All White Tires- Years?

[Kblake]

Having a discussion with my friends and we were wondering what are the start and end years that automobiles were actually being sold with all white rubber tires?

 

Coker's website says that by 1919 all tire manufactures had switched to black rubber. I know they used all white tires around the 1910 era, but not finding any information when manufactures stopped selling cars with all white rubber tires. This 1918 Buick Advertisement is still showing their vehicles with all white rubber, which would be very close to Coker's stated 1919. So, what year did all white rubber tires start and end? Anyone have any documentation on this topic?

 

 

[ABear]

Not sure you will get any definitive answers, the early yrs of tires were filled with all kinds of experimental tires from white (natural gum color) to red to black, black with white sidewalls plus you had leather, cloth or other materials..

 

Black tires one out due to the inclusion of carbon black in the rubber which stabilized the rubber, increased strength and the result was a tire that had longer life better wear characteristics.

[Rusty_OToole]

An old timer told me the tires were never white,when new  they were light gray, and faded to a dull white over time. Or show up white in old photos.

[wayne sheldon]

Several years ago, there was a good discussion on this subject on the MTFCA forum. I had it bookmarked on my computer, but about a year later a partial meltdown of my computer erased over a thousand such book marks and I haven't found that old discussion since. I spent many (hundred or more?) hours searching for a lot of lost items that I wanted to be able to reference. Found a lot of them, but not that one.

White tires, on model T Fords at least, went later than one might think, at least 1923 on some model Ts.

Part of the discussion (totally from my memory!) was how official Ford factory photos of cars always had black tires on them. Ford of course wanted "official" photos of the cars to show them in their "best light", all up-to-date and smart looking. However, production line photos were a bit more random rather than set up. So, as it happens, some production line photos of the 1920s show cars being assembled with white tires.

 

 

The new style four door sedan was introduced in very late 1922. So this car for all practical purposes is a 1923 car.

 

The 1924 style coupe also appears to have white tires.

 

And one assembly line photo I did find, a 1924 model chassis.

 

So I would say white tires were still in use a bit later than 1919.

 

[wayne sheldon]

In fairness, and for whatever it is worth? That assembly line photo does appear to be a set up. I don't know the story behind it, and don't have notes on where I gathered it. The numbers down in the corner indicate it was an official factory photo of some sort (perhaps the Benson Ford archive could identify it?).

I suspect that this is the official ten millionth model T Ford (a touring car) being assembled. My reason for believing this, is that the engine is not the standard production colors which was a blackish wash (not really painted) originally. Also, things like the intake manifold and generator were painted black.

Original era photos of the ten millionth car show it with white tires. Was that done special for the ten millionth car? Maybe. But that is why I also showed the 1924 coupe, a typical production car of the same year.

Regardless, numerous other photos of 1923 and 1924 model Ts show them with white tires. So, special assembly set up or not? White tires were still on new cars. At least on Fords.

 

[prewarnut]

FWIW I have access to a number of factory Locomobile photos from the mid to late 19-teens which clearly show all white (or light grey colored rubber). I can't comment on the outer limit on this date-wise though.

 

[Steve Moskowitz]

I have owned and restored several brass cars as old as 1903.  I would have thought this tire issue would have brought more discussion and as reluctant as I am to post I have been watching this thread hoping some other thoughts' would be presented.  Some time in the 80's I began to see references to early tires being grey due to the absence of carbon black.  As this became more known, Coker at least came out with several sizes of grey tires.  It appears to me that pure white tires MAY not have been offered and are a more modern phenomenon.  I am NOT a tire expert but just recall conversations and info with the tire guys as I made my choices in tire purchases.  All this for what it is worth!  It sure does not help the OP's question though but we are trying to research that here as it is interesting but not sure we will find anything definitive.  If we do I will post it.

[ABear]

Something to consider, vintage period photos were B&W, lighting and exposure settings of camera and dark room equipment could easily make grey tires like more like white especially when contrasted with dark paint colors typical of that period..

 

So, unless you are old enough to have personally seen the white tires from the early 1900's there is a good chance they would have been more of a natural gum rubber color which would take on a grey/yellow look without the carbon black. And in B&W photos that would show as a shade of grey to white depending on camera settings.

[Walt G]

I agree with all that Steve states. In the early 1970s I was the full time librarian for Henry Austin Clark ( there was only one other to hold that position - Gordon Ayer who was the librarian in the 1950s very early 1960s after Austin moved to Glen Cove, NY and added the 25 x 30 foot or so addition to the  west end of his house) and we had a similar question as to white /light gray tires. He had an extensive library of period material ( when it was donated to the Henry Ford it took a tractor trailer loaded to remove it all) I recall looking through period magazines as well as literature ( published both in the USA and Europe) and not much was ever discussed in there about that or photos shown when new. All white tires.........well I lean more to the grey color .

[ABear]

To illustrate what B&W photos can do to skew perception of conversion from color to B&W, here is a photo that I cropped that our Daughter took a few yrs ago in one of her photography classes which used 35MM B&W film and film camera. Note, this is not color film to B&W or color digital to digital B&W.

 

For reference, the jacket is dark blue, the T shirt is GREY, the pants are very faded light blue jeans, the shoes are WHITE, the body of vehicle is dark green.

 

You will notice that there is very little difference between the white shoes and the grey T shirt, the grey T shirt could be mistaken for WHITE.

[TAKerry]

I just did a quick search and what I read was that natural rubber tires were an off white, and zinc oxide was added for some reason which made them white? We had a 1913 British motorcycle restored a number of years ago and after seeing a thousand old Harleys with white tires I was a bit disappointed to see that black tires were installed on our bike. The logic was that by that time European motocycles were not using white tires, only black. That is all I know of the subject. Not sure if anyone can verify one way or another.

[ABear]

Quick read here..

 

https://www.capitalone.com/cars/learn/finding-the-right-car/the-reason-why-tires-are-black/2775

 

Highlights from article..

 

"Automotive tires are black because they contain carbon black. For more than a century, tire manufacturers have added this powdery oil-, coal-, or gas-derived substance to their rubber compounds, turning the naturally off-white substance black.

Carbon black acts as a catalyst during the vulcanization process, which turns soft rubber into the more durable and elastic substance we use in automotive tires and elsewhere.

 

As with many elements of history, how carbon black was first introduced to tires isn't entirely clear. Adding carbon black to tires may have started with Sidney Charles Mote, a chemist for England's India Rubber Company, who in 1904 discovered its value as a reinforcing agent in rubber. Other reports credit BFGoodrich Company chemist George Oenslager for this discovery, saying that the India Rubber Company used carbon black in tires primarily for coloring but didn't initially realize its potential for increasing abrasion resistance.

BFGoodrich started churning out carbon-black-rich tires around 1912.

 

Previous to the discovery of carbon black's impact on rubber's durability, zinc oxide was the industry-standard tire-reinforcing additive. Then World War I broke out, and the compound grew scarce because nations needed zinc — a key component of brass — for munitions.

 

Tire manufacturers needed to come up with something else to strengthen their rubber, and carbon black was the obvious answer. Since it proved superior to zinc oxide in many ways, it became a permanent ingredient in automotive rubber formulations.

 

Whitewall tires were actually conceived as a cost-cutting measure. Applying carbon black only to the tread surface saved pennies, and left the sidewalls in their natural, off-white state."

[TAKerry]

I have heard stories about shortages from the war having something to do with the colour of the tires but I thought it pertained to the rubber, not the zinc oxide, interesting.