Guest Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 This is to announce the introduction of the new 2002 Kia Spectra GSX hatchback! Congratulations you lucky buyers in the North American market. Now you can enjoy the pride that comes with driving a new car with one of the most honored names in the history of automobiles. <P>Just to make the experience complete, we've even duplicated (as much as the legal department would dare) the look and feel of the old GSX badge, except that we've substituted yellow where the old badge had red. We knew you'd appreciate the thought!<P>Kia Motors America, leading independant thinkers in the world car market!<P> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 Anybody ticked off yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 Buddy! are you for real!! Take your F%*#en Kia somewhere else............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLark Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 Great sarcasm! Here's a road test article on one.<P>It's about as ugly as my old Gremlin. No, at least the Gremlin had sporty stripes....<BR> <A HREF="http://www.savvymotoring.com/rt_010917_01_spectra.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.savvymotoring.com/rt_010917_01_spectra.htm</A> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 YELLOWLARK, I'm surprised you wasted time doing research on this thing...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 If the Lexus GS wasn't enough.......truly sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 GAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66400 Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 I always thought it was a strange name for a car company... KIA...KILLED IN ACTION Henry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 Martin, don't forget--they're the Lexus GS400 <B> and </B> GS350. You've got to admit; if you're going to plagerize names, you can't beat Toyota.<P>I posted this thing mostly because the resemblance of the badge to the Buick GS/X really made me mad. (I was stuck behind one of these in traffic yesterday, and it was the first time I'd seen the badge.) <P>I disagree with Yellowlark, I think the car is fairly good looking for what it is. Also, if you've been paying attention lately somewhere around 1996 or 1998 somebody taught the Koreans how to build something like real cars. They aren't nearly as bad as their reputation or past <I>( or resale value!! </I> <I> )</I>. <P><I> Where does this end???? </I> The Pontiac Tesstarossa? The SAAB GTO? The Daewoo Silver Shadow? <P>There are plenty of names with a strong cache that have had their copyright expire. I'm old enough to remember the stink that was raised when Ford jumped on the SS and RS Chevy designations when their copyright expired. Does anybody fondly remember the Escort SS? No!<P>I hope this comes back to bite Kia in the soft spot where most of their old products used to come from.<p>[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: Dave@Moon ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 DAVE@MOON, I wonder who taught the Koreans, probably the same idiots who invited the Japs to Georgia to see how well and efficient the Ford Taurus's were being built. We are unbelievable, our worst own enemy........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Chapman Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 At least with the Lexus GS models, there continues a strong dedication to performance. The GS400/GS430 in particular is a very, very fast and capable automobile. <P>I submit that if Buick were building cars of this quality and performance there would be no cause for the recurring discussion about the likely demise of GM's first nameplate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAD36 Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 Just to make the experience complete, I would rather drive my garden tractor to work than that thing.<P>Kia - sounds like a weed.<p>[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: KAD36 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEW1966 Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 You are sick.<P>I AM THE BODY OF CHRIST ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 Funny how most people here probably have cars that are more than 10 years old or have over 100k miles...<P>The KIA 10 year / 100,000 mile warranty is basically a death certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 I don't own a car that's under 100,000 miles. And it is funny, they're all American. But, that's me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 Is/t this a Collectible Automobile Discussion Forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 Evidently, some people on this forum are starting to collect Kia's. I agree, this NEW JUNK doesn't belong on this forum. I don't think the people who started this web page intended for this to happen. It's too bad there are some who think it is funny!! The one who starts these sould be permanently banned from using it.DOES ANYONE AGREE WITH ME??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK Buickman Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 I like 66400's acronym for KIA;<BR>Killed<BR>In<BR>Action<P>Here's another one I thought of;<BR>Krappy<BR>Independent<BR>Auto<P>AK Buickman, BCA #1955 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2002 Share Posted January 13, 2002 Skyking - No. Read the first post. It compares the new Kia acronym to the old Buick acronym. It related to Buicks (in a buick forum) and was a sarcastic joke about the audacity of a foreign manufacturer using 'GSX' on a new car. We are still talking about cars here so banning someone would be stuipd. I actually like seeing an odd subject post thrown in between endless Skylark and GS and torque ball posts. People's responses are interesting. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted January 13, 2002 Share Posted January 13, 2002 Kid4Speed, I still disagree, I could care less what Kia or any other foreign company names their cars. None of them ever or will ever come up with an original idea of their own. They have all been stealing copyrights for years, but God forbid if anyone in this country should ever complain. If you read at the top of these forums it states: COLLECTABLE AUTOMOBILE DISCUSSION FORUM and that's what it sould be..PERIOD!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted January 13, 2002 Share Posted January 13, 2002 Skyking- I agree that with rare exception (original Nissan Z car, Acura NSX) no Asian car will or could ever be considered collectible. Thought to ponder- the hotly discussed car of today will likely be the hot collector car of tomorrow. Who would have thought Mustangs, 57 Chevys or Camaros, all mediocre cars that were produced by the millions but got a lot of press when new, would have become the hot collectibles that they are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Chapman Posted January 13, 2002 Share Posted January 13, 2002 I think there are a number of Japanese cars that have/will have collector interest. Beyoond the original Z and NSX, I'd nominate the following:<P>Datsun 1600 and 2000 roadsters. The 2000 was a particularly hot performer.<P>Mazda rotary coupes, especially the last RX7<P>1975-6 Toyota Corolla Liftback. Classic styling and excellent performance at under a third the price of the Volvo 1800ES<P>300ZX Turbo/TwinTurbo<P>Toyota Land Cruisers FJ40 series, FJ30/50/70 series<P>Datsun 510 2 dr sedan and wagon. The sedan in particular allowed a lot of folks to get into SCCA racing on a budget<P>1965-68 Datsun 1600 pickup. First successfully marketed mini-pickup<P>1978 Toyota Crown Sedan. Elegant precursor to the Lexus series<P>1968 Toyota 2000GT (MF10)<P>Just my list...<P>JMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2002 Share Posted January 13, 2002 John, it is true that there are collectibles among the Japanese cars, but they are ONLY collectable AMONG the Japanese cars! There is NO Japanese car that will EVER come close to American or European collectable automobiles. This is not my biased opinion, it is fact.<BR>Take a look at an "Old car price guide" you will see that the most sought after Japanese car is worth about as much as a strippo '66 Special. <BR>Pick up a "vintage" (they use the term loosely) motorcycle guide. The most sought after Japanese factory made street bike (there are a number of race bikes TZ250s and the like, that are worth a few bucks, but still, not much) are near worthless. The most valuable I believe is a Honda CBX6 (I believe that is the name) it is that sideways six cylinder they sold in the seventies. They are worth in MINT condition about $3500.00, about as much as the LEAST valuable V twin Harley (an "AMF" Sportster). Something like a Honda 305 Scramble ( I love'um) are worth about $1,500.00! Crap, I recently sold a bare Harley springer and a pair of driving lights for that! <BR>When it comes down to it, the Japanese can copy a product, sometimes improving and MARKET it like no other. They make a good product (with the car issue) to get a job done. But they will NEVER be collectable in the minds of auto collectors around the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2002 Share Posted January 13, 2002 By the way John......an NSX, a Datsun Roadster, Ok, even the 510 (deserves it just for the cult following) But a.....a......a.... 1975 TOYOTA CORLLOLA!!!! You have GOT to be kidding!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 MARTINSR, I'm still laughing at John's reply What a joke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 Oh Yea, buy the way, the Japanese don't MARKET their products, we do........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 <B><I>GODZILLA!!!</I></B> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 I GUESS SOME PEOPLE JUST DON'T GET IT..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Chapman Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 <B>Brian Martin:</B><P>I'll stand by my nomination of any of the Toyotas. The FJ (LandCruiser) series simply because it is one of the world's finest made of it's type. The specific Corolla Liftback because it was really nice looking, especially in the SE5 trim--this is the car in standard trim and uninspiring white:<P> <P><BR>As for the value issue... there is a lot of truth to what you say, although <I>if</I> you can find a 2000GT for sale, expect to pay $500K plus. The open sports cars and the Z cars are rapidly appreciating in value as restorable survivors dwindle in numbers due to crushers and rust. To put it in perspective, I'm sure you can remember when you could buy a complete and solid GranSport convertible for under $1000 and a very nice Skylark for $500 or less. There was even a time when an SJ Duesenburg could be had for $150 if you'd just take it off the back of the lot. My point is that in spite of the 'appliance' nature of most Japanese cars, there have been a few notable worthys.