Carter AFB questions

[MrAG Riv]

Hello Gentlemen,

 

I have just done my first rebuild of a Carter AFB (second carb in 53 years 😮‍💨) . Two questions. 
 

1. should there be a boot that cover the accelerator pump to prevent debris from entering the pump cylinder? See picture. 

2. PO had three layers of gaskets under carb starting from the intake up with smiley face fiber, metal, then square fiber. Square fiber is soaked in fuel. What gaskets and sequence is correct/optimal for a 65 401? 
 

 

Thank you in advance for your guidance. 
 

Andrew

[XframeFX]

49 minutes ago, MrAG Riv said:

first rebuild of a Carter AFB (second carb in 53 years

Andrew, good you DIY'd your AFB. I farmed mine out to local talent. His only attribute was that he had an ultra-sonic cleaner. For what he charged me, no big deal to purchase one and throw in a NAPA kit followed with silver spray paint.

 

Lots of dialogue on 4-BBL mounting if you search this Forum. You have the correct steel shim but incorrect "smiley gasket". In Summary, only two items: 1) Correct smiley gasket on the intake. 2) Steel shim stacked on the gasket. Then the AFB directly on that shim.

Further, if you plug the two holes, you can use conventional 4-throat gaskets.

I believe my final configuration has the shim sandwiched between a smiley gasket beneath and conventional gasket on top.

[RivNut]

Fiber gasket on intake manifold - this exposes the horse shoe channel to the crossover n the manifold. Next is the stainless steel gasket, it is exposed to heat in the crossover channel.  The carburetor sits on the stainless gasket.  It gets hot from contact with the stainless gasket but the aluminum body of the AFB is not exposed to the corrosive exhaust gasses.  

[MrAG Riv]

Man, I love this community within this forum. Thank you for the rapid replies. I will complete the mounting of carb after dinner. 
 

Andrew

[carbking]

And no dust boot on the accelerator pump shaft.

 

Why the electric choke???

 

Jon

[carbking]

Here is the correct "smiley face" gasket:

 

Carter number 1A-119

GM 1173796

 

Jon

[RivNut]

26 minutes ago, carbking said:

And no dust boot on the accelerator pump shaft.

 

Why the electric choke???

 

Jon

@carbking Jon,  I need a kit #859 for a 1964 Buick 425 with a Carter AFB.  I’ve rebuilt a couple of AFBs years ago, but did nothing to make the carburetor look good.  Are there any trade secrets you can reveal about restoration in addition to rebuilding?  Let me know the best way to get you the $$ for the kit.

Ed

Edited April 14 by RivNut (see edit history)

[carbking]

Ed - call during normal telephone hours (see signature) with MC/VISA.

 

An ultrasonic cleaner with Dawn dishwater soap will clean dirt and grease.

Automatic choke cleaner in a spray can from your FLAPS will clean carbon buildups.

An ultrasonic cleaner with Dawn dishwater soap will clean the residue from the auto choke cleaner.

 

If you want it to look new:

 

Totally disassemble the carburetor, blast with plastic media or crushed walnut shells, wash in the ultrasonic cleaner (blasting creates static electricity and "stuff" will accumulate in threaded holes).

Steel pieces may be sent to an electroplater (white zinc, white cad, yellow zine, or yellow cad were ALL used by Carter at the discretion of Howard Crown Plating Company). Or less expensive, paint the steel pieces with aluminum engine paint, and bake in a toaster oven at about 150 degrees F.

 

Jon

[RivNut]

17 minutes ago, carbking said:

Ed - call during normal telephone hours (see signature) with MC/VISA.

 

An ultrasonic cleaner with Dawn dishwater soap will clean dirt and grease.

Automatic choke cleaner in a spray can from your FLAPS will clean carbon buildups.

An ultrasonic cleaner with Dawn dishwater soap will clean the residue from the auto choke cleaner.

 

If you want it to look new:

 

Totally disassemble the carburetor, blast with plastic media or crushed walnut shells, wash in the ultrasonic cleaner (blasting creates static electricity and "stuff" will accumulate in threaded holes).

Steel pieces may be sent to an electroplater (white zinc, white cad, yellow zine, or yellow cad were ALL used by Carter at the discretion of Howard Crown Plating Company). Or less expensive, paint the steel pieces with aluminum engine paint, and bake in a toaster oven at about 150 degrees F.

 

Jon

I’ll call you in the next couple of days with a CC number and shipping information. Thanks.

[MrAG Riv]

1 hour ago, carbking said:

And no dust boot on the accelerator pump shaft.

 

Why the electric choke???

 

Jon

Hi Jon. Thank you re dust boot.
 

Previous owner switched to electric. One more item for me to add to the “make it correct” list. 

 

Andrew

[Jim Cannon]

16 hours ago, RivNut said:

@carbking Jon,  I need a kit #859 for a 1964 Buick 425 with a Carter AFB.  I’ve rebuilt a couple of AFBs years ago, but did nothing to make the carburetor look good.  Are there any trade secrets you can reveal about restoration in addition to rebuilding?  Let me know the best way to get you the $$ for the kit.

