fuel pump pressure

[cquisuila]

Hello

I think to put an electric pump on my riviera (in conversion from mecanichal pump existing)

 

i sawn on workshop manual a pressure of 5 Lbs :

WHAT's the signification of this unit ?

i think that it is equal to PSI

SO

5 psi * 0.069 = 0.345 bars

i'm agree ?

 

Thank you !

Philippe

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by cquisuila (see edit history)

[EmTee]

Yes, the shop manual says 'pounds' (lbs.), which really means 'pounds per square inch' (psi), so 0.345 bar is correct.  Too much fuel pressure can overwhelm the inlet needle valve in the carburetor and flood the engine.  Depending upon the pump that you select, you may need to add an inline pressure regulator.

[cquisuila]

yes i will add an inline pressure regulator to adjust to 0.3 bars (or 5 psi)

[RivNut]

On my 1964, I have both an electic and a manual pump.  The electric is on a relay that cuts current to it once the engine is running.  With today’s fuels, evaporation in the carb bowls is not unusual so the electic pump is used to refill the carb.

[cquisuila]

24 minutes ago, RivNut said:

On my 1964, I have both an electic and a manual pump.  The electric is on a relay that cuts current to it once the engine is running.  With today’s fuels, evaporation in the carb bowls is not unusual so the electic pump is used to refill the carb.

YES THE ELECTRIC pump is used to fill the carb , especially to starting so as not to tire the battery

 

so you kept the mechanical pump ? what's the diagram to bypass the mechanical on starting and refill when the car drives ?

 

I THINK at this system :

- pump alimentation with the coil + and a switch for - (that i put in board)

when i turn the key to ON , i put the switch to on 10 seconds to connect the pump

- after , i 'm starting the car(and the pump is now not efficient because switch pump off)

Edited October 5, 2022 by cquisuila (see edit history)

[XframeFX]

4 hours ago, RivNut said:

I have both an electic and a manual pump.  The electric is on a relay that cuts current to it once the engine is running.

Good idea. Be sure it is a flow through electric pump when off.

4 hours ago, RivNut said:

evaporation in the carb bowls is not unusual so the electic pump is used to refill the carb.

Not so much with an Edelbrock Performer Carb (w/o switching the air horn) - LOL. Couldn't resist a quick plug for the e-clone!😂

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by XframeFX (see edit history)

[RivNut]

9 minutes ago, XframeFX said:

Good idea. Be sure it is a flow through electric pump when off.

Not so much with an Edelbrock Performer Carb (w/o switching the air horn) - LOL. Couldn't resist a quick plug for the e-clone!😂

 

 

 

 

 

Cheap 10% gas is cheap 10% gas no matter where it sits.  It’s going to evaporate unless it’s in a sealed container.

[gungeey]

When you drive the car often enough the fuel won't have a chance to evaporate.

If everything is dialed in correctly, when an electric fuel pump prefills the carb the engine will start on a few cranks. Since it had been sitting for some time the rod and main bearings may or may not have been oiled without pressure. Just some residual oil from the last run. If it's been a while it won't be much. 

 

On the other hand, while you're you're cranking the engine with only a mechanical fuel pump waiting for the fuel bowl to fill the oiling system is also getting pressurized. 

 

That's a pretty good system right there. Would you rather have a worn out starter over time or worn out bearings? 

 

Or do it right and add an electric external oil system so the bearings are pretty lubed when the engine is fired up. 

 

I think that some of the beauty in these old cars is the simple way in which they were designed to operate.

 

 

[telriv]

IF you crank the engine in 15 second intervals you don't have to worry too much about wasting  the starter just until the oil light goes out or the mechanical oil pressure gauge starts to move.. 

AGAIN, a starter is much easier to replace/rebuild than engine bearings.

 

Tom T.

[gungeey]

And to further illustrate the beauty of the factory system:

Crank the engine as Tom says above and don't touch touch the gas pedal.

Oil light goes out.

Oil pressure is now up and carb has gas.

Press accelerator pedal to floor and release to set the choke.

Turn the key and car starts right up.

Every. Single. Time.

[XframeFX]

4 hours ago, gungeey said:

When you drive the car often enough the fuel won't have a chance to evaporate.

