buickbrothers Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 Ok experts. I'm reaching my patience level with this car! I have the engine, transmission, dash wiring harness connected. Went to start the car - nothing. Have been trouble shooting for days and I understand there are multiple safety switches that have to work in concert - too many if you ask me! I've disconnected all engine dash wire harness connections to the engine and I'm just trying to start the car via a remote bypass which I did multiple time after rebuilding the engine. I did this to test the engine - just mounted the engine on the engine mounts and connected radiator/hoses/remote start wires. I used the S terminal and starter battery cable connection to positive battery and same for wire to coil. Engine fired-up and did initial adjustments. Now, I can't seem to start the car with the bypass method - starter does not seem to be grounding properly. I had no starter solenoid engagement to turn the motor until I used a jumper (negative jumper cable) connection to ground the starter via the battery ground. What is going on? Question 1 - What is supposed to be grounding the starter to the engine? Question 2 - when I do ground the starter via the battery negative post and starter body, it's struggling to crank the engine - very slow/drained speed. The battery is fully charged and two days old. I'm starting to @#$# this car when I'm in the final stages. Help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 Have you checked the starter solenoid? It sounds like there is a high resistance in the starter circuit. Use a Voltmeter to check the voltage drop across the solenoid when cranking. Then check the drop between the starter case and the negative battery post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 You have a ground problem to begin with. Usually the ground wire off the neg goes straight to the engine with another strap someplace to the car body. If the cable is attached to the body add another from there to the engine. If that doesn't get results there could be a bad ground to the starter itself due to paint/dirt/rust, but more likely a starter issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buickbrothers Posted August 24, 2023 Author Share Posted August 24, 2023 EmTee: I painfully pulled the starter and did all the tests in this video link and they all passed: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi1vamupvGAAxWtkWoFHbZ2CvIQz40FegQIDhAh&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dn-RzcsdFoRQ&usg=AOvVaw0Htj-hxDbpe58OxsySOn05&opi=89978449 Oldtech - yes, agree there is a ground problem to the starter. It makes no sense since the starter remained mounted from the original engine start when the engine was just bolted to the engine mounts and negative cable was ground to normal engine mount termination on the driver's side mount. The car had one ground strap located on the transmission dip stick bracket (which is bolted to the back of the block) terminating to the fire wall on the passenger side. I can add another ground strap and was thinking of using one of the four mounting bolts that attaches the solenoid to the starter and then terminate the other end of the strap to the engine block. Is this approach a problem? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 following. I had like problems with my 49 and it ended up being that carb vac switch which I bypassed with a push button start switch instead of the gas pedal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted August 24, 2023 Share Posted August 24, 2023 Sticking brush? Did you open-up the motor and solenoid switch for inspection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 13 hours ago, buickbrothers said: EmTee: I painfully pulled the starter and did all the tests in this video link and they all passed: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi1vamupvGAAxWtkWoFHbZ2CvIQz40FegQIDhAh&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dn-RzcsdFoRQ&usg=AOvVaw0Htj-hxDbpe58OxsySOn05&opi=89978449 Oldtech - yes, agree there is a ground problem to the starter. It makes no sense since the starter remained mounted from the original engine start when the engine was just bolted to the engine mounts and negative cable was ground to normal engine mount termination on the driver's side mount. The car had one ground strap located on the transmission dip stick bracket (which is bolted to the back of the block) terminating to the fire wall on the passenger side. I can add another ground strap and was thinking of using one of the four mounting bolts that attaches the solenoid to the starter and then terminate the other end of the strap to the engine block. Is this approach a problem? Your idea is no problem and would confirm if the starter is not grounding. Have you checked all the connections for clean and tight? Does anything get warm after you have tried cranking it? If the battery cable has one of those clamp on repair terminals with the 2 screws, It would be the prime suspect, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buickbrothers Posted August 26, 2023 Author Share Posted August 26, 2023 I've resolved the ground issue to the starter. I reconnected all my wires (generator, starter switch, but the push of the accelerator is not engaging the start. I've put a remote switch on the starter, and