Is it really that difficult to find a local mechanic that's willing to work on these older cars?

[Turbinator]

9 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

It is all in knowing the basics at the simplest level.

Bob, my opinion is the same as yours regarding basics. I'm the student forever trying to master the basics in any new skill I want to learn.

I've marveled at the general physical science some of the best mechanics know. Those mechanics demonstrate how the thing works. Use of a multimeter is helpful in determining why your battery is dead. Simple stuff Ive had to learn. HVAC in my 63 Riv was a dead end getting someone to fix my AC. A local repair shop stole my money for purported AC service. It took 4-5 seasons to get cold air on my repair. I did all the replacement work with finishing help from the gents on the forum. Great instruction by phone and email. I stayed with R12 and original equipment with some work around. Measurable expense on replacement parts, hose rebuild, tools, and some paid labor from the best mechanics known in the ROA. 

I learned a lot by reading the service manual and a lot from mechanics that showed where the service manual was wrong. One gent in the know said you could test for leaks in the AC system with compressed air. For him he knows limits, for me Im not introducing anything but dry nitrogen to test for leaks. The same mechanic that uses compressed air to test for leaks in automotive AC told me the AC system in the 63 Riv needs 4lbs plus a few ounces. The 63 Service manual for the Riviera is 3.5 lbs of R12. The system takes 4 lbs plus of R12. Basics for the pros are evident. Basics for automotive to me, the DIY’er, are amazing to learn. 

Thank you for your comments.

Turbinator

 

[EmTee]

9 hours ago, BobinVirginia said:

I’m hoping to retire early and do jobs just like this for certain people. Basic classic car service and repair with no long term restoration work.

My neighbors have figured-out that I have a couple of cars and some tools.  No other antiques or classics, but I occasionally help-out with their daily-drivers.

[60FlatTop]

Today's automotive mechanics and shops can be put into a position where they are bound to base a repair on the OBD code.

 

This is from the NYS Department of Motor Vehicles consumer's bill of rights:

 

The "Consumer's Bill Of Rights"

Under the Repair Shop Act, you have the following rights when dealing with a repair shop:

"Written Estimate

If you request it, the repair shop must give you a written estimate of the parts and labor necessary for each specific repair. The shop may charge a reasonable fee for developing a written estimate, but the labor charge for an estimate may not exceed the shop's usual hourly labor charge.

The estimate must list each part and its cost, and show what parts, if any, are either used or not of original quality. It must show the labor charges for each repair and by what method they are calculated. The shop may not charge more than the estimated price without your permission."

 

P04xxx codes display a suggested problem. That would be the basis of step one, estimate of the repair. The code detail may not be the actual problem. I have been studying computer based engine control for a few years. I have College level text books ranging from the mid-1980s ALDL to recent and I subscribe to an online computerized engine training channel, as well as maintaining subscriptions to ALLDATA.com for my 21st century cars. Every source emphatically recommends a full diagnosis of the issue and warns that simply reading the code does not replace a full diagnostic. The regulators specifying a full estimate up front are misled. Old men who sit on couches and say all the young mechanics just read the computer are equally misled. But the mechanic may be pushed into that perception  by regulation.

 

I have a P0420 code on my '05 Cadillac STS, bank 2 catalytic converter inefficiency. Believe me, I worked hard to make sure I was not spending $1,000 on a new cat needlessly. There was deeper testing. A licensed shop in NYS may have risked my money to comply.

 

Real mechanics in my family have taken their talent elsewhere due to regulations and business practices.

 

I will continue to study and maintain the knowledge I need. That osmosis by the hour has never worked well for me. Too many unanswered questions.

Edited July 24 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[EmTee]

6 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

A licensed shop in NYS may have risked my money to comply

True, but there's nothing that says the final invoice can't be less than the initial estimate.  I agree that the state regulation essentially mandates that the estimate is a 'not to exceed' cost.

[cquisuila]

I have this riviera 1966 since 12/2020. And i live in France.

 

For the moment I have managed to do without it because there are no major technical problems with my vehicle.

 

The difficulty for me is to find a real mechanic and good mechanic.

I agree with the people who say.

Changing total electronic climate with a new is easier and less time-consuming than changing a gearbox gear !

and it makes a lot more money💍

 

So if I had a big problem (engine or gearbox for example) I would try to understand using the Internet, work manual...

I will probably ask for help from my neighbor who, like me, is passionate about old mechanics.

 

But don't know how to do bodywork body painting; fortunately painters exist,even if it is very expensive....

My car need new paint and it will cost me $3200...🙄

 

Garages have no use for these old cars  unless they come across an enthusiast person !

Or there are garages that charge exorbitant prices and are dedicated to rich people unfortunately.

It is not enough profit and a lot of time and some garages take advantage of this challenge to line their pockets.

 

And as many people say, working on these cars is not that complicated.

But in the all-electric era, it will become increasingly rare to be able to do so except for the rich. sic....😒

 

I know I took a big risk buying this car.BUT WE ONLY HAVE ONE LIFE !