But, but, I can't park on my slightly inclined driveway without backing in. The fuel pump looses it's prime with zero head at the pump! It will start, run for a moment then die, no fuel!

 

In my other post I vented my frustration on trying to source a correct fuel pump pro-actively. This after fuel tank repair, all new hoses, filter and rebuilt AFB last summer. Well a month ago, my crimped fuel pump failed but not totally. Likely a check valve at the inlet. I can still drive it while waiting for that repair kit from CARS.

 

When everything was good with a solid fuel pump, it would start with choke and the fast idle would have it roaring, pump included. Immediately kick it down to a reasonable idle. It doesn't  even require full choke/fast idle. So, I have the choke set at lean, doesn't close completely. Still kick off the not so fast idle, a gentle warm-up.

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by XframeFX (see edit history)

[cquisuila]

14 hours ago, gungeey said:

And to further illustrate the beauty of the factory system:

Crank the engine as Tom says above and don't touch touch the gas pedal.

Oil light goes out.

Oil pressure is now up and carb has gas.

Press accelerator pedal to floor and release to set the choke.

Turn the key and car starts right up.

Every. Single. Time.

yes it is exactly as i start the car and the owner's manual explains that :

and it precises that most of the fuel will have evaporated from the carburetor if the car has been idle for several days :

and

and if i listen, the remplacement or additional pump is not a good idea !;)

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by cquisuila (see edit history)

[gungeey]

7 minutes ago, cquisuila said:

yes it is exactly as i start the car and the owner's manual explains that :

and it precises that most of the fuel will have evaporated from the carburetor if the car has been idle for several days :

 

 

OK, so where in the manual does it say to add an electric pump?

 

It's your car and project my friend. Do as you please.😄

[cquisuila]

1 hour ago, gungeey said:

 

 

OK, so where in the manual does it say to add an electric pump?

 

It's your car and project my friend. Do as you please.😄

Please read the end of my post

I doubt

And i don't think that electric pump was common in 1966 

 

[telriv]

AND they didn't have alcohol in the fuel in 1966 which evaporates fairly quickly on a warm engine.

 

Tom T.

[RivNut]

The owners manuals and chassis manuals should be read as if the car is new, you drive it every day, and you can buy 93 octane leaded fuel.  If you’re not living in that world, you have to make compensations for driving a 50+ year old car, you drive it occasionally, and you can’t buy high octane leaded fuels.  

[XframeFX]

7 hours ago, telriv said:

AND they didn't have alcohol in the fuel in 1966 which evaporates fairly quickly on a warm engine.

My thinking is to restart the engine a couple of hours after a hot shutdown, run it for under a minute. Now the carb is topped-up with fuel line pressure up from the check valve in the pump.

I've been doing it lately, topping up the carb. But no line pressure with bad check valves in the pump. Still waiting for fuel pump repair kit.

[EmTee]

1969 Rivieras used an electric pump from the factory.

[cquisuila]

54 minutes ago, EmTee said:

1969 Rivieras used an electric pump from the factory.

ok !! the elecric pump is in tank :

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by cquisuila (see edit history)

[XframeFX]

On 10/7/2022 at 6:56 AM, cquisuila said:

ok !! the elecric pump is in tank :

Where is figure 64-II from? '69 Shop manual?

Would be nice to have such an arrangement for 1st gen Rivs.

[cquisuila]

For me i go to team buick /référence and i find the chassis service manual

https://www.teambuick.com/reference/library/69_chassis/index.php

It is cool

And i choice the year of riviera

After i choosed the fuel pump

 

More you can download all free

It is great

Thanks teambuick Web site

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by cquisuila (see edit history)

[XframeFX]

10 hours ago, cquisuila said:

For me i go to team buick

Thank-you. So, from '69 Shop Manual.

I'd try go with that arrangement. Should fit in your '66, all 2nd gen?

 

Yes, Team Buick is full of info. Thanks Team Buick!

[cquisuila]

14 hours ago, XframeFX said:

Should fit in your '66, all 2nd gen?

I think that it is possible without problem

but you have to add a pressure regulator to efficience system