<P><B>SkyKing:</B><P>I'm glad you found humor in my post. I'll choose to accept the complement as opposed to the intent. Your protests of the Japanese stealing copyrights are not based in fact. Copying ideas, yes, but not stealing intellectual property. The Japanese have proven very adept at effectively converting our raw ideas into useful items that we Americans are willing to purchase by the shipload. They have put the best of American statistical analysis and production quality techniques to work for them (I invite your attention to the work of W. Edward Demming) when Detroit turned up a corporate nose at them. American auto makers were subsequently handed their butts in the sales department due to shoddy products and horrid fuel economy.<P>Not that this era of successfully commercializing products is the first time in history this has happened. We did it to the Brits with the jet engine and then the jet airliner. We did it to the Italians with Marconi's radio and developed networks (ABC and RKO). Two on an endless list.<P>We market the Japanese cars? You are kidding, right? They don't need our help, not in the least. If you've ventured far from Rhode Island, then you're aware that the whole world is rolling around in Japanese cars. And when you get to places where vehicle reliability is an issue of survival rather than convenience, you find a near complete lack of Detroit products in a field of Mitsubishi, Toyota, Isusu with the smattering of Rover and Peugeot products.<P><B>Dave@Moon:</B><P>OK, the Brat is in.... maybe we should add a Kaboda light tractor for KAD36 to ride to work? And I can belive the Yugo collector because there is a whole bunch of Trabant collectors, and that is a far sorrier automobile. There are also enthusiast groups for Edsel, the AMC Pacer, the Chevvy Vega (now <I>there</I> was the best Detroit could do for a small car? I see Vega vintage Japanese cars all the time... but when was the last time you saw a Vega (outisde of the occasional Cosworth Twin Cam at a car show)?<P>Enough... if it has wheels, I'll look for some redeeming quality....<P>Cheers,<BR>JMC<p>[ 01-14-2002: Message edited by: John Chapman ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 John, well said, but all I stated from the beginning is this is not a Kia forum. Maybe someday, somewhere in time, by someone other than me, will collect these cars you mentioned. Then, and only then, they can start a forum of there own. But for the time being, can we keep it Buick? Is that asking too much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 15, 2002 Share Posted January 15, 2002 John, Dave, I am sorry, my point on value DOES matter. That Yugo is NOT a collectable, it NEVER will be. I could collect hair balls, that doesn't make them "Collectibles." It just means that I am a mental case that collects hair balls. Some cars don't have a high value that are collectibles, a Crosley comes to mind. And someday "some" Japanese cars will be a collectable in the sense that it did something for the car movement. In SOME redeeming way. The "Z" car, brought sports cars to the masses (we won't go into how they gave them away to get a share of the market) The First Datsun pickups, they brought mini pickups to the market and changed the landscape for ever. Even the Brat, if not the wagon version, brought a mini SUV four wheel drive to the masses (though it didn't sell worth a diddly). All of these and others will have a "collectable" value. NOT a monetary value, but a "collectable" value to a small part of the population. They will be as they are now worthless by comparison. <BR>Why don't you do a little search on the net and find some forums dedicated to Yugos? How about Toyota Corollas? I know one thing this isn't the place. We can laugh at them here, but not have a serious discussion. I wouldn't think you could start a good thread on Huffy bicycles either. <BR>For every Valuable Japanese model like Toyota 2000GT there is a dozen Shelby Cobras (hell the 289 car is worth that, the 427 is twice as much)!<P>One thing to remember, "better" doesn't mean wanted or a collectable. That Toyota Corolla is a much better car than a '65 big block Vette, what which car is the collectable? <P>One thing I don't understand, how someone can get defensive over a subject that is a hundred miles from what this site stands for, BUICKS. <BR>I work on cars of every flavor each day, I can tell you with a total unbiased opinion which cars I think are best. <P>I HATE working on late model GM cars, Cadillacs are you kidding, I rather walk on hot coals. <P>Saturns are my favorite, I call them "Americas VW Bug." You never even have to think how something will come apart. Just use common sense and it is done. <P>Toyotas and Mercedes tie for second on my list. Mercedes are works of art, sometimes WAY over engineered, but beautifully done. <P>Recently I came very close to buying a Volvo 940 wagon, Decided on a Windstar instead. <BR>You see, I am not a Buick NAZI, but I don't think discussing my want of a Volvo would have gone over that well here (I did that over on the "Brick board") And if I did bring it up and was berated for it, I would understand.....this is a BUICK forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted January 15, 2002 Share Posted January 15, 2002 Two thoughts:<P>First, if the coopting of a great collectible car name by another manufacturer (regardless of it's country of origin)isn't "discussable" on a forum for people interested in the preservation and history of said marques, what the heck is???? I would be just as angry if there was a Ford factory in Mexico churning out "GSX's" accross the street from one of our great Mexican "Buick" plants! <P>Second, since when did we all buy into the idea that a car has to be worth money to <I>you</I> to be collectible to someone else? I had a neighbor in Pittsburgh who (and I'm not joking at all!) collected <B>Yugos!!!