Early Olds Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 I have attempted to remove the rear wheels on my 1919 Olds and have had no luck in doing so. They consist of steel hubs and artillery spoke wood wheels with de-mountable rims. I'm trying to remove the complete wheel/hub to inspect the axle/wheel bearings and service the brakes. The service brakes contract on the wheel's attached brake drums, while the parking/emergency brakes are expanding and internal to the same rear wheel drums. The car supposedly has tapered rear axles and ball bearing wheel bearings, but I'm not sure. I have used a wheel puller which screws on the hub cap threads using a push bolt threaded through the puller and set into the end of the axle. I've tried tapping on the puller bolt after pressure has been applied to the axle. The left wheel has not moved while the right wheel has moved approximately 1/2" then stopped. I'm a novice at this type of work and sure would appreciate any insight as to what I could do to take these wheels off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 Back the nuts off, leave loose and drive it around your yard or a close by parking lot. They ill loosen up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelroadster Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 (edited) Leave them only a little loose. The screw that you see on the outside of the hub is a place that you can add grease. I would just take a look into the hole and see if it is bone dry. I have had some some tough ones but never one that would fight a hub puller for very long. Are you sure there is enough give in the brake system? It wouldn't hurt to adjust the brakes to be a little looser. Edited April 11, 2023 by nickelroadster (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 The one that budged somewhat is probably held back by the brakes. Try the puller again on the one that hasn't moved. Use some penatraint for a few days and then smack the push bolt a bit more aggressively and a few more times and it my break loose. Heat helps too! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Desert model 45 Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 (edited) That looks like a floating rear axle which was also used by Buick. Those 6 nuts attach the driving hub to the wheel. Remove those and the outer hub and axle shaft can be pulled out. Then you will see a big nut that holds the wheel bearing and wheel on the axle housing. There might be a big star type keeper that has to be bent away from the nut before it can be turned. . If you have an original tool kit with the car there may be a hub wrench that fits the big nut similar to this one pictured below. If you don't have the original wrench, there might be a modern socket that will fit. My Buick uses a 2-1/2" nut and those are available. Sometimes the nut has previously been removed using hammer and chisel which buggers them up. Left side will have left handed threads. Once the big nut has been removed it still might be necessary to use a puller to get the wheel off. I machined a plug that fit into the end of the axle tube for the puller to react against so the end would not get damaged. Kevin Edited April 11, 2023 by Oregon Desert model 45 edit (see edit history) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Early Olds Posted April 11, 2023 Author Share Posted April 11, 2023 Thanks for the suggestions, I'll try these ideas, hopefully one will work. If it is the brakes it must be the inside emergency brake, I have adjusted the service brake to be very lose and have disconnected the inside emergency brake linkage. I will try again with puller using your ideas (I have been very aggressive with the puller, smacking the bolt head very hard). The last resort would be to start taking the hub apart, thanks for the diagrams/pictures. Should I spray the penetrate into the hub grease screw hole? Where should I apply the heat, bottom of the hub? I like the idea of driving it around with the nuts loosened a bit, that would be the most fun, but not doable quite yet. Thanks again folks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude Light Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 Looks like you have a full floating axle. This is for the 1919 Model 45 but I’m guessing the Model 37 is the same. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Desert model 45 Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 (edited) "The last resort would be to start taking the hub apart, thanks for the diagrams/pictures" That should NOT be the last resort! The hub and axle must be pulled out first to expose the big nut that holds the wheel to the axle, pictured below. Using the puller configured as you have could damage the differential, the threaded end of axle tube, or the 6 studs. By now the axle shaft has been loosened up inside the driving hub, and if you were to drive the car around the block, there is a high risk of shearing the key and damaging keyways in both axle and hub. Edited April 11, 2023 by Oregon Desert model 45 edit (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Early Olds Posted April 11, 2023 Author Share Posted April 11, 2023 Thanks to all for your help! This axle mimics Oregon Desert's Buick set up, thanks Oregon Desert for