BryanFJ1 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Hello everyone, it's been a while So, since ventilation is not working in my car, i am willing to dig into the understanding of how everything works there. First of all - when i am turning the control knob - nothing is happening. Nothing is blowing. In my understanding there is gotta be a blower motor, which should be electrical? Question is where all the fuses and relays to it? The heat - in my understanding it should blow hot air after the thermostat is opened? The AC - im 100% it's leaking like crazy, BUT, the question is how to charge it in the modern world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanFJ1 Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 So i was running some test today, and figured out that the blower motor on the driver side is working, but the passenger side won't work. Tried to look for the wires for the passenger side blower motor but couldn't locate it anywhere... So the question is - how to access blower motors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 3 hours ago, BryanFJ1 said: So the question is - how to access blower motors Jack up the front end. Remove the tire. unbolt the inner fender panel. 6 hours ago, BryanFJ1 said: So, since ventilation is not working in my car, i am willing to dig into the understanding of how everything works there It is all vacuum controlled. A small vacuum hose comes from the engine, passes through the firewall and connects to the HVAC control. The HVAC control has 6-8(?) small vacuum hoses that go to various doors, valves and switches. For the SYSTEM to function correctly it needs to have all new vacuum hoses and each vacuum operated “servo” must be checked for function and possible leaks. (Most are spring loaded and need consistent non- leaking vacuum to stay open/closed). Doing this work involves A LOT of crawling under the dash and behind the inner fenders. 6 hours ago, BryanFJ1 said: The AC - im 100% it's leaking like crazy, BUT, the question is how to charge it in the modern world? The vacuum system is fixable with a lot of work. Making the A/C refrigeration function (and stay functional) will be a $2000-$3000 job. “Just needs a recharge” is a complete lie. The compressor and valves, and hoses and dryer are all 60 years old. They are rotten and guaranteed there are leaks EVERYWHERE! There is no possibility of any “repair” to the system. If you really want it to work it needs RESTORATION. New compressor, new (custom made) hoses, new expansion valve, new receiver-dryer, blowing out and flushing the system. Then reassembly with all new o-rings and copper sealing washers and oil. THEN it can be evacuated and you spend many hours chasing leaks finally recharging it with refrigerant. Anything less and the refrigerant will not stay in the system and it will not function. A long dormant refrigerant system just like a long parked engine that has had some water in it and is now stuck. PERHAPS you can free it up and MAYBE you can get it to start and run. You didn't pull the pan or change the filters, you didn't flush the oil or cooling system, but it "runs". Now, how far would you drive it? How fast would you drive it? Would you trust it to continue to run? An engine is a complex system and if it has not been cared for and stored well, it needs a total disassembly and rebuild. The same is true for an abandoned refrigeration system. Edited February 23 by m-mman (see edit history) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanFJ1 Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 A little update with current situation. So, figured out that the blower motor is not working on the passenger side, took it off just to realize that it was bad ground wire at the body. Both blower motors are working fine now. The heater cores were disconnected from the coolant system, so i connected them back and they are not leaking, which is making me think since the car was in the south part of California - they were just getting hot and you could feel the heat in summer coming from them? Now i want to test AC system. Trying to figure out how to test of it hold vacuum? Will brake bleader thing with the gauge work if ill connect it to the charging nipple? Oe there is some sort of a valve in there? How to charge it anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61polara Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Hi Bryan, welcome back. Test your AC system, you need an AC electric vacuum pump (or there used to be some that used compressed air to pull a vacuum). A hand pump will never pull the volume of air needed out of the system. Your system was a R-12 system which used a different fitting than the current R-134a systems. There were fitting to convert from the R-12 to R-134a fittings so a R-134a hose can connect from the compressor to the vacuum pump. NAPA used to carry these when everyone was converting R-12 systems to R-134a. Your Lincoln has manual valves on the top of the compressor. To open them, remove the other cap and you will find a shaft with a square end on it. When the shaft is turned all the way out, the charging port is closed and the line is open from the compressor to the line. Screw it half way in and it opens the port to the system for charging (or pulling a vacuum). Screwed