No Interior, No problem - 1920's Buick missing interior

[Hubert_25-25]

This is a sequel to "No Convertible top, No problem - 1920's Buick missing top bows and socket".   Phase 2 is to show what the previous owner and now what I am up against in putting an interior into a 1920's Buick.  There are several challenges when the seat spring assemblies are from another vehicle (unknown but assumed Ford).  As I am already part way thru this, I have to do a little back tracking.  So starting with what I was given.  The first order of business is putting the foundation wood in order.

      This is a stately automobile.   When the car arrived, you could barely squeeze into the front seat.  Larry DiBarry, Kevin Roner, and Don Burland provided details for me to understand what changes were needed to the front seat.  The seat base was level.  Buick angled the seat base at 15 degrees (lower at the rear).  So the back of the front seat was lowered 3".  The seat back was also trimmed and moved to the rear by 1 1/2 inches.   This is most noticible in the last photo when you look across the seat and see the passenger seat position relative to the passenger door.  Also notice how short the seat base looked.  It looked more like a perch than a seat bottom.  

 

This was my stopping point so that the car could be driven, and the top was installed.  Now I am moving on to the interior.     Hugh

 

 

 

Edited February 9 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[Hubert_25-25]

The first thing I started on was installing sheet metal for the side curtain pocket behind the front seat.  This was painted black on the back side and nailed into place.  There was also a light fixture on the seat back that was incorrect for the car.  It was behind the robe rail.  Buick put a light on the side of the rear seat back, but we opted just to leave this out.  I covered the holes later with a sheetmetal plate and pop rivets.  Also added a tack strip at the base of the seat to hold the seat back upholstery.  Back in the day, the seat back was upholstered to the car.  Wood was also added on the door latch post as there needs to be a place to hold the seat side leather perimeter tacks.       

 

 

[Hubert_25-25]

This is a mock up using the JC Whitney seat covering that came from my 1925 Buick in the interior of this 1927 Buick.  I really should throw this stuff out, but for pattern making, it comes in handy, and I was saving it incase someone else needed it to do their interior.  I fit it over the backing spring set as a size check.  I have also installed wood panels on the seat sides as backing for that upholstery.  

 

The next item to install are the front seat armrests and sides.  This is a leather face with a muslin backing.  It is stitched on the rear edge, and a pad of cotton batting is laid between.  It is then stapled or tacked on the bottom, top and front to the seat frame.  The next item is to put some panelboard as sound deadener on the sheetmetal to silence the seat back spring.

Then I was able to set the lower cushion in place, set the seat back cushion on the lower cushion, and secure the seat back springs with four hanger straps across the top.   You will notice that the seat spring assembly is covered with burlap.  This is held on with hog rings.  Then 1/4" Jute covers the face and it is also held with hog rings.  Notice the "void" between the top of the springs and the wood framing.  That is because these are seat springs from another car.     

A 4" x 4" cross section of foam was added at the top of the springs to fill this void.  Normally I do not use foam, but it is an inexpensive filler.  Foam also comes in various densities.  Seat backs are softer density than seat bottoms.  Same is true of seat springs.  Seat bottom springs have more and heavier coils than seat back springs. 

Once the foam was in place, I was able to cover the top with the Jute.  I originally installed this foam as a square, but needed to soften the angle on the top of the seat.  I pulled the jute off and I profiled the foam - basically cutting a triangular section out before I reinstalled it.   Photo below is the square profile before cutting.  The foam should not be much taller than the back seat frame wood.    

The seat covering is tuck and roll leather.

The next 2 photos show a comparison of the vinyl with foam and face stitched (left side), vs tuck and roll leather being cotton stuffed (right side).  The front side (photo below) and the back side (2nd photo below).  Face stitching is a whole lot easier, but you can see the difference.  I have covered how to do tuck and roll in previous posts, as well as David Coco and Mark Kikta, so I am going to skip that process explanation and just keep the uypholstery moving along.   

This is the front seat back tuck and roll covering.   It is half stuffed.  The metal trays are used for stuffing the seams with cotton.    

This is the attached seat back stapled in place with the older seat bottom cushion.  The backside of the front seat is usually covered first, but I wanted to have something in the car so that it could be driven.  I will be removing staples across the top of the seat back so that I can install the seat back covering in the next posting.  I also want to work on the seat padding a little more.  I would have preferred to do the interior in black, but the owner had already purchased 4 hides.  Because of the color, I cannot find matching hidem or binding, so this has to be made or the upholstery method changed to accomodate not using trim pieces.       Hugh     

 

 

 

 

[EmTee]

7 hours ago, Hubert_25-25 said:

...but the owner had already purchased 4 hides.

