Some observations on "Collecting"

[Terry Bond]

These are a few of my random thoughts on "collecting" today.  

 

Despite the assumed relative obscurity of one of my main interests - spark plug collecting, there has recently been a flurry of activity on the internet.  First up was the much anticipated auction of some of the plugs from a large and important collection in the Norrth East.  It was a great collection.  While the collector retains a few of his favorites to continue enjoying them, he sold some pretty nice items.  Many were early and rare.  In some cases, the only known example of a few were up for grabs. Yes, I acquired a few I wanted but there was plenty around to satisfy other collectors and command some hefty bids from those who knew what they were.  In many ways it felt almost like a private sale among a few of the more advanced collectors world-wide.  No doubt some more casual accumulators of plugs were left wondering "what just happened?" as bidding rushed right past them.  Such is the madness of an auction - you just never know what will happen.  He has sold other items of automobilia including oil cans and advertising, signs, and a nice collection of early felt pennants. 

 

At the same time, there was a large very old collection of spark plugs in the mid-west that came up for sale.  It was a poorly advertised sale, and the plugs were sold in large lots -good and bad mixed together indiscriminately. There were bargains but again, some of the more advanced collectors really duked it out to get their prizes.

 

Yet another great early collection recently surfaced in New England and has been sold off via evil-bay.  The seller really has little knowledge about what he has.  No doubt he is also wondering what differences there are that will cause one old plug to remain unsold, while still others go for hundreds.   It can be a real mine-field from those who just want to buy a pile of rusty, crusty old plugs in hopes of striking gold.  "Investing" in spark plugs is not for the faint of heart.  For sellers, there is a vast difference between "good" and "great."   For those tempted to walk into the quick-sand here, remember-you can only sell your good stuff once!

 

i guess the same observations can be made for any automotive collectible these days.  There are more emblems, hubcaps, catalogs, mascots, etc. etc. on the market now than I can ever recall.  I think a lot of old collections are being broken up, either through inherited items being unpacked and disposed of for the first time in many years, or through that evil we'll all eventually face - downsizing.  Sometimes, "right-sizing" takes place also as collectors refine their tastes and move on from what they accumulated earlier and are focusing more on quality and rarity. 

 

It seems like there are multiple auctions each weekend all across the country.  Internet bidding platforms enable players across the globe to take part.  Byers premiums and other "convenience" fees for using credit cards to pay or to even bid via internet add greatly to the cost of playing.  But, that doesn't seem to hold many back. The pain of purchase is brief compared to the pride of possession in many cases.  It' my observation that this has encouraged competitiveness and "winning" has become more important to some than simply adding an item to their collection. 

 

I long for the days when good items were found in small country auctions or antique markets.  The good old swap meets are fondly remembered where one could rummage through boxes of unsorted items and pull out treasures from he bottom.  I'm down to basically a couple that I know have always been great - Hershey remains my favorite.  the Pre-War swap meet in Luray, Va is a close second.  You can still find vendors there who have cleared out from under their workbench, or have just emptied a barn.  Model T parts are everywhere, and for me, there are still old spark plugs in the bottoms of rusted coffee cans.  

 

So-what are your thoughts on collecting today?  Good or bad, it would be interesting to hear how you feel about "collecting via catalog" and buying via internat based auctions as opposed to trudging the swap meet aisles in search of treasure.  

 

If you plan to attend the AACA Annual Convention, you might enjoy my seminar "The Incurable Collector" to learn more about the thrill of the hunt.  I'll plan to reveal some of my "top secret" tips in finding treasures without having to pay those dreaded "buyer's premiums."  

 

What do you collect and how do you go about it?  Let the conversation begin-

 

Terry, professional accumulator of early motoring objects.

 

Edited January 22 by Terry Bond (see edit history)

[TerryB]

Good commentary and observations Terry.  I see a lot of reproductions in antique shops around me because they were so popular in the 1980s-90s and are coming to market now as the owners begin to downsize their possessions. It seemed in the 1980s everyone collected something and the market responded by producing lots of fakes, from cast iron toys, glassware and pottery and porcelain signs just to name a few.  The good old farm sales are being held for a different age group of owners that have less of the type of items you mention in their possession. These sales aren’t entirely gone but their numbers are reduced considerably in the auction sale listings I’m seeing here in the Lancaster county area.  At one time I would attend at least two auctions on a Saturday and possibly one after work on a weekday.  Several antique shops in my area used to have booths that featured automobilia exclusively, especially during the era when gas stains were closing out business after 50 years of operation or more.  There was a time when collecting automobile related items was fun and reasonably affordable.  The affordable part seems to have disappeared.

[Walt G]

On 1/22/2024 at 2:07 PM, TerryB said:

There was a time when collecting automobile related items was fun and reasonably affordable.  The affordable part seems to have disappeared.