with the key on, the engine fires right up and is running great! I'm trying to determine where to start trouble shooting in order to get the accelerator to do the start. Now, let me share a bit more information that may help you gents point me in the right direction of where to trouble shoot first. This is the reassembly stage of everything being completely taken off the car. My biggest concern is something is not connected correctly related to the dash wiring harness. As evidence, I'm seeing a few questionable issues. My taillight blinkers work and also light up when I pull the switch all the way out. However, none of my dash lights come on (gauge and map light). My reverse lights also do not come on. At this stage, I more focused on the accelerator pedal start working (light switch might be bad). However, since the back-up lights aren't coming on, I wondering if it's pointing me to start at the neutral safety switch as the first troubling shooting starting point since it can also be causing the accelerator starting issue? The back-up lights didn't work when I got the car, but the dash lights did all worked. How would I test the neutral safety switch? The book doesn't indicate a test of the actual switch, just how to align it properly with the shifter position. Thoughts? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 I had the opposite problem when the carb vac switch would not disengage the starter after going to 12 volt for adding AC. It had something to do with one of the "safeties" that worked with the generator when it was 6 volt that would cut out from the factory set up. I do have a NOS carb vac switch for a 49 here that I decided not to use when I just by-passed it with a bump switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted August 27, 2023 Share Posted August 27, 2023 Jump across the contacts on the carb switch, just be careful since those wires are not fuse protected also be sure the car is in neutral or Park. Check back with the results. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buickbrothers Posted August 28, 2023 Author Share Posted August 28, 2023 I believe I've now determined that lots of linkage adjustments are needed between the carb and accelerator pedal. If I manually push the operating rod far enough towards the firewall, mimicking the accelerator pedal, and key on, the car will start. Question, is there suppose to be a spring attached to this hole and if so, where is it connected on the other end? The pic's I have don't show there was ever a spring here but just want to make sure. If there is, a pic would be helpful so I can match up a similar spring. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buickbrothers Posted August 28, 2023 Author Share Posted August 28, 2023 Ok, latest update. The car is now starting by depressing the accelerator! However, now there needs to be an adjustment related to the carburetor but not exactly sure where. It's idling but there is an inconsistent slight backfire/popping noise - sounds a bit like a metal ding/pop. If I depress the accelerator to speed up the engine, the popping increases. The car was running smooth before and didn't have this issue until all the linkage adjustments were made to get the car to start by depressing the accelerator. Since there are multiple places I can chase for adjustments, anyone have an obvious insight that knows what this is and where to make an adjustment? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 Did you replace the exhaust port plug on the underside of the intake manifold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buickbrothers Posted August 29, 2023 Author Share Posted August 29, 2023 Not sure. I took all the engine parts to the machine shop to vat and Magnaflux the castings and install the valves. I did the rest of the engine assembly. I don't have a pic of the underside of the intake manifold and wasn't aware of anything to address on this part? Where is the plug you are referring too and what impact does it have? Once again, I had no backfire through the carburetor on the testing of the remote engine break-in and as I have been working through the engine being integrated into the engine compartment with full wire harness connections and vacuum connections, I had no backfire through carb with bypass starting until I got the accelerator pedal/linkage changes doing the start. I don't know what's causing this backfire to show up now. I plan to recheck the distributor timing and have already reset the carb to base settings (throttle stop and needles per book). Some reading indicates this could be due to a vacuum leak or timing issue. It could also be a valve which has me concerned as to why it's just showing up now after all the other normal running of the engine. Frustrating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 It is a port cast into the exhaust crossover portion of the intake manifold. If compromised you have an exhaust leak. The port is visible on the underside of the intake manifold. You might get a visual by using a small mirror and a strong light. I might even try a thin strip of aluminum foil as a mirror as it would be close to the center of the manifold. would be surprised if a machine shop did not replace it. I think the 55's is like a round metal core plug for the engine block. Different on the 56, but still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 That plug or access port would not be on the manifold pictured. Check the firing order again. Plugged jet(s) in carb? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