the insight. Stude light came by today and helped/showed me how to deal with the tear down, thanks Stude light. It is a "full-floating" rear axle. dissembling like Oregon's Buick, however the axle shaft itself does not slip out of the axle tube, it is held in the differential by a C clip or pins (we think). My next step will be to pull the diff cover and see what is holding the axle in place. I can now do maintenance on the brakes, clean and repack the bearings and hub. The hub puller is going back to the gentleman I borrowed it from, post-haste, definitely not required on this type of axle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Desert model 45 Posted April 12, 2023 Share Posted April 12, 2023 (edited) I am afraid that aggressive use of that puller may have overtraveled the axle shaft and jammed the spline end into the bevel gear. No notch is visible on the splined end in the Full floating axle picture, which suggests that is not held in with a C clip like a non-floating axle. Try pulling the other side. If it pulls out easily, that will answer the question. Edited April 12, 2023 by Oregon Desert model 45 edit (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted April 12, 2023 Share Posted April 12, 2023 I agree with Oregon. There are no clips and the axle should just pull out, Slide hammer? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Early Olds Posted April 12, 2023 Author Share Posted April 12, 2023 I will be leaving on a short trip, back 1st of May so I might not get to the other axle or differential until then. this site is extraordinarily helpful. There is very little documentation in the form of service manuals out there for this car and engine (Northway (6) Model 110). I hope I haven't done too much damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude Light Posted April 12, 2023 Share Posted April 12, 2023 12 hours ago, Oregon Desert model 45 said: I am afraid that aggressive use of that puller may have overtraveled the axle shaft and jammed the spline end into the bevel gear. No notch is visible on the splined end in the Full floating axle picture, which suggests that is not held in with a C clip like a non-floating axle. Try pulling the other side. If it pulls out easily, that will answer the question. Kevin The key in the end of the axle shaft stops against the threaded end of the axle tube when the shaft is driven inwards so there is some damage to the end of that tube and some metal shavings. Nothing important is damaged in that area. While similar to the Model 45/46 axle, as shown in the illustration, the Model 37 axle is different and the shape of the third member is quite a bit different so I can’t be positive that there isn’t a retainer inside. The axle needs to come out of the housing to ensure we clean out any metal chips created by the keyway grinding in to the end of the axle tube so the diff cover needs to come off regardless (either remove retainer or check for damage) but we just ran out of time. The biggest issue is that poor Mike will be on vacation with this question unanswered until he gets back. I would have to delay my trip 🤔🤪 Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Early Olds Posted April 13, 2023 Author Share Posted April 13, 2023 Question is still unanswered, but I did get the cover off the housing and will clean it when I return, meanwhile it can allow the very thick oil to, somewhat, vacate the housing. Also have a picture of key and damage to axle tube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodge28 Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 The first thing when removing brake drums is to back off the shoes adjusters. If a wheel hub puller is not available give the hub a good whack towards the inside a few times. The same thing applies to late vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 22 hours ago, dodge28 said: The first thing when removing brake drums is to back off the shoes adjusters. If a wheel hub puller is not available give the hub a good whack towards the inside a few times. The same thing applies to late vehicles. The drums come off with the wheels on this. It is a "full floating" axle setup. normally you just take off the 6 nuts and slide the hub and axel out as a unit. The wheel is wheel is held on by the big nut. The advice about the shoes is valid. No puller needed on this axle normally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodge28 Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 Good Going. Nice to let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Early Olds Posted May 3, 2023 Author Share Posted May 3, 2023 Home again. Back to work....I did get the axle out! As you see in the pictures burrs were pinching the axle as the axle tube ID was peened in by the axle key striking the tube. This happened because I was using the incorrect tool, a Hub Puller, to extract the axle. I will clean up the damage to the tube and go to the other rear wheel, now understanding what I'm up against. I appreciate all the input I received from you guys, this is a great forum and a tool I need to use more often due to my lack of knowledge of these old cars. Thanks again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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