It's great to be able to see this car come together!  I'm  curious as to how 4 hides equates (roughly) to yards of fabric?

[Hubert_25-25]

Hides are interesting because of the irregular shape.  Then there is the quality of the hides.  Holes and scars and scratches that need to be avoided.  With a good hide and vinyl combination you can save money doing an interior.  Typically only the seat toppings are leather, and the seat back and door panels are vinyl.  Better vinyls are very difficult to tell from the leather.  

 

Whatever hide you purchase

- find a color that you can also get in a matching vinyl. 

- Better yet if you can find a matching trim material.  At some point you will need to hide the tack heads.   

- try to find hides where you could order another if necessary.  Some vendors sell 1/2 hides.

- There are "automotive" hides with UV protection and some are said not to stretch as easily.  

- always get a sample.  

 

When I did my 1925 Buick Standard Touring, I bought 2 hides and 6 yards of vinyl.  I had a half hide left over.   Tuck and roll does let you use smaller sections of hides.  You can sew a large panel using the tuck and roll technique as each pleat could be made from a strip of leather.   This does make a hide "go further".  Perhaps the reason automotive companies liked this technique.  It leaves less scrap.  

 

Here is the google answer to your question:

The industry-wide conversion formula states that approximately 18 square feet of leather is equivalent to 1 linear yard of 54” wide fabric. This formula is based on full cowhides averaging 55 square feet. Due to the irregular shape of a hide, there will always be a certain amount of waste.

 

So this looks like 3 yards of fabric = 1 hide.  I think that number is closer to 2.  

 

Hugh

Edited February 13 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[EmTee]

Thanks, I was curious about the 'loss factor'(i.e., waste) when using leather as opposed to vinyl or fabric.

[dibarlaw]

I realize that Hugh is working with what he was given and with the customers monitary constrains. But just for reference this is what the seat patern was for 1927. Very simple. Not a pleated design.

 

[Mark Kikta]

I ordered my leather and vinyl from a different place than Hugh did.   I ordered the leather and perfectly matching vinyl.  They sell wholesale only to businesses. It was automotive leather with a UV treatment.

 

I Placed two orders, 1^st order was 6 yards of vinyl to match the leather grain, and 3 hides of leather (they called it 122 sq ft or 2.5 hides) and the 2nd order was 2 hides of leather (they called it 88 sq ft because they were seconds (1.00 sq ft) and full of holes and crayon markings).

 

I originally ordered 6 yards of vinyl because I thought I would cover all 4 doors and the back of the front seat with the vinyl.  My wife convinced me to cover the doors with leather instead, so I ordered the second order of leather.  Timing was such that they had a big sale on the leather I needed (it was only 1.00 a square foot sold as seconds.  The seconds had a lot more small holes and thin spots marked up with some kind of crayon that was very difficult to remove).  It all worked out well as I have about 4 yards of vinyl left over and just some small scraps of leather.

[Hubert_25-25]

Always interesting to see interiors like Larry posted of the 1927.  Large expanses of leather instead of tuck and roll.  My opinion on these is that the leather quality needs to be very stiff.  I have seen many old cars with this style and the drivers seat is very worn in.   That car looks to have a good looking front seat still so the leather quality is high.   

 

When I did my car, I also bought automotive grade leather with UV protection and "German vinyl".  I bought it from Bill Hirsch.  It matched really well.  I liked the sheen and the way the vinyl and leather matched.  The leather feel and smell was worth the cost.  Black leather hidem and black vinyl trim was available as well.       

 

I tried to purchase from the company that Mark used.  I should have gotten a tax ID to get the discounts that he got. 

 

So now that you have seen the car, I will post about the quality of the leather that I received with the car.   When I did the front seat back and sides, I started by making a newspaper pattern of the size hide piece that I wanted.  I searched thru the first hide rotating the paper pattern, I found a decent spot to cut out the seat materials.  I figured all the pieces were narrow and any small flaws in the leather would go unnoticed.  That is mostly true, but then I needed to do the seat back.  This requires larger expanses of leather.  I cut out the best piece that I could find that was about 12" x 30".  It was partly the light color that would cast shadows of its creases, but more importantly this leather was not stored properly and I did not expect it to be this big of a problem until I started working with it.  It stretched a lot too and appeared to have bubbles if not pulled on all 4 sides or glued down. This is not the fine Corinthian leather that I was expecting.  I eventually learned that I had to hot steam iron this leather to get the majority of the wrinkles out of it.  And this is not just running a quick iron over the leather.  It is a lot of slow work to really get the iron heat and steam into the leather.  Usually from the back side.  On the front side I cover it with muslin to prevent the iron from damaging the surface.  The time required to salvage this leather is significant.             