364nailhead Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 I had backfiring thru the carb, just on start up, come to find out, one spark plug wire was put on the wrong plug to engine. Just thought I would throw that out there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 Willie is the expert and I learned something today. But taking a closer look at the intake manifold pictured may I ask what is the black piece in the exhaust runner just to the right side of the carb mount. It almost looks like two holes in the runner, but that would be very odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 If the spark plug wires and firing order check out OK, try a different condenser. Did you verify dwell & timing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 5 hours ago, JohnD1956 said: Willie is the expert and I learned something today. But taking a closer look at the intake manifold pictured may I ask what is the black piece in the exhaust runner just to the right side of the carb mount. It almost looks like two holes in the runner, but that would be very odd. Looks like casting flash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buickbrothers Posted August 29, 2023 Author Share Posted August 29, 2023 It is casting flash that has holes/pit's from rusting through (the dark spots are the holes). No impact to manifold integrity. I'll be checking through the other items noted (jet's, timing, dwell, etc.) and will report back. I'm not retired yet, so this is evening/weekend work for me. Would gas grade/octane play into this at all? I know the book calls out premium gas, but as we all know, that was available decades ago and now we have ethanol mixes and lower levels of octane. Are people adding octane boosters for these cars? I'm only hooked to a 5 gallon gas container until everything checks out. I'll connect to pull from the gas tank last. Thanks for all the inputs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 28 minutes ago, buickbrothers said: we have ethanol mixes and lower levels of octane. Actually ethanol is an octane booster and my 55's run well on 87 e10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buickbrothers Posted August 29, 2023 Author Share Posted August 29, 2023 Ok experts. I've checked all kinds of thing's (spark plug wires all correct, timing is correct, jets good, fuel good, etc). I thought I was on to something when I read about crossfire, but it made no difference when I rearranged spark plug wires in the holders as defined in the book. A video is worth a million word's, and I have one! How can I load this video so you guys can hear the randomness of this ping? Then you can be as stumped as I am - lol. The idling has no ping to it now. It has moved with some of my adjustments from an idling to increased throttle position. There is no consistent ping pattern - the ping varies in knock pattern. This is nuts. If you could just hear this video, it's a head scratcher. BTW, I did some research on octane. Actually in 1955, it was averaging 83.48 and the car average compression was 7.92. So Willie is dead on, his car is humming on 87 octane which is better than premium back in the day! Help me get my car humming please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 You can upload the video to you tube and then post a link here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buickbrothers Posted August 30, 2023 Author Share Posted August 30, 2023 Took a while to get a channel to create and work on YouTube but here's a video of this problem. Note that when it's idling, it's not making the sound but does as you increase the throttle. It's also not a continuous pattern - varies in rythm. https://youtu.be/-5MMJPXlYcE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 Your video efforts were successful but I don't think I have ever heard anything like that before. That is an odd one. Heres a random thought. I suggest pulling the valve covers off and making sure all the rocker arms have no lash at the valve stems. Also can you determine if, when you get this ping, there is an engine miss? Or does it seem to fire on all cylinders? Another wild thought is status of any vacuum leaks. Have you a vacuum guage to see the status of the engine timing? As far as anything in the vicinity of the carb, that is vacuum related all I can think of is the ball bearing in the end of the starter switch, which is supposed tobe held to its base above the starter switch by vacuum. Perhaps a vac.leak causes that to drop? Or its the wrong size ball bearing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 As a test run it briefly with the fan belts off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAD36 Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 (edited) What adjustments did you make that affected the rpm range of the pop. It sounds like a metallic contact click. Like something is getting sucked up at a certain rpm and hits something and starves the engine or cuts the ignition. Trying to get in the ball park of cause and effect. 