I agree. Online looking and possibly buying is "ok" at best for me; recently in the past year or so, I have made some trades with fellow collectors and that is very satisfying. The fun is in the search is an old adage but is so true, and every time you look at one of the "treasures" you have it reminds you of the way it was acquired. Thank you Terry for your comments, all good - very very good.

Long ago you had to rely on your own research and friends for information - the internet has made that somewhat easier but now has also developed a personality type that if they want knowledge they have to have it instantly and if they know you have it demand that you share that.  Like it is owed to them  for some reason. To much button push personality or should I state poisonality.

There are still collectors that are really "investors" in objects /automobilia , I could never be that way.

I wish all of you the best of luck to find that one ( or many) object(s) that just makes your day, week, month and year....................

[Robert G. Smits]

On 1/22/2024 at 10:09 AM, Terry Bond said:

What do you collect and how do you go about it?

  The internet has made collecting so much easier and leveled the playing field.  Unfortunately what I collect isn't found in rusty coffee cans.  Today you have access to the highest quality merchandise that exists at your fingertips. Lets face it an auction determines fair value at that moment in time and generally protects you from all the fakes/repros you see at swap meets and on evilbay.  When you compare the cost of a week in Hershey to the auction fee it is acceptable to me.  Time is more that money whey you may not have much time left.  I do not mind paying todays prices for premium advertising that is appreciating at 20-30%.  I never consider the "good old times"  because I try never to look back.  It has worked well for me.  Just my thoughts which I am sure most will not agree with.

[Terry Bond]

Thanks for your comments.  I do enjoy the convenience of bidding on-line.  The recent actions I participated in were schedule for very inconvenient times during the holidays and there was no in-person bidding, just on-line or by phone.  Absentee bids could be placed directly with the auction company too, so they certainly made it easy to spend some $, which I gladly did,  At least I was able to join the fun without the time and expense of travel to their location. 

 

The internet certainly as opened such sales up to a worldwide audience.  Things have become much more competitive, whereas with swap meets, it's only when you attend in person that you gain any advantage.  But, at least with an on-line auction you know before it begins if anything is of interest.  I've found most auction companies will quickly respond to questions and send additional photographs.  It's different for sure, and although I much prefer the good old fashioned treasure-hunt of a swap meet an on-line auction still represents an opportunity.

 

It does seem like there are auctions almost every day, and although I've subscribed to "alerts" from a few of my favorites, there are countless others taking place that might have one or two great items I could be interested in, but can't spend the time glued to my computer to find them.

 

Any good tips for finding stuff like that - maybe only one or two great items in a sale that includes mainly household items?   Last year I found (and purchased) an amazing early motoring related lithograph from an auction house in California that was an estate sale of mostly Victorian furniture.  Even a blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally!

 

Terry

[Walt G]

45 minutes ago, Terry Bond said:

I much prefer the good old fashioned treasure-hunt of a swap meet an on-line auction still represents an opportunity.

Terry my friend , well stated. We can't be at a great swap meet every weekend all year long. Many of the long time/term swap meets I used to attend are no longer nor are the vendors/sellers that I knew by name and they knew mine (and what they had for sale that I wanted) The Hershey event is about the only car show swap meet I have never missed , the cost for the week is taken into account but is also a great bonding time with me and my son who joins me and to see friends world wide, near and far is priceless. In fact the 2023 event was one of the best for me to acquire two fairly major amounts of things I haven't seen since first attending in 1965. New friends are made in person and are only seen once a year but stay in contact the rest of the year at the tap of a button on a key board. It is all good.

Walt

[John Bloom]

I look at some of the usual places that are internet based, but I think over half of my purchases come from three different individuals/couples who own antique stores and have a great eye.   These three shops are places that I've bought from for years.  I have gotten to know them well through the years, and they have now become my friends.  I have bought consistently from them, refuse to "bicker on price" (I pay their asking price up front which I've found to be very fair), and don't constantly ask " is that your best price?  Will you take (lowball price)???".   These are smart people, if they know whatever price they state, you're going to ask to pay lower, they just adjust the price up so they can come down some and make you feel like you negotiated shrewdly......They know I will pay their fair asking price up front.  All three are in rural Indiana which has such a different price point than metropolitan areas (I live in the northern Chicago suburbs).  I am routinely impressed at the price they will sell something to me and they are still taking a profit portion for themselves.  Since they know what I like, they are on the lookout for me as they buy for their stores.  I am looking for a large statement Neon sign.  One of them called me Thursday morning after negotiating to buy a fabulous piece.  He wanted to know if I wanted it before it became available to others through their store (I passed, on a large two sided bullet nosed Neon sign that was 80 years old, because although cool, didn't have any relevance to other things I collect.  However I sure appreciated their offer to me before publicly sharing the piece)  

 

I guess what i'm trying to say is that I have built some wonderful relationships with a few people who look for things I'm interested in and it is a mutually beneficial relationship.  It has taken time....years.....but for me it is the most fun way to find great stuff.  I have a full time job and other time commitments but these people are "in the business" and know what is special and what is not.  Lean on friends to find great stuff, and develop those relationships.  In the end, the friendship will be great and the cool stuff you find through them really becomes secondary.