 

The leather was brought to me "as a pile".  4 hides bunched up like old laundry.  I was shocked that it was not on a roll when I first saw it.  The first thing I did when I received it was to put it on a roll, but it was all too late.  Some of this was rolled, but not on a tube, and then it was crushed.  Some of it was on a roll at one time, but the roll was shorter than the hide.  The ends that were longer than the cardboard roll got twisted and abused and smashed flat.  It put a lot of hard wrinkles into the leather.   Some areas were too creased and I had to cut them out altogether.    The last photo shows a section that I had to scrap.  It's a sea of abuse.  All the hides are typical of this hide shown.     Hugh

 

 

 

Edited February 14 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[28Buick]

Wow another outstanding thread from Hugh that I must follow. I just did a leather ottoman with hydes from Tandy Leather. I was able to remove some significant wrinkles with a hot steam iron with a pillow case between the iron and the back suede side of the hide. Just keep it moving. If looking for vinyl that matches leather, I had good luck with Tops Online; although Vic does not have prewar patterns he likely can make it per your specs. I do not wish to drift this thread but here is a link to my 1987 Mercedes upholstery replacement with leather seats, contrasting piping and vinyl panels.

 

[Hubert_25-25]

On the front seat back, I started with the lower section of the side curtain pocket.  I used a piece of .060 polyethylene and I sewed the top and side edges of the leather to it.  Too many wrinkles showed so I had to remove the side stitching and iron the leather.  Still too many shadows on the leather, so I undid the side stitching again and adhered the leather to the poly with spray contact adhesive.   I ironed the surrounding leather and sewed the top section to the 2 side pieces.  I cut 3/4" wide strips of the .060 poly and used it with tacks to create a hidden attachment for the inner sides of the compartment.  This is how many home upholstery projects are done.  

Then I sprayed the seat metal with contact cement and added cotton quilt padding.  Another light spray with contact adhesive on the cotton and I was able to pull and apply the leather.  It is stapled on the perimeter of the seat back.  I am still working out the details of the seat compartment flap, so I moved on to start work on the back seat and the door panels.     Hugh               

[Hubert_25-25]

Having moved to the back seat I wanted to capture some of the interesting wood details on this car.  I am still fascinated by the quality sheetmetal work that was done on this car.  The wood parts function as intended, but no cross dimensional checks were done. 

Photo 1 shows the 3 vertical rear tub supports.  The back window and the straps are centered on the rear tub.  Notice how the left side wood is centered on the strap, while the right side is several inches

inside the strap. 

The middle wood is shown next to a level - that is level. 

All functional.  It will be covered by the seat.    

 

This photo shows the length of the right rear arm rest wood to the latch post.  7 1/2 inches to the latch post.  

The left side rear armrest is over 2 inches longer at 9 3/4 inches to the post.  Both do the same function, just don't know why they are different.  

This last item is Yankee ingenuity.  This is the top rest support inside the tub.  Just showing another method of securing a bolt.  It does functionally do the trick.     Hugh

Edited February 15 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[Hubert_25-25]

Before I could install the rear seat, there was more wood needed in the rear seat area.  I did not have a place to nail tacks on all the leather edges, so the first 2 photos show the additional wood strips needed to hold the leather and fabric tacks.  Notice the wood around the top of the rear tub.  This is supposed to be covered in leather.   Several pieces of wood were added along the seat base and at the door latch.  Then I used newspapers to make patterns for the panel board backing.   Then another set of newspaper patterns were made to make patterns for the leather seat side covers.       

The leather seat side covers are just like the seat covers, but there is only panel board behind them.  They get tacked around the perimeter.  As these are tuck and roll, they have a muslin backing and are stuffed with cotton.  The front of the arm rest is a little tricky.  The front of the wooden armrest needs to be picked up slightly to slide a little leather under it.  This makes a nice finishing touch to this corner.  The leather is wrapped over the armrest and tacked (stapled) on the outside.  The green tape was added so that I knew where the gypsy curtain snaps were when I reinstall them after I add the trim over the staples.

The rear seat back is treated like the front seat back.  The spring assembly is held to the back of the seat wood with hanger straps.  The springs are covered in burlap and then 1/4" Jute.  

The tuck and roll upholstery is stapled to the top side of the rear surround wood, and then the base of the leather is attached to the tack strip at the base of the rear seat.  The rear seat photo shows a good comparison of the tuck and roll leather on the seat back, and the old face stitched vinyl still on the seat bottom.  All of the leather used in the rear had to be ironed, but I was able to remove mostly all of the creases.     

