Rata Road Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 I stumbled over a motoring couple today having trouble on the first drive of a new purchase, a stunning 37 Buick 8 completely original running gear but fully restored. When running there is no charge showing on the amp meter, nothing changes when the regulator is tapped and with lights on there is no increase in head light brightness from idle to a rev (i.e Its not charging). I tapped the dash amp meter and it shot up to charging and head lights confirmed it was charging however now there is no charge again. This charging coming and going has been happening all the time on their drive. Tapping the gauge doesn't fix it now. Is there anywhere you suggest I could look for the cause of this. Obviously the generator is working. I have cleaned the terminals on the regulator. I see there is what looks like a condenser on the generator? I put a digital volt meter over the generator when motor was running but that read zero, that was before I tapped the amp meter and got it charging correctly. Generators don't go then fail at will in my experience but maybe the condenser thing can cause this? Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 The condenser is PROBABLY a "noise filter" for the radio. Tapping the amp gauge and it working indicates, to me, a bad connection or a bad gauge. Try the volt meter at the battery. Ben 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Step 1 would appear to be removing and cleaning the leads on the ammeter--with battery disconnected of course. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Also carefully check the tag ends on the wires. Have seen them only connect when they wanted to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60s GM Fan Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Gen might need work. Here there's a company called Genco who does amazing work. Back east there was a shop in Springfield VA that redid my 37 Lasalle gen. If it needs a redo I'd recommend those two places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 10 minutes ago, 60s GM Fan said: Gen might need work. Here there's a company called Genco who does amazing work. Back east there was a shop in Springfield VA that redid my 37 Lasalle gen. If it needs a redo I'd recommend those two places. I doubt if OP will send it there from New Zealand.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Advice so far is spot on. Condenser is for radio interference. If tapping the ammeter does it, cleaning up those connections would be job 1. If cleaning the connections doesn't fix it, on a 1937 it would be good to post what voltage regulator you have. The most important detail would be how many terminals it has, three, four, or five. Also what model generator. Pictures might be good of the regulator, and the generator tag. The model number of the regulator might be good too if you can see it, and if the regulator is Delco, the number might be stamped near a mounting bolt hole. Buick "updated" or superseded the regulator to something completely different at least a couple of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rata Road Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 There is 3 spare regulators but with different amounts of terminals. This has 3 under and 2 on top = 5 in total Might try the amp gauge connections before they head off. Its middle winter here, thick fog and icy roads so they really wants to be able to use the lights for safety. Thanks so much for you quick feedback guys. I post if it works later.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937 Buick 66C Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Good Day, I concur with Grimy; Symptoms are indicative of an issue with the ammeter or its connections. Everything electrical, excluding the starter and horn, passes through the ammeter. Disconnect the battery, then clean the ammeter terminals and wire connectors. Check and verify that the connector-to-wire attachment on each wire is secure and is in good condition. A failure of the ammeter itself will also cause charging (and other electrical) problems. You might want to try to "jump" the ammeter posts with a heavy gauge wire, effectively taking the ammeter out of the circuit. While jumped, check for charging voltage at the battery when the engine is off-idle. Voltage regulator: The 5-pole regulator is original for these cars. There is an additional cutout coil in this relay that interrupts current to the starter when the generator is charging. These regulators are unreliable. On cars that are in regular use, these have typically been replaced with a more conventional 3-pole regulator. There is a simple wiring modification required to adapt from the 5-pole to 3-pole regulator. I can provide the diagram to you directly via email; This forum will not allow me to attach the filetype to this thread. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rata Road Posted July 20 Author Share Posted July 20 Great feedback and yes can you please email me that diagram. Can you just select that or do I need to post my email address on here? I got him started this morning with a new 6v battery, he wanted to head off before the highway got closed again due to accidents in the Ice and fog so they left without the battery charging. I drove an escort for him to get past the black ice patches then off they went. About 40 mins on the drive it began charging again so looks like they will make it home today. Was a great experience working on such a lovely car. Thanks again 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 11 hours ago, Rata Road said: About 40 mins on the drive it began charging again... Good news/bad news, I guess. Good that it started working; that seems to say it's nothing serious (e.g., bad armature or field windings). Bad news is that it really needs to stop working again before the problem can be isolated with certainty. Fortunately, most of the suggestions so far are good to do anyway and may provide a hint as to where the root cause lies. I would pull the generator and inspect the brushes and commutator. It could be as simple as worn or sticking brushes and a dirty commutator. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rata Road Posted July 20 Author Share Posted July 20 The owner will get it to the right people now that he his home. I'm looking forward to finding out the cause. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 4 hours ago, Rata Road said: The owner will get it to the right people now that he his home. I'm looking forward to finding out the cause. They were fortunate to run into you on their travels. I LOVE the photos that you posted of the car. You said there was thick fog and icy roads, but a picture is truly worth 1K words! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rata Road Posted July 21 Author Share Posted July 21 They had bad luck as they flew to Christchurch and purchased the car. They drove for a few hours and noticed it had stopped charging, then they got a puncture, no wheel brace in the car so called the AA. They changed it and found the spare only had 12 psi so pumped that up. A while later driving in Fog with the lights on and off it run out of battery power. AA called and trucked them to my town. The local AA garage couldn't get the Optima battery to take charge so called me to see if I could help since I have a few old cars. I was glad to help out and while trying to charge the Optima we drained the Rad and filled with anti freeze, checked all the wheel nuts, I gave them a wheel brace for the trip home, we pumped up all the tyres, all 4 were about 20 psi and the 2nd spare had zero air. I managed to get a friend to bring up a new ordinary 6v battery from town overnight. I gave them a white light for the front and 2 rear blinking pushbike lights for the rear the next day for safety as it wasn't charging again, then I drove in front of them on the main road for 25 mins to get through the thickest fog and black ice then off they went heading home. I enjoyed working on the Buick, I almost bought one a month ago (1930 6 cylinder) but bought a 30 Chev instead. Here is a short clip before the Buick hit the highway (note I changed the white flicking light on the front to staying on solid before they left) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 FYI, if an Optima drops below 6.0V you (or they) will need to connect it in parallel with another 6V battery (can be wet cell) that's above 6.1 or so and charge for about 6 hrs. When the Optima reads 6.1 or so by itself, then it can be charged alone. The foregoing works on about 2/3 of deeply discharged Optimas in my experience. Again from my experience, that's the only downside to Optimas--don't let them get below 6.1 or certainly not below 6.0V. I've used Optimas exclusively for 20 yrs and they are great for underseat/underfloor installation because they never need water or cleaning off corrosion. They also hold a charge really well overwinter without a tender. Great respect to you for helping them so well as you did! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rata Road Posted July 22 Author Share Posted July 22 Thanks Grimy. That explain it as it was zero output when I started. I might have to try the parallel charge trick. Thanks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 1 minute ago, Rata Road said: Thanks Grimy. That explain it as it was zero output when I started. I might have to try the parallel charge trick. Thanks De nada, amigo, hope yours is among the 2 out of 3 that it works on! But the sooner the better.... A really discharged Optima will not take a lasting charge by itself -- until it is about 6.1 as a standalone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rata Road Posted July 22 Author Share Posted July 22 It was dead flat for maybe 20hrs and read 0v. Not having any experience with Optima I charged with a normal old fashioned battery charger for 6 hrs. Managed to get it from 0v to 5.79v. Then I left it on a modern pulse charger for 14hrs and got it up to 6.0v. Had a new normal battery delivered and the Buick left Saturday morning. I left it on the pulse another 24 hrs. After reading your post today I went out to do the parallel charge thing but first I did a load test on it and it showed strong. Put a voltmeter on after that and it was 6.33v so just put it back on pulse charger. Might be lucky! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 4 hours ago, Rata Road said: It was dead flat for maybe 20hrs and read 0v. Not having any experience with Optima I charged with a normal old fashioned battery charger for 6 hrs. Managed to get it from 0v to 5.79v. Then I left it on a modern pulse charger for 14hrs and got it up to 6.0v. Had a new normal battery delivered and the Buick left Saturday morning. I left it on the pulse another 24 hrs. After reading your post today I went out to do the parallel charge thing but first I did a load test on it and it showed strong. Put a voltmeter on after that and it was 6.33v so just put it back on pulse charger. Might be lucky! Buy a lottery ticket immediately! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rata Road Posted July 22 Author Share Posted July 22 Buick guys are much more helpful than the Chev guys. I posted for help looking up an engine number for my 1930 AD, not a single reply. Thanks for all your help Kevin 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 Let the battery stand for a few days and then re-check the voltage, just to be sure it's holding... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rata Road Posted July 23 Author Share Posted July 23 Ok will. Its been on a ordinary pulse charger for 30 odd hours non stop and it finally is reading fully charged this morning so I will leaving for 2 days then test again. Thanks again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rata Road Posted August 11 Author Share Posted August 11 After leaving it alone for several days then later testing I believe I saved this battery. I don't have it in my possession anymore but it tested well with a crank amp tester even after 8 30 sec load tests. Who knows, time will tell. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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