 

 

[Terry Bond]

3 minutes ago, John Bloom said:

I look at some of the usual places that are internet based, but I think over half of my purchases come from three different individuals/couples who own antique stores and have a great eye.   These three shops are places that I've bought from for years.  I have gotten to know them well through the years, and they have now become my friends.  I have bought consistently from them, refuse to "bicker on price" (I pay their asking price up front which I've found to be very fair), and don't constantly ask " is that your best price?  Will you take (lowball price)???".   These are smart people, if they know whatever price they state, you're going to ask to pay lower, they just adjust the price up so they can come down some and make you feel like you negotiated shrewdly......They know I will pay their fair asking price up front.  All three are in rural Indiana which has such a different price point than metropolitan areas (I live in the northern Chicago suburbs).  I am routinely impressed at the price they will sell something to me and they are still taking a profit portion for themselves.  Since they know what I like, they are on the lookout for me as they buy for their stores.  I am looking for a large statement Neon sign.  One of them called me Thursday morning after negotiating to buy a fabulous piece.  He wanted to know if I wanted it before it became available to others through their store (I passed, on a large two sided bullet nosed Neon sign that was 80 years old, because although cool, didn't have any relevance to other things I collect.  However I sure appreciated their offer to me before publicly sharing the piece)  

 

I guess what i'm trying to say is that I have built some wonderful relationships with a few people who look for things I'm interested in and it is a mutually beneficial relationship.  It has taken time....years.....but for me it is the most fun way to find great stuff.  I have a full time job and other time commitments but these people are "in the business" and know what is special and what is not.  Lean on friends to find great stuff, and develop those relationships.  In the end, the friendship will be great and the cool stuff you find through them really becomes secondary.

 

 

Good points John.  Fits with my own experience too.  I've become well known to a number of dealers/pickers, especially some I've met through internet sales or in person at antique shows. I get offers regularly, especially for additions to my sheet music collection.  Nice to get a chance before it gets to the open market, but it does sometimes pose a dilemma.  Its difficult to turn down an item that has been offered.  My concern is the person offering the item will loose faith in me as a buyer, or perhaps will think I'm too fussy.  I've bought some duplicate items as a result just to maintain the relationship.  Most of the time, upgrades to my collection will end up at Hershey or our own local club swap meet as a result, but how to say 'no thanks" to an expensive piece might be a bigger problem. 

Terry

[John Bloom]

2 minutes ago, Terry Bond said:

Good points John.  Fits with my own experience too.  I've become well known to a number of dealers/pickers, especially some I've met through internet sales or in person at antique shows. I get offers regularly, especially for additions to my sheet music collection.  Nice to get a chance before it gets to the open market, but it does sometimes pose a dilemma.  Its difficult to turn down an item that has been offered.  My concern is the person offering the item will loose faith in me as a buyer, or perhaps will think I'm too fussy.  I've bought some duplicate items as a result just to maintain the relationship.  Most of the time, upgrades to my collection will end up at Hershey or our own local club swap meet as a result, but how to say 'no thanks" to an expensive piece might be a bigger problem. 

Terry

A good point you make Terry.  Finding that balance where the relationship is a respectful two way street and never too one sided is important.  I have on occasion bought some things from them that I was pretty neutral about, but I could see in their eyes how pleased they were that they found something they thought I would really enjoy. I bought it for the relationship, and if it is bought well, it can always be passed along to friends or other people.

[Walt G]

It is interesting to read what John and Terry have stated. For decades i had a friend in England that would attend all the auto jumbles ( flea markets) there and in Europe,(especially France) as well as "car boot sales"  the local monthly or weekend flea markets . I was introduced to my friend via the English automobile author Michael Sedgwick  ( both Mike and I were active in SAH) and the fellow he introduced me to as the go to guy for neat car stuff really knew what he was looking at. His business was a 6 time a year 1,200 item printed auction catalog of automotive items, mostly paper and photographs but also mascots, toys, etc. I sent him things to auction for me, and told him I didn't want the payment after the auction sent to me but to deposit in an account for me n England. This way when I bid on something in his catalog or he found something for me in his searches he had the ready funds to buy it. It worked well for many many years and I was introduced to much material I never knew existed - sales catalogs on American cars printed and designed and published in Europe, mascots, toys etc. I did visit England on a regular basis in the summer when single and he and his wife and I would attend antique shows, auctions etc. as they liked similar era things. I managed to get over a period of years a full run of the French magazine OMNIA from 1920 thru the end in 1932, auto show issues of L'Illustration etc.  A full run of the Bentley publication On the Road, many RR Bulletins and mascots etc. We all can recall moments of joy in our pursuit of object of the past .