[Hubert_25-25]

 A second posting this evening as I am trying to catch up on the completed work.  I moved on to making the door panels.   I used some old door panels as patterns and then made modifications to ensure fit as not all these doors are the same.  Then I cut the leather and contact cemented the leather to the panel board.  The leather was stitched around all the edges to ensure it would not come unstuck over time.  

Next I started with making the door flaps.  I used a piece of .060 poly and I glued leather on the outside and vinyl on the inside.  The leather is 1/2" wider.  I used basting tape and clips to hold the leather on the fold over. Once folded over this is stitched around the edges.  Then the excess leather is trimmed on the inside.  Besides using my good scisssors, I also use good cutical scissors to fine trim and they also make good gasket trimming scissors.  I also cut the .050 galvanized metal door flap weights on my band saw.  They make the door flaps "straight" and give them a nice heavy quality feel.  These get inserted after the flaps are made.  The flaps are stitched in the open position, then they are closed and stitched just below the fold line.  I had to use a different foot on my sewing machine to get close to the steel plate.   

 

 

The escutsheons were in pretty bad shape.  The aluminum had been sandblasted.  I had to straighten these and do a lot of hand sanding to get them smooth, and then buff them up.  

I also bought four door handles from Myers Early Dodge.  Very close to Buick's in looks.  For the decorative tacks, I bought these on Ebay.  They come in brass and I pushed them into a piece of cardboard and I spray painted the heads to match the leather color.  Buick did all this in black, and now we know how it looks in beige.     Hugh

 

 

Edited February 28 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[Oregon Desert model 45]

Looks real nice Hugh.  those escutcheons are thin, weigh almost nothing and its surprising they still cleaned up so well.

Kevin 

[Hubert_25-25]

I was pleased as well to see the escutcheons shine again.  Nice looking reproductions are being made by vintageandclassicreproductions.com, but I did not have to go there.  

I walked away from the rear of the front seat flap, because I was not sure how I wanted to make this.  I ended up making a model first and held it together with clips as I figured out the details.  I made a 3/4" strip of .060 poly that is used as a tack strip.  Then another 9" piece of .060 poly to use as a stiffener.  I left the lower 1 1/4" as just covering (no poly) to make it easier to install the Murphy fasteners.  The leather is cut 1/2" wider to fold it over.  The leather and vinyl is contact cemented to the poly.  I used basting tape to hold the edges together when it was being sewn.   I used the same decorative tacks that are on the door panels, but I painted the heads black instead of beige.   The decorative tacks are 1/2" long.  For added strength I used a 1" nail on each corner of the cover and that nail head has a decorative tack placed so close to it that it hides the 1" nail head.       Hugh 

[dibarlaw]

Great work Hugh on the "FrankenBuick". I would love to be able to take a nap on that rear seat it looks so comfortable!

I did not realize the body may have been an earlier Standard style. Or at least the doors with this type of internal latch handles. This verticle handle was found on all 1924 4 and 6 cylinder cars. Only on our 1925 Standards had the verticles as the Master had this style of horizontal inside pull/lever.

Below shows a 1926-45A with the same levers as my 1925-45 Master.

This car has an interesting front seat curtain arrangement. I have never seen this on any other car.

That is Dwight Romberger in the window. Photo taken when we went to check out the car that Joan and I agreed to purchase at the time. I did call off the deal because of other issues.

The 1927 open cars had this style pull toward the front of the front door on both the Master and Standard.

 My friend Peter's 1927-54

Levers are missing from the Standard. Photo taken when it was at auction from the Owls Head Museum back in 2011.

 Now Suzy Manhertz's 1927-24 "Homer".

 How would you like to do an Alligator leather interior?

 

 

 

 

Edited February 28 by dibarlaw (see edit history)

[Mark Kikta]

Wow, looks great Hugh, especially considering what you had to work with.

[EmTee]

22 hours ago, dibarlaw said:

 How would you like to do an Alligator leather interior?

 

Wow - that's certainly a different look!

[dibarlaw]

EmTee:

 Checking in the 1929 Buick Master Parts Book. The Alligator leather was indeed available. We just have not found any period sales literature stating this option. Just like the ever elusive 1925 Sport touring, Sport Roadster and Sport Coupe on the Standard chassis sales literature. They were sold and had to have some type of advertising. 

 

[Hubert_25-25]

The owner has a 1926 Buick "components bill of sale" that is notorized and registered by the Texas DMV.  Problem is, it does not say if it is for the body, motor, or chassis.  The only thing it could be for is the body, but it looks like the doors are 1925 Standard.  My old JC Whitney door panels that I used for patterns fit pretty close except the door latches were in slightly different places (shifted up or down) of the factory spots.     