Ed

Ed, I bought a 15 Liter ultrasonic cleaner big enough to hold the AFB.  Huge. I use it for other carbs from other cars, too. It heats the cleaning solution and has 2 different ultrasonic patterns that it runs on a timer.

 

The AFB on my '63 was last done about 12 years ago, so I will probably pull it apart and clean it with the ultrasonic cleaner just to refresh it. These carbs have a number of very fine vent holes, bleed holes, etc. that don't do what they are supposed to do if they have gas residue, gum, varnish, etc. dried up in them. I picked up a few kits from NAPA a few years ago, so I'm in pretty good shape there.

 

I had a vacuum leak where previous owner did not use the stainless steel plate on the carb. When I added it, I sandwiched the stainless plate between two conventional gaskets, to ensure no vacuum leak. I also plugges the little crossover passage to keep heat off the base of the AFB. YMMV.

[RivNut]

Did you plug the crossover passage at the point where the intake manifold on the bottom and meets the head or at the top where the carburetor gaskets are?

[XframeFX]

1 hour ago, Jim Cannon said:

I picked up a few kits from NAPA a few years ago

What is the best kit? They are not very comprehensive. I'd want ALL parts if I'm going to the trouble. Hot Idle Compensator, Air Cleaner gaskets (for both sizes) and more parts not in these kits.

If I re-do my AFB, DIY this time and no silver spray can!

Restoring not good enough. Need to tune and optimize the stock AFB.

 

What about that unique DaytonaParts Float Valve?

[NTX5467]

Last time I knew about those kits, they were $15.00 or so.  Been a while . . .

 

Never had any issues with the stock stuff in my '67 Chrysler 383, with the stock AFB.  BTAIM  That carb did not have the secondary air valve, just nothing in the secondaries other than the throttle valves.  After I finessed the casting flash on the venturis and made sure everything was assembled "dead on", on an off-idle WOT throttle input, I could then feel a slight bog until the rpm got up a bit, proving my work was worthwhile.  First time I saw inside of an AFB, I wondered where all of the extra parts were, compared to a Holley 4bbl.

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[RivNut]

The very BEST kit that you can get is THE one designed specifically for your engine.  Our buddy @carbking is in the business of making unique kits for a particular engine.   My 1964 with the 425 and automatic transmission takes a different kit than a 425 Super Wildcat.  
 

www.thecarburetorshop.com

 

I’ve been fortunate enough to have John give me a tour of his shop.  Just the kits take up more storage space than most NAPA or other jobbers have for their entire store. That doesn’t count the space for the carburetors he keeps on hand.

[telriv]

I just bought 2 kits from my local NAPA jobber.

Are you sitting down.

They listed for $187.00 + each & cost me 107.00 + each.

 

Time for a change.

 

Tom T.

[XframeFX]

36 minutes ago, telriv said:

They listed for $187.00

Tom, Are we talking the same kit?

 

Echlin #25424, $57.09 CAD today:

[telriv]

Yes John,

 

I'm returning them.

 

Tom T.

[Jim Cannon]

5 hours ago, RivNut said:

Did you plug the crossover passage at the point where the intake manifold on the bottom and meets the head or at the top where the carburetor gaskets are?

At the top. With lead plugs that can be easily drilled out at some time in the future, if required.

 

[Jim Cannon]

1 hour ago, telriv said:

I just bought 2 kits from my local NAPA jobber.

Are you sitting down.

They listed for $187.00 + each & cost me 107.00 + each.

 

Time for a change.

 

Tom T.

RockAuto has a carb kit by Standard Motor Products for $35.

 

They have a Walker kit for $46.

 

NAPA is running a 20% off promotion today with the promo code TAXES20, for orders of $125+.  Order online, pick up from your local NAPA, or ship to you. No shipping charge of $35+.

 

 

Edited April 15 by Jim Cannon (see edit history)

[MrAG Riv]

Installed refurbished Carter and it’s running well. The accelerator pump was degraded, edges of plunger were ragged, and was causing a stumble from idle to 1/4 throttle or more. The new plunger wiper material looks very different, like pleather.

 

Next rebuild I will get a kit from Carbking. 
 

Engine bay remains a work in progress. 

 

 

Edited April 20 by MrAG Riv (see edit history)

[XframeFX]

3 hours ago, MrAG Riv said:

Installed refurbished Carter and it’s running well.

My rebuild made things worse. But then, I had my Power Brake Booster rebuilt at the same time. Too many variables. One-fix-at-one-time!

 

Engine bay looks great. Dual Circuit Brakes too.

Why no Variable Pitch hookup!

[MrAG Riv]

1 hour ago, XframeFX said:

My rebuild made things worse. But then, I had my Power Brake Booster rebuilt at the same time. Too many variables. One-fix-at-one-time!

 

Engine bay looks great. Dual Circuit Brakes too.

Why no Variable Pitch hookup!

This is the 65. I have reconnected the kickdown. PO installed the dual circuit brakes and for safety I will leave them. I treat this one like a nice driver that does a few cruise nights through the summer.