</B> {He had at least 11 that I know of!} Money, value guides, profiteering and greed (not to mention provincialism and snobbery) have been spoiling the fun that this hobby should be for <I>way</I> too many years. <P>And John, I think you should've included all years of the Subaru BRAT as a future collectible. <P>(and lets not bring up the 1977 and up (Isuzu)Buick/Opel, shall we!) <p>[ 01-14-2002: Message edited by: Dave@Moon ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK Buickman Posted January 16, 2002 Share Posted January 16, 2002 RE: Buick GSX vs. KIA GSX--<P>There has never been another real Elvis!<BR> (has anyone seen Elvis in a KIA lately?)<P>There has never been another group The Beatles!<P>There has never been another real Frank Sinatra!<P>There has never been another REAL GSX, Buick style!<P>Remember: Imitators cannot exactly match the real thing<P>AK Buickman............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted January 16, 2002 Share Posted January 16, 2002 I give up. Martin's right. Value does matter.<P>I'm throwing away all my Buick stuff and buying Chevys from now on! <P>p.s. Thanks AKBuickman for getting my point in the first place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86 2dr.ltd Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 I really wanted to stay away from this but its hard to keep my mouth shut.<P>Many good points made here!<P>I'd say welcome back Dave but now I'm not sure. Figures it be you to get everyone all stirred. Havent seen this much excitement since.....well your last post. Welcome back!<P>Using previous popular and significant names in bull., but when I think of GTO the car that comes to mind was not made in this country! <P>We once had a 75 710 Coupe (L20B) that kicked butt and was good looking. Would not have minded saving one. How about the early Celicas? VW Pickup, Mazda RX4,Mits 2000GT, firsts of the Toyota 4 wheel drives. The list can go on. Full size Buicks and Oldsmobiles dont sell for big bucks anywhere. Is my 86 LeSabre collectable? Do I care? Why'd anyone want to keep a Metropolitian? Dont know, but I'm glad some did.<P>The original post was Buick related very much so!<P>Everyone is so edgy on these things because we feel the future of the Companys that made some of our favorite cars is in jeopardy. When some strangely FRUITY named car company uses an old designating that meant something great it confirms the impending tragedy.<P>But fear not! If you buy a new Oldsmobile you can "keep America going"! right straight to hell!!!!!!!<P>Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 "I'm throwing away all my Buick stuff and buying Chevys from now on!" <P>Dave, don't do that! Then I would have to deal with you over on the Classic Chevelle board too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuickNut Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 Ok - here I GO ....guess I too am VERY pro "Buy and Drive American"....I just went to the Auto Show and was impressed (at times...) with what is being put out and what is on the boards (...also horrified !!). Guess its hard to stay so loyal to companies (big 2 and little 1) that are American (??) yet you can't tell if the car your buying is money in the American Auto Workers pocket...or a Mexican worker, etc But to get on the subject - it is laughable that a foreign make is using older American monikers for their badging...again a bit of copy cating and not being original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 DeLorean didn't just steal "GTO" when he was running Pontiac. Even if you can call "Grand Prix" an "American" name, the subseries' names SJ and SSJ were stolen from Duesenberg. <P>At least Chrysler buys out a company before it starts appropriating their names (Concorde, Spirit, Eagle...).<P>The GSX thing really stuck me because it is so definitively "Buick". Worse, the badge similarity leads me to believe the coopting of the name was intentional. The yellow hue used for the "X" is also highly reminicent of the (real) GSX's color scheme. <P>Like "Cobra" and "DeVille", GSX is a model that is not only well known, but of note in automotive history. Why didn't somebody just steal "Skyhawk" or "T1000" (or anyone of a hundred other names lost to history)? I think it is because they wouldn't have had the subliminal positive boost that Kia gains every time a non- or semi-automotive savvy person sees one of these cars. <P>DeLorean caught hell (to a certain small extent) for appropriating older names for his cars. Ford was trounced when it tried (too soon) to abscond with "SS" & "RS". I hope there is a way for GM to have Kia pay the piper for stealing "GSX". Maybe they might consider re-using the name themselves on a dream car, stealing Kia's thunder. Let's hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 HUNGRY? OUT of WORK? Eat your KIA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 After the Beretta firearms debacle GM went thru in the early 90s (hot on the heels of their own copyright infringement lawsuits against certain reproduction parts companies), I doubt you'll see the General go after a minor player car company with a copyright infringement suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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