all the way in, seals the line and the compressor can be removed without loosing the charge. To vacuum test the system, first connect a set of gauges to the system and see if there is any pressure in the system. then connect the vacuum pump to the compressor and open the valve and let the pump run for 5 minutes. Shut the pump off and see if it will hold vacuum. I would recommend finding an independent garage that would be willing to do this for you because of the cost of buying a vacuum pump and the lines and fittings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 On 2/22/2024 at 6:20 PM, BryanFJ1 said: The AC - im 100% it's leaking like crazy, BUT, the question is how to charge it in the modern world? Once you check to confirm your refrigerant has leaked out at this point you can use dry nitrogen to pressurize the system and check for leaks. If there is still pressure on the system the remaining refrigerant needs to be recovered properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Absolutely the best book. Buy it and read it. https://www.amazon.com/Just-Needs-Recharge-Mechanic-Conditioning/dp/0998950718/ref=asc_df_0998950718/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312031082787&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4444930090542397925&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032443&hvtargid=pla-491995004540&psc=1&mcid=39710fbe1fdc385fb4a03aea4883c448&gclid=Cj0KCQiA5-uuBhDzARIsAAa21T8g56-afe6PgnME_wfQBQu-kS58kCTK7m9z1Wtrw7ZL2As-zy01bVsaAvpcEALw_wcB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61polara Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Sent you a PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanFJ1 Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 (edited) A little bit of the topic, but here is some updates. So me and my guy were tearing everything apart today and figured these Trunk button was broken inside. Bought a small button that we have managed to put inside into the housing of the old button, so it's looks like original but it's actually brand new. Trunk is now opening. I was willing to take a radio off the car today, to do so i took the clocks off. There was something that snapped inside thus they weren't working. Solder it back and they are working just fine now. Figured out that the dashboard lights are working if you just connect the wire from the positive terminal straight to one of the side of the fuse in the power box. So we are trying to figure out where it's loosing the connection. So the radio giving me a huge headache. How these buttons should work? Like, some buttons are just getting stuck, some buttons when they are pushed they are releasing the buttons not the next one but the buttons over the next button. Why the station knob has a weird metal bar on the side with the screw in it? I removed the screw and now tuning knob is turning but just a little bit. In the car tuning knob wasn't turning anything. So we are thinking just to clean it, just ordered all new lamps for the radio, will change them, put it back together and buy some bluetooth board amplifier and just attach it to the bottom of the radio, also ordered 2 new speakers. So the old radio will use old speaker and the bluetooth will be attached to the 2 new speakers. The only thing is just to figure out where to put these speakers but i think the inside of the firewall has a lot of space to play around. Edited February 26 by BryanFJ1 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanFJ1 Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 20 hours ago, BryanFJ1 said: Figured out that the dashboard lights are working if you just connect the wire from the positive terminal straight to one of the side of the fuse in the power box. So we are trying to figure out where it's loosing the connection. Long story short, the lights switch wasn't working correctly. New one is like super expensive, so we just solder the headlight connector to the instrument lamps connector and now when you pull it to the headlight position - you have instrument light. The only thing that is still doesn't work - is backing lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanFJ1 Posted February 29 Author Share Posted February 29 Hi everyone! So let's get back to the subject. So i was reading the maintenance book and looking into on how to fix/recharge and do the “retro-fitting” to the AC system and came to conclusion, that it is possible to recharge the system (IF IT CAN HOLD THE PRESSURE) with the R134A refrigerant into the R12 system if you can basically change the oil in the compressor to the modern PAG oil. The AC performance should be less effective, but still it should work. I think. So i went to check the oil level in the compressor, and when i unscrewed the oil bolt - i heard a HISS, which, i think, is a good sign? Oil level was pretty good and the oil was pretty clear as well. Vacuum Pump will arrive tomorrow as well as the adapters and the low pressure/high pressure gauges. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanFJ1 Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 Hello everyone, i'm back with some testing. So we were checking the AC system all the possible ways. First - we just pulled the vacuum from the system. Gauges charts SURPRISSINGLY were staying as they were. Then i changed the oil in the compressor and then we charged the system with like 24 Oz of 134a refrigerant. Then i was checking all the possible places with the refrigerant leak detector - then only place was signaling of the leak is the low pressure valve, which stopped when it was unscrewed all the way out. So after that we put another 36 oz of refrigerant into the system and started the car to drop that pressure from the compressor and see all the readings. So at this point, you can see the into the sight glass that the refrigerant is running like a half way full. The return line was all cold, thus the evaporators must be cold as well. BUT - the ventilation doesn't blow any ice cold air so far... For now we are going to leave the system and check the readings like in a week plus i need to figure out - why there is no ice cold air blowing from the vents. Does the engine needs to be all warmed up? Does the system needs more refrigerant? Book says it needs 4 lbs, internet says the system needs 8 lbs. Also need to figure out why the wire the compressor doesn't work from the knob the temperature control (we had to connect it straight to the battery for the test). On 2/22/2024 at 8:46 PM, m-mman said: The compressor and valves, and hoses and dryer are all 60 years old. They might been actually replaced before car had been abandoned? On 2/24/2024 at 8:28 PM, 61polara said: I would recommend finding an independent garage that would be willing to do this for you because of the cost of buying a vacuum pump and the lines and fittings. Naaaah, that's not fun. I like to figure things out myself! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 (edited) Let's start with the basics. Maxi-fridge is not R-134A. Read some of the information on that stuff. Read CAREFULLY what the chemicals are in the can. Is it propane? Propane will work as a refrigerant, but if you have a leak in the evaporator core with propane, What are you driving around in? Or even the engine compartment. https://autoacforum.com/messageview.cfm?catid=2&threadid=13134 Best thing to do at this point is to get your vacuum pump and suck the system dry. You will need to evacuate the system for at least 30 minutes. You should have at the end of that time about 29 inches of vacuum. Turn everything off and leave the vacuum pump connected and check the vacuum after an hour or two. It would good to see if the system holds the 29 inches of vacuum. You could leave it over night and if it stays the same, you should be good to go. If it loses vacuum, you will need to find the leak. If it does hold vacuum, then the system is ready to be recharged. DO NOT use any sealer in the system!! Some people swear by it, but reread the link above as to why not. Only us R 134-A. If the system says to put 4 pounds of refrigerant into the system, put it in on the low side of the system. Look around the engine compartment for a sticker that might say how much refrigerant to put in the system. It might on the evaporator case. Remember the old "I saw it on the internet and it must be true", not always. You do not know if someone is talking about an aftermarket system or a split system. Look a the gauges for the pressures. The pressures will tell you if you have the correct amount of refrigerant The pressures should have a difference. Look up the different pressures for a R134A system. They are slightly different than a R12 system. The pictures below look like you either have a bad compressor or are low on coolant. Be sure to look at the chemicals in the artic-frig. Questions that you asked, Does the engine needs to be all warmed up? No, As soon as the system is turned on and the compressor is working you should shortly feel cool air. Does the system needs more refrigerant? Book says it needs 4 lbs, internet says the system needs 8 lbs. See above Also need to figure out why the wire the compressor doesn't work from the knob the temperature control (we had to connect it straight to the battery for the test). If the a/c does not turn on with the switch, then you have a bad switch, or wiring, or connections, or control head. "BUT - the ventilation doesn't blow any ice cold air so far..." This one depends on if the system is vacuum operated or electrically operated with the mode door servos under the dash. Do you feel any cold air coming out anywhere inside the car? If so it could also be a stuck mode door, bad mode actuator, or vacuum/wire. Hope this helps. Just remember ALWAYS USE SAFETY GLASSES AND GLOVES WHEN WORKING WITH REFRIGERANT. You would not like to get hurt by an accidental refrigerant release. Edited March 11 by Larry Schramm (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Even if the A/C is working a problem with the blend doors in the heater/evaporator enclosure could prevent cold air from getting to the vent outlets. I'm assuming the blend doors and associated controls are vacuum operated. If that's correct, you'll need to inspect all of the hoses, tees, diaphragm actuators and switches for vacuum leaks or mechanical binding. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanFJ1 Posted March 13 Author Share Posted March 13 On 3/10/2024 at 6:35 PM, Larry Schramm said: Maxi-fridge is not R-134A. I'm sorry, that got you a bit confused. I was using super tech 134A cans (like 4 of them) to put it in first. we just topped off with this little can of maxi-fridge. You would ask - why do you mix refrigerants together? I personally i wouldn't mix them, but i have a very experienced neighbor, that has decades of repairing and operating HVAC systems - i am doing everything like pressures reading/refrigerant load under his supervision. He said it's totally okay and i trust him. So, getting back if the system can hold the pressure - 2 days later AND EVRYTHING IS STILL THERE! Like, i honestly couldn't believe that. Plus, we have finally solved the mystery why the driver side heater core was teared apart from the inside, why the heater core hoses were sealed off in the engine bay and why the AC wasn't working. We came to the conclusion that the HEATER - AC Vacuum switch is totally out of control. That thing wasn't turning vacuum switch under the dashboard to power up the compressor unit and, as we thought, it was incorrectly opening vent doors. So we took it apart. Yup, all the passages were dirty, one of the control needles was stuck inside, everything was corroded and there was a dead spider lol. So we cleaned everything, put some lube on an every moving part and put that together. Ngl. it was a struggle to put everything back together, because we snapped a tip on one of these (2 of them) tiny needles and it was a bit difficult to put that dial disc as close as possible as it was before. But i think we did it, so at this point we have to put everything back together, wait for that perfect sunny hot day - and see what's what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 That looks like alot of fun. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 Oh boy -- Excedrin headache #1960... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Read what is on the can. I stand by my comments. PS: I taught at the GM training center for a couple years teaching GM dealer technicians how to repair cars and mixing refrigerant is a no-no. Also, I am a 50 year ASE certified master technician. Retired out of GM product Engineering, but hey what do I know. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61polara Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Not certain on the 1960 Lincoln, but I know that for 1961 through about 1965, the blower switch must be turned on the complete the power circuit to turn the compressor on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanFJ1 Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 Hello everyone. After a week of fighting with the vacuum switch i came here to say, that this is the most annoying and weird component in this car. Me and my friend was taking it apart and putting it back together dozens of times and it still dosen't work like it supposed to. To make things even more clear - i have bought another vacuum switch on Ebay that doesn't have an AC function on the glass, but it has all the same metal nipples at the back of the unit. Plus this plastic dial circle looks the same. And yes, the "new" switch was all stuck inside as well. So we had to take it apart and clean everything inside too. AND YET - every time we were trying different combinations putting everything back together, changing all the components between new switch and the old one - when you attach the unit to the vacuum compressor, it doesn't change the vacuum suction at the nipples on the back. In my unit it's literally always sucking from the blue nipple witch is a "SIDE COWL" Nipple. No matter how many times we were trying to make it work - it was never giving us any vacuum at the yellow nipple (A/C Thermostatic switch). The "new" unit working a bit better, i think when you turning the knob - it switches between few nipples, but, for instance, when you switch it to the heater - my compressor starting being all loud and smoky meaning the switch is literally sealed inside. Thus we are starting to think to change everything to the electric system with the Micro Servo Motors to open ventilation doors and start the AC compressor from it's control, that is going to be inside the old vacuum switch housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old car fan Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Smokey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanFJ1 Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 8 minutes ago, old car fan said: Smokey? Yeah, it has a little exhaust hole on top of it. The more pressure builds up it the compressor - the more smoke coming out from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 2 hours ago, BryanFJ1 said: Yeah, it has a little exhaust hole on top of it. The more pressure builds up it the compressor - the more smoke coming out from it. What little exhaust hole that you are talking about? If you are talking about the port on the bottom of this picture it should have cap on it with an o ring in the cap. Compressors should not smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanFJ1 Posted March 20 Author Share Posted March 20 2 hours ago, Larry Schramm said: What little exhaust hole that you are talking about? Sorry, i was talking about the vacuum compressor while i was testing the vacuum switch with the hose attached to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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