 

and keeping automotive heritage alive isn’t bad, right?

 

 

Edited July 26 by cquisuila (see edit history)

[EmTee]

I suggest you talk to @sebastienbuick who is active on this forum and also lives in France.  He is restoring his 1969 Electra 225.  He may have in-country contacts for parts and mechanical service.

[edinmass]

21 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

Today's automotive mechanics and shops can be put into a position where they are bound to base a repair on the OBD code.

 

This is from the NYS Department of Motor Vehicles consumer's bill of rights:

 

The "Consumer's Bill Of Rights"

Under the Repair Shop Act, you have the following rights when dealing with a repair shop:

"Written Estimate

If you request it, the repair shop must give you a written estimate of the parts and labor necessary for each specific repair. The shop may charge a reasonable fee for developing a written estimate, but the labor charge for an estimate may not exceed the shop's usual hourly labor charge.

The estimate must list each part and its cost, and show what parts, if any, are either used or not of original quality. It must show the labor charges for each repair and by what method they are calculated. The shop may not charge more than the estimated price without your permission."

 

P04xxx codes display a suggested problem. That would be the basis of step one, estimate of the repair. The code detail may not be the actual problem. I have been studying computer based engine control for a few years. I have College level text books ranging from the mid-1980s ALDL to recent and I subscribe to an online computerized engine training channel, as well as maintaining subscriptions to ALLDATA.com for my 21st century cars. Every source emphatically recommends a full diagnosis of the issue and warns that simply reading the code does not replace a full diagnostic. The regulators specifying a full estimate up front are misled. Old men who sit on couches and say all the young mechanics just read the computer are equally misled. But the mechanic may be pushed into that perception  by regulation.

 

I have a P0420 code on my '05 Cadillac STS, bank 2 catalytic converter inefficiency. Believe me, I worked hard to make sure I was not spending $1,000 on a new cat needlessly. There was deeper testing. A licensed shop in NYS may have risked my money to comply.

 

Real mechanics in my family have taken their talent elsewhere due to regulations and business practices.

 

I will continue to study and maintain the knowledge I need. That osmosis by the hour has never worked well for me. Too many unanswered questions.

 

When I had my modern repair shop, we NEVER would take a scan tool reading as accurate. We always used a DVOM to test the faulty sensor. Cat efficiency codes have always been a problem, espicially as they keep adding feedback into the PCM. Half the times it's a bad ground causing the problem. Similar to the Honda's with a hunting idle............people start to change out parts guessing at the problem.........in the end, on a Honda a coolent system making positive voltage will dump over into the computer system causing the issue. Toss in an alka seltzer into the radiator, toss on the cap and run. Issue resolves in less than a minute. Nothing or important today or back in the old days than a correct diagnostic procedure. 

 

 

 

 

[60FlatTop]

"In other words" the regulator requires a diagnosis prior to the start of work. That is the flawed logic a shop or mechanic has to follow before they start the job.

 

My 420 code is one example of many, many codes. Each could be discussed at great length. The problem is that a rule called an "Act" is a law. And the law implies that the shop or owner act in ignorance of full knowledge of the diagnosis.

 

I would not be willing to work on anything under those terms.

[sebastienbuick]

7 hours ago, cquisuila said:

I am this riviera 1966 since 12/2020. And i live in France.

 

For the moment I have managed to do without it because there are no major technical problems with my vehicle.

 

The difficulty for me is to find a real mechanic and good mechanic.

I agree with the people who say.

Changing total electronic climate with a new is easier and less time-consuming than changing a gearbox gear !

and it makes a lot more money💍

 

So if I had a big problem (engine or gearbox for example) I would try to understand using the Internet, work manual...

I will probably ask for help from my neighbor who, like me, is passionate about old mechanics.

 

But don't know how to do bodywork body painting; fortunately painters exist,even if it is very expensive....

My car need new paint and it will cost me $3200...🙄

 

Garages have no use for these old cars  unless they come across an enthusiast person !

Or there are garages that charge exorbitant prices and are dedicated to rich people unfortunately.

It is not enough profit and a lot of time and some garages take advantage of this challenge to line their pockets.

 

And as many people say, working on these cars is not that complicated.

But in the all-electric era, it will become increasingly rare to be able to do so except for the rich. sic....😒

 

I know I took a big risk buying this car.BUT WE ONLY HAVE ONE LIFE !

 

and keeping automotive heritage alive isn’t bad, right?

 

 

 

4 hours ago, EmTee said:

I suggest you talk to @sebastienbuick who is active on this forum and also lives in France.  He is restoring his 1969 Electra 225.  He may have in-country contacts for parts and mechanical service.

 

Hello, I know cquisuila, we have already discussed on an American car forum in France . 
Here near where I live there are several garages that I know that work on old cars (American, European, etc.).
To find a good garage that works on vintage cars, the solution ( often ) is to go to vintage car exhibitions. At vintage car shows there are often garages that advertise their garage and we can chat with them and go see them at work to show them what we want to do to our cars