pkhammer Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 My recently purchased 1931 Ford Model A has one major problem; it sat with fuel in the tank for nearly 20 years before I got it. The fuel of course had turned bad and not only had it left the interior of the tank with a coating of varnish, it has a good coating of rust to boot. What to do? After draining the old gas and talking to several folks and doing a lot of internet research I got so many recommendations of cleaning solutions I didn't really know what to try first. I saw everything recommended from apple cider vinegar to Red Devil Lye and even muriatic acid. Not wanting to get into any harsh chemicals I went and bought 11 gallons (enough to fill the tank) of white vinegar and filled the gas tank and let it set for a week. When I drained it I figured it must've done something because the mess coming out of the tank looked like chocolate milk with flakes of black debris in it! Unfortunately once drained and inspected the interior of the tank was not clean, there was still plenty of rust left behind. Several folks had told me that the only "proper" way to clean the tank was to remove it from the car, have it cut open, mechanically cleaned, welded back up, sealed and repainted. Although I am trying to avoid this procedure it is very possible (maybe even likely) that this will be the best route to take. Before giving up however I had read good reports about some other rust removers. Evaporust was one that came up a lot and Rust911 was another. Figuring I had nothing to lose I picked up a gallon of Evaporust in town and poured it in the tank. Evaporust is non-toxic and the manufacturer claims it won't attack the base metal and best of all won't harm the paint if spilled. I poured the one gallon in the tank and let it set for a week, drained it and inspected the tank. The bottom of the tank where the Evaporust had laid was around 95% clean metal! You could see with a flashlight a very distinct line of where the solution was in contact with the metal and where it wasn't. Needless to say I am impressed enough to continue down this path to see where it leads! I couldn't get a decent photo but I found the attached photo online. It is a real good representation of what I saw in my gas tank. Clean metal where the solution laid and rusty metal where it wasn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkhammer Posted June 11, 2022 Author Share Posted June 11, 2022 So the next thing to do is buy 11 gallons of Evaporust and fill the tank, right? Well, being a cheapskate I was having a hard time spending the $27 or so per gallon X 11 gallons. Although $300 would be a small price to pay for a clean gas tank I decided to try Rust911. $70 buys you a gallon of concentrate that when mixed with water makes 16 gallons of rust remover. Yesterday afternoon I got a bucket and started mixing the solution. 8 oz. of Rust911 to a gallon of warm tap water, pour it in the tank and repeat, 11 times. I filled the tank right up to the top of the fuel filler neck. The manufacturer says it works better if warm so once the tank was filled I put my magnetic block warmer from my compact diesel tractor on the bottom of the tank and plugged it in. I had a half gallon of solution left over once the tank was filled so I decided to soak the impossibly filthy spark arrester screen (a Model A Ford item) in the solution to see if it would clean it up. I wish I had taken a before photo of this part. It was covered with rust and old gasoline varnish. Almost none of the holes (perforations) were even visible. After soaking overnight in the Rust911 solution and rinsing it off this morning here is what it looks like. Hmmmm........this just might work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkhammer Posted June 11, 2022 Author Share Posted June 11, 2022 (edited) I'll leave the solution in the tank for a week or so and drain it. I'll report here what it looks like. I'm sure no matter what the outcome there will still be plenty of opinions on the best way to tackle this problem and that is ok. I just want to share my experience so as to help others make an informed decision if faced with the same problem. If it fails then we'll all know what not to do. More to come later! Edited June 11, 2022 by pkhammer mispelling (see edit history) 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 12 minutes ago, pkhammer said: I'll leave the solution in the tank for a week or so and drain it. I'll report here what it looks like. I'm sure no matter what the outcome there will still be plenty of opinions on the best way to tackle this problem and that is ok. I just want to share my experience so as to help others make an informed decision if faced with the same problem. If it fails them we'll all know what not to do. More to come later! I've had good results with products from Rust911. Looking forward to your follow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 1 hour ago, pkhammer said: I'll leave the solution in the tank for a week or so and drain it. I'll report here what it looks like. I'm sure no matter what the outcome there will still be plenty of opinions on the best way to tackle this problem and that is ok. I just want to share my experience so as to help others make an informed decision if faced with the same problem. If it fails then we'll all know what not to do. More to come later! Is the solution reusable? Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkhammer Posted June 11, 2022 Author Share Posted June 11, 2022 I think to a point it is reusable. I've read where some users have simply strained out the debris and continued to reuse it. I think eventually it would get so dirty it'd need to be disposed of. The one gallon of Evaporust that I had in the tank went in clear and came out looking like black coffee with lots of trash in it. That gallon I suspect was finished with it's useful life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkhammer Posted June 11, 2022 Author Share Posted June 11, 2022 Here is what Evaporust says: HOW DO I KNOW WHEN THE BATH IS SPENT? The bath will turn completely black and will not perform. Also, the specific gravity will change from 1.042 to 1.085. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkhammer Posted June 11, 2022 Author Share Posted June 11, 2022 They also say this: HOW LONG WILL EVAPO-RUST® LAST, AND HOW MANY TIMES CAN IT BE RE-USED? Evapo-Rust has an indefinite shelf life. The product can be re-used until its effectiveness starts to wear off. In general, one gallon of Evapo-Rust® will remove 1/2 pound of pure dry rust. Since rust is 1/17th the weight of iron, the workload is quite substantial. In terms of a degradation curve, Evapo-Rust® has a specific gravity of 1.042 when the solution is fresh. After repeated uses, the solution will darken and start to lose its effectiveness. Once the solution reaches a specific gravity of 1.08, the solution will no longer be effective and should be replaced. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 I would love to see an analysis of this by a chemist. Is there some way to "filter" enough of the black stuff out that it would be effective again, or is it simply a chemical reaction and when it is done, the active ingredient is spent? To test specific gravity in this range, get a kit for wine. I have this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DTV9HVV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 Well, Greg and I talked about this issue, my advice was to spend the grand and get the tank cleaned and painted professionally. Why spend the money? Because nice weather is here, and it would be a shame to be still fighting the gas tank when cold weather hits and it can't be enjoyed for fun drives. It's a nice car and needs to be on the road! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkhammer Posted June 11, 2022 Author Share Posted June 11, 2022 47 minutes ago, trimacar said: Well, Greg and I talked about this issue, my advice was to spend the grand and get the tank cleaned and painted professionally. Why spend the money? Because nice weather is here, and it would be a shame to be still fighting the gas tank when cold weather hits and it can't be enjoyed for fun drives. It's a nice car and needs to be on the road! All good points and just because I'm not immediately acting on the advice of people I truly respect I hope they don't take that as I don't believe them or don't take them seriously. It's also not just about the money. I am truly interested in seeing how well these products work and reporting it so that it can possibly help others faced with the same problem. I'll also know what to do if faced with this issue again in the future. I have also discussed with someone who had been down the road of having the tank removed, cut open, cleaned and repainted and that can also lead to other nightmares. The paint never matched just right and as if that wasn't bad enough their tank sprang a leak where it had been welded and the whole process basically had to be done a second time. If a Model A tank leaks it's leaking INSIDE the car. Not a desirable result. As a project manager I've learned to be patient and methodical which almost always takes some extra time but the end result is sometimes much more desirable. A week from now I'll have a pretty good idea whether this is going to be a viable solution or not. If it is I'll have the car on the road much faster than pulling the tank and waiting for it to be repaired and repainted. If it doesn't work I've lost a week and $100. I can afford that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 I’m just teasing you, no problem! Hope the rust remover works, I want a ride in the car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkhammer Posted June 11, 2022 Author Share Posted June 11, 2022 You want to drive, ride shotgun or rumble seat? When I get a replacement top bow I hope to find a good trimmer to help me with the top repair. 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 Drive of course! I've owned over 200 collector cars, mostly pre-war (WWII, one has to clarify these days). Some post-war but in the minority. I've owned no Model T, and only two Model A, both roadsters, a 1928 and a 1931. I've only driven the 1928, a very pleasant vehicle. So yes, drive! And of course you know I'll help you with the top repair.....though trying to insert a new bow in the middle of a top is not a trimmer's dream job! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 Model A tanks are not reproduced at a reasonable price like other cars?🤔 Or is it because it is part and parcel of the cowl assembly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkhammer Posted June 14, 2022 Author Share Posted June 14, 2022 Correct, Model A tanks are not reproduced. Being part of the cowl they are a very odd shape and would be difficult to manufacture. While they are removable from the cowl it is a pretty big job. There are at least 3 variations of Model A tanks; '28-'29 style, '30-'31 style and then late '31. My roadster is a late '31 so finding a good used replacement is a challenge as less were produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkhammer Posted June 17, 2022 Author Share Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) Well I have good news and bad news. The Rust911 did an admirable job of cleaning the interior of the tank, all but the "roof" of the inside of the tank where contact was not always optimal (although I tried to keep the tank full) was 98% clean metal. When I drained the Rust911 solution it looked like black coffee. I then rinsed with the water hose and collected lots and lots of rusty flakes and debris thru the tank outlet. The rust debris on the cloth is just a small fraction of loose stuff that came out of the tank. Some flakes were as large as a pencil eraser. So the good news is the Rust911 appeared to do a good job of removing rust right down to clean metal. The bad news is once the tank was rinsed and the scope inserted it was plain to see this tank is toast. It was so pitted the interior looks like the surface of the moon. The only thing I think keeping this tank from springing 100 weep holes must be the paint! Needless to say I am in the market now for a replacement tank. 😞 Edited June 17, 2022 by pkhammer mispelling (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 Good learning process. I have used Evapo rust and am amazed at how good it works! I also have had enough experience now with this type of product that I would also purchase the dry powder concentrate like you have done and for the same bulk need purpose. Would you trust a modern fuel tank sealing product in order to use your existing tank until you score and have ready to install your new tank? Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkhammer Posted June 18, 2022 Author Share Posted June 18, 2022 The Rust911 concentrate I purchased was not a dry powder but a concentrate liquid. In any case my answer to your question would best be answered by saying not if I can find a good replacement tank soon. I would hate to put any more money and effort into a tank in such poor condition. I'd love to have this car on the road to enjoy this summer but you know what the old saying says about the best laid plans........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 https://www.ebay.com/itm/304528353934?hash=item46e74dea8e:g:rqgAAOSwzUhiqnxU Indented and all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkhammer Posted June 18, 2022 Author Share Posted June 18, 2022 I sent a message to the seller and have not gotten a reply yet. The listing doesn't say anything about the condition of the inside of the tank. I also know a local man that may have one. -Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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