21 hours ago, buickbrothers said: It has moved with some of my adjustments from an idling to increased throttle position. . Edited August 30, 2023 by KAD36 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 (edited) It almost sounds like at increased RPM, lifter clearence increases and a push rod is smacking into a rocker arm. Like a semi collapsed lifter is intermintent. wierd sound. The sound almost has a hollowness to it. Have you tried an engine stethoscope ? I would be pulling each plug and using a micro camera to look and see in the cylinders. Edited August 31, 2023 by Brooklyn Beer (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 Is it coming from the back of the engine? Have you pulled the inspection cover and checked the torque converter/flexplate bolts? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 Can you tell where on the engine it is coming from? My first guess would be a rocker / pushrod problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Oldtech said: Can you tell where on the engine it is coming from? My first guess would be a rocker / pushrod problem. First step, take off the fillers/vents and verify oil to the rocker assemblies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buickbrothers Posted August 31, 2023 Author Share Posted August 31, 2023 Thanks for all the responses. I know it's a bit hard to hear since I don't have a muffler installed yet. The sound is totally coming from the carburetor. Not hearing it from the valve covers or any other area around the engine. I've put a second video in of the engine running before integration into the engine compartment. This video is the engine running on pre-check (post break-in but still minimal hook-up). After integrating the engine into the engine compartment with generator, power steering, all cooling/heater hoses, wiring harness, vacuum system, etc., the carb ping/pop showed up. This is why I'm scratching my head. It was running great! I'm wondering if it has anything to do with vacuum or wiring. I've pulled the carb off first to re-check everything there and if all things check out, I'll re-install and do a remote start/set-up again by disconnecting wiring harness and vacuum on the fuel pump. If it goes back to normal, I'll update the group. If not, I'll start down the path of checking cylinders, valves, etc. next. https://youtu.be/DzvlPQ6Q1xY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 Valves sticking open a little, especially the intake valves? Too often machine shops set the valve to guide clearance too tight (chevy engine specs that they are used to). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buickbrothers Posted August 31, 2023 Author Share Posted August 31, 2023 Just asking a sanity check question. If this pin/pop in the carb is a rod or lifter, should it not be more steady state in frequency vs intermittent? When I had a loose lifter in my Chevy 327 days, it was a steady state ping/rattle that increased with throttle, and you just took the valve covers off and re-torqued. So, I'm putting this check way down the list of checks. If it is possibly related to intake valves sticking, wouldn't that have shown up in the prior engine starts/runs or is it showing up now due to be run more times? I'm only asking these questions to skinny down where to start with the least amount of tearing everything apart. So, my thinking is to start with undoing the integration and see if the integration introduced this problem based on the engine running clean before. If it doesn't, then I'm on to these bigger items as suggested? If it does, then we have to determine what in the integration is causing this problem. Make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 1 hour ago, buickbrothers said: If it is possibly related to intake valves sticking, wouldn't that have shown up in the prior engine starts/runs or is it showing up now due to be run more times? That seldom shows on initial run...later when carbon and varnish adds to the problem. Your thinking is correct: check the last thing that was done, but always remember that engine and drivetrain noises are hard to pinpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 Wild idea department. There isn't an air filter stud or something laying in the intake! maybe pull the carb and check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buickbrothers Posted August 31, 2023 Author Share Posted August 31, 2023 Carb is off and ran a magnet through the intake ports since I had it off. No hardware in the ports. However, it seems like there was a lot of gas in the carb that I poured out. Is it possible too much gas is getting into the carb and excess is somehow getting down in the ports and igniting randomly? I rebuilt the carb and tried to be very meticulous on setting the floats accurately, but it is possible I was not as accurate as I thought I was. Just a thought. I'll go over the carb tomorrow, reinstall and start down the path again... Thanks all, will report back soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 It really does sound like a push rod is striking a loose rocker arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
364nailhead Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 Sounds electrical, to me, back of the engine compartment, more of a snapping contact sound? Within the carb, distributor area? Wierd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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