 

[Mr. Don]

From the seller's side of the deal, I made it part of my job, and it came easy as I liked my customers, to learn what they wanted, to look out for items to sell to this guy or that one.  -I did this for 19 years. -One day a fellow I had never met before was asking what was "Collectable?" Were any of these "things" really of any value? Of course, bits of Barbed Wire, Doorknobs, anything can become collectable. I asked him what he had? He then pulls out a very long list of items, almost all were very low dollar items, but the number of them made up into quite a sum! I start to look through the list and it was just such a jumble. Almost no two had any relevance to each other. No way to possibly say that this was a "COLLECTION" so much, as just a collection. -Our shop was in the last few years of decline. We never were keen on buying from "walk-ins" and I couldn't help this fellow. I said so and made a few suggestions, he then asked me if I knew of anybody who might be interested in buying the lot? - or most of it?

 

I thought for a moment, and by this time my assistant manager had joined in, as well as a few regular customers. All were at a loss to add anything. No suggestions bore fruit. Almost giving up, a name popped up in my head! I announced that " Oh you know who would love that collection! "John Doe"! He is just the guy for all those things!

I haven't seen him in a while, but I'll look for his number!"

 

The gentleman softly shook his head and told me not to bother, as "John Doe" was in fact dead, and that this WAS, his collection!

Edited January 29 by Mr. Don (see edit history)

[Gainey]

I collect pre-1958 automotive showroom banners. 

 

The in-person hunt for banners is definitely more rewarding than finding one online.  But, unfortunately, so many of the quality antique stores across the country have closed and buying banners online has certainly made collecting them more obtainable.

 

 

[Robert G. Smits]

On 1/28/2024 at 12:06 PM, Terry Bond said:

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally!

 

Terry

Over the years many of my spectacular finds have been of the "blind Squirrel" variety.  One of my favorite neon/ porcelains was on the wall of a clothing Boutique in the Florida panhandle.  Having a relationship with a quality "picker" has been important in my case as others mentioned previously.  Over the years probably a hundred of my automotive/soda signs came from the same picker in central Missouri who unfortunately retired a few years ago along with a Picker from PA who was a steady source of quality Breweriana lithographs until he passed 10 years ago.  If you come across a swap meet seller who has quality merchandise that interests you take the time to establish a relationship.  I still have dealers who will email/text me photos to see if I am interested.

Edited January 30 by Robert G. Smits
spelling (see edit history)

[Terry Bond]

1 minute ago, Robert G. Smits said:

Over the years many of my spectacular finds have been of the "blind Squirrel" variety.  One of my favorite neon/ porcelains was on the wall of a clothing Boutique in the Florida panhandle.  Having a relationship with a quality "picker" has been important in my case as others mentioned previously.  Over the years probably a hundred of my automotive/soda signs came from the same picker in central Missouri who unfortunately retired a few years ago along with Picker from PA who was a steady source of quality Breweriana lithographs until he passed 10 years ago.  If you come across a swap meet seller who has quality merchandise that interests you take the time to establish a relationship.  I still have dealers who will email/text me photos to see if I am interested.

Absolutely right Robert.  In one of my seminars at the upcoming AACA Convention I'm going to talk about some of the great ways to find good stuff and this tip is golden.  I regularly attend a couple of nice antique shows (with REAL antiques) and there are several vendors who save things for me to look over.  Of course I always try to be their best customer too  I'll spend some time with them showing photos of some of my latest finds (cell phones sure are handy), and will help educate them about some of the things I'm looking for.  They are really appreciative when I can help them to be well educated buyers too.   Even when I don't make a purchase I'll let them know why and help them establish a fair price.  I often get email from a few asking questions.  I don't mind helping in return for as chance to add something nice to my own collection. 

Terry

[Robert G. Smits]

One of the things I learned while actively collecting French Cameo glass was to ask  swap meet dealers if they have additional merchandise "under the table"  One year at Hershey after stopping to purchase a few music related pieces from Terry I stopped at a dealer a few spaces down the isle.  Nothing tripped my trigger so I asked him what he was saving under the table and he pulled out two original rolled up fantastic lithographs  advertising a fire school from 1912 which were discovered in the attic of a old fire station being demolished.  Of course I purchased both.

[nick8086]

On 1/30/2024 at 2:15 AM, Gainey said:

I collect pre-1958 automotive showroom banners. 

 

The in-person hunt for banners is definitely more rewarding than finding one online.  But, unfortunately, so many of the quality antique stores across the country have closed and buying banners online has certainly made collecting them more obtainable.

 

 

Just buy what  you want to display..

Edited February 2 by nick8086 (see edit history)