 

Glad that I was not given alligator skins to work with.  

 

More of the same as I moved on to installing the front door panels.  Then I was able to go thru the rear seat base.  Looks like Model A to me.  I added a horsehair pad to the seat base, then covered it in Jute.  Finally starting on the last tuck and roll assembly.  Interesting sewing the seat side leather and the piping to the seat cover.  Sewing thru 4 layers of leather and sometimes more.  Made a few mistakes that I had to pull out the stitching and redo, but they were just on the seat corners and not too difficult to fix.   On the ping pong table is the finished seat bottom and the old vinly seat covering behind it.   It does look like a nice place to take a nap.  

Hugh.   

 

 

 

 

[EmTee]

Looks like you're getting close to wrapping-up this job.  Quite a transformation! 

[Hubert_25-25]

      Emtee, 

Thank you.  And I am not done yet.  I still have some leather panels to go.  These are photos of the left and right cowl kick panels.  I do not have any "matching vinyl", so this is all done in leather.  For sewing, you always need a patern.  I used some poster board to make a pattern of the kick panel area.  The slot in the floorboard metal had to be opened up a little because the leather is a little thicker as this panel board was originally covered vinyl.  After making the template I cut out the panel board and fit it by itself.  Then I took a little off the size for the leather.  I stitched one side.  Then I sprayed contact adhesive on the panel and the leather and worked the middle to the edges and stuck them together.  Then I sewed all the edges.  Decorative tacks secure the panel at the door edge as the other sides have grooves.  These cowl panels are tricky as it also extends up and under the dashboard sheetmetal.  The aftermarket water temperature gauge did not make the job easier.  

These are 

I had another problem in the rear seat area.  This part of the car was owner hand built and not as Buick constructed it.  It showed too much wood.  So I made 1 1/2 x 3/4" L shaped panels to fill the spot on each side of the seat.  Actually both were made separately as the left and right  were not of the same dimensions.  Installing the securement nails was difficult because no place to swing a hammer, so I had to pry against the heads and hope the nail did not bend in the process.  

I also went back thru and added more cotton to the rear seat sides to minimize the wrinkles.  I also added a leather heel section to the seat riser as this was the last piece of vinyl on the car.  I left the leather long on the floor as that will make a more finished base for the carpet.  

I will post again after I cover the tack heads.      Hugh

 

 

Edited March 8 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[Hubert_25-25]

So needing to make a few adjustments to the interior before I can hide all the tack heads.  At the door latches, I followed the panels that were on the car, but they were not done right as the latch showed.  I did not like the look of the black latch against the beige interior.  I decided to add a piece of wood into each latch post to try to hide the door latch when the door is closed.   I am still leaving a small gap for the trim.  I also added carpeting to the rear seat floor and I removed the large rubber mat.  I was able to install the foot rest as well.  

Then I had to make "Hidem", as it is not available in this color.  So Mark Kikta provided the details and I purchased a leather skive to thin the leather.  

Hugh’s notes for making ¾” wide hidem:

-        Cut leather to 2 ½” wide strips.

-        Seams will be done on a 45 degree bias.

-        Leather skived to .035”

-        Pen mark the leather on the back side ¾” from each side.

-        Use ¼” basting tape.  Stick this on the outside of each pen line.

-        Fold the ¾” edge over 3/32” welting cord.  Make the leather edge touch the pen line.

-        Create a 1/8” leather flat spot with the welting in the outside fold.

-               Repeat for the opposite side

-        Fold the welting to the middle on both sides.

-        Use the 5/16” presser foot and stitch each side.

So one side of the rear seat is now finished.  I have to make a lot of Hidem to cover the front seat and the rest of the rear seat.  That is my job tomorrow.    Hugh

 

 

 

[dibarlaw]

As usual. Outstanding craftsmanship!

[EmTee]

Better than new! 

[Hubert_25-25]

Thank you for the kind words.  I have now finished making and installing all of the hidem.  I have put my scissors away.  So now I have been able to get the Buick out into the sunlight to take some photos.   I do not have the top rests and top boot for the car, but the top can be lowered for photographs.  It makes a pretty wedding day car.      Hugh

 

 

[1956cody]

Outstanding

[Larry Schramm]

Hugh,

Fabulous car with you excellent work.

 

Are you coming to the old car festival this year?

Edited April 4 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Mark Kikta]

You have really done a nice job with this car Hugh, especially considering its state when you received it. 

 

Well done!