1930 franklin - $15,000

[Leif in Calif]

No interior pictures but the outside looks very nice.... has a serious mechanical issue...

https://humboldt.craigslist.org/cto/d/arcata-1930-franklin/7673659290.html

1930 Franklin 145 airman,
I have 30000 invested and had the started rebuilt and while they were testing it the motor froze up.
I had a buyer in arizona when it was running for 23000 but could not come up with the funds,
It is all aluminum so no rust problems, All the wood frame is solid and dry. It has factory hydrolic brakes and factory electric fuel pump. Tires are very good with two new ones on the front, Inside like new
I believe when they were testing it , over heated and froze a rod bearing .

email:   c48b333e36233567b3263670a0c14f86@sale.craigslist.org 

[Fossil]

I sure hope he received some kind of reimbursement for the damaged caused. This would make me sick! 

[wayne sheldon]

One cannot usually "overheat" a Franklin and have the engine seize up? Unless the engine is run with too little oil, or the cooling fans and/or covers removed. Either of those causes could likely result in major mechanical damage.

 

And a "factory" "electric fuel pump"?

 

Looks like it was a nice car ten years ago. I wonder how it looks today? It might be worth the gamble to do an engine rebuild?

[Akstraw]

An expert on these cars once told me that the bearing clearances on a Franklin are larger than in water cooled engines of the day to allow for expansion when they get hot.  Could it be that the rebuilder was unaware of this and fit the bearings incorrectly? Just speculating, but perhaps fits the backstory and supports Wayne Sheldon’s comment that “one cannot usually overheat a Franklin and have the engine seize up.”

[alsancle]

This was at Hershey but not for sale.  I love it.  I think a Walker body?

[Leif in Calif]

Sometimes the parking lot is as good as or better than the event, even if the event is a good one! 

[58L-Y8]

On 10/8/2023 at 8:39 AM, alsancle said:

This was at Hershey but not for sale.  I love it.  I think a Walker body?

A.J.:

That Franklin was a 1931 Series 15 Airman Model 152 Transcontinental Sport Salon by Walker.  According to The Classic Car; The Ultimate Book About The World's Grandest Automobiles, edited by Beverly Rae Kimes, page 286: 

"Just thirty-six Transcontinental Sport Salons were produced.  The roofline is several inches lower than the standard Franklin for 1931, and its padded top of sport material gives it a convertible look."

 

I recall seeing it at Hershey years ago in the show.  It cuts quite an attractive profile with its nearly ideal classic proportions.  Since Ray Dietrich was design consulting for Franklin at the time, it's safe to assume he might have either penned the design or had a hand in it to a degree.

Steve

Edited October 9, 2023 by 58L-Y8
syntax corrected (see edit history)

[Brooklyn Beer]

11 hours ago, alsancle said:

This was at Hershey but not for sale.  I love it.  I think a Walker body?

Here is my 31 in comparison

[wayne sheldon]

On 10/7/2023 at 5:56 PM, Akstraw said:

An expert on these cars once told me that the bearing clearances on a Franklin are larger than in water cooled engines of the day to allow for expansion when they get hot.  Could it be that the rebuilder was unaware of this and fit the bearings incorrectly? Just speculating, but perhaps fits the backstory and supports Wayne Sheldon’s comment that “one cannot usually overheat a Franklin and have the engine seize up.”

 

 

The Craigslist ad is poorly worded, and doesn't give much useful information. So anything at this point is mostly speculation and questions.

If a rod bearing (thinking crankshaft here?) seized?  That could be very bad. 

A wrist pin seizing "might" be an easy fix. Or not.

Franklin, and I suspect most air cooled engines, are a bit different than water cooled engines. The pistons and cylinders run considerably hotter in them than they do in water cooled engines.

Modern engine rebuilders have a nasty tendency to build antique engines too tight, regardless of cooling type. I have known way too many people getting their antique automobile engines "professionally" rebuilt and then had to have it torn down again because pistons, rings, and wrist pins were too tight. In fact, a good friend of mine just earlier this year had a wrist pin seize in the model T he bought about five years ago, and it had a few thousand miles on it it without trouble!

Even when I have had professionals do some of the work on an engine of mine? I do the final assembly myself.

The hotter pistons and cylinders in an air cooled engine could make that tendency far worse. I also have read in the past that the wrist pin clearances are a hit looser in a Franklin. But I have never done significant work on a Franklin engine myself, so don't know the actual specs. I have known a few Franklin fans, including one fellow that owned about a dozen of them and toured with them a lot! We have spent hours sitting and discussing Franklin automobiles.

Properly built, the Franklin has a very reliable engine! They excelled in desert races back in their era, rarely failing to finish under the most grueling and hot conditions. However, if the engine is not properly rebuilt, almost anything is possible. I certainly can see the possibility of a modern shop setting up super tight clearances (not understanding the engine they are working on!), and have the engine seize in an early test run.

IF (huge IF!) no serious damage was done? Maybe a full teardown and properly refit everything is all it would need. On the other hand, If serious damage resulted? One may be looking to buy another engine and start all over?

 

Frankly, I wish I had the money to spend. My dad bought a Franklin when I was about four years old, and sold it about four years later. And the several friends that have had and enjoyed Franklins? Make me want one. If I had the money to spend? I would be very tempted to take the gamble on this one.

Edited October 9, 2023 by wayne sheldon
I hate leaving typos! (see edit history)

[Steve Braverman]

There are so many things wrong with this ad. The seller does not seem to know much about his car. Franklins never came with electric fuel pumps. The body on this is mostly steel, with a little aluminum in the roof. The engine issue could be many things, none cheap or easy. A poorly fitted piston can overheat and seize. Franklin pistons have to be carefully made and fit. The rod bearings on this are babbit, so that's probably not the issue. A non-runner like this should sell for under $10k.

[Akstraw]

Pretty car, though.