 6 volt halogens from the taillightking. I sent a note to AJ yesterday morning early to get the shipping amount and to ask if any modifications would be required. To my pleasure, he responded immediately. No mods and the shipping was minimal. I should be getting the bulbs in a day or two. I will let you all know how they work on the '47.

[Richard F]

Another source of 6-volt halogen head and tail lights bulbs is:

http://classicandvintagebulbs.com/index.html

These are made in Australia but there are North American distributors listed. I have bought them from Marc Michon in Fresno CA (scout@madnet.net).

One thing I learned about halogens is that they are less tolerant of voltage spikes in unregulated systems than standard bulbs. If you have a third brush type generator, make sure that it is adjusted properly or you will blow out the bulb. Marc told me that the halogens will pop at about 10.5 volts whereas tungsten bulbs will take up to about 11.6 volts.

[A by the sea]

http://www.welcome.to/cvb

They sell direct plug in replacement bulbs with a correct focus. They will do a great improvement to your headlights and tail lights and they will work with a generator.

Imagine bright useable headlights in you model A so you actually drive 55-60 at night too. BTW, I am not joking about the speeds.

[Guest bkazmer]

while many old Mopars had the center third light for the brake, Packards didn't - but they did typically have the center mount license frame. This might be spot to fasten a third light tastefully.

[Guest tin knocker]

I just downloaded the catalog for the Australian company. The prices listed are in Australian dollars. Does anyone know what the current exchange rate is?

Rollie

[ply33]

At present one Australian dollar is worth about 71 cents in the US. You can get current quotes at:

http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?amt=1&from=AUD&to=USD&submit=Convert

[Guest tin knocker]

Thanks 33, I am seriously considering a pair of halogen for my headlights.

Rollie

[Tim Wolfe]

I had all my reflectors polished and then coated with aluminum and the covered with glass. My headlights and cowl lights are bright. I could look up the address if you want to contact the company who did mine. By the way, I drive a Dodge 4x4 and two '30 Chryslers! wolfe@wesnet.com

[Guest]

Thanks Tim, I coated the reflectors with a chrome adhesive backed foil that I found at the local parts store and this alone gave me about 50% better visibility.