17White Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 I am working on a 1917 White truck and need information on the carburetor and the mag. The carb is a White motor company Zenith systems U5 3498. Is there a rebuilder or parts and parts diagram for this carb? I need the same info on a Eisemann G4 #768357 mag. Any help is much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) Due to the war they switched over to American Bosch and dumped Eisemann in mid 1916. The published information in the catalog was still listed as Eisemann in 1917 but from my research they were all Bosch DU4 units. White made their own carburetor as well as using the Zenith White unit.....one just sold here last month and Dandy Dave bought it. Post a photo of your machine and under hood please. Edited January 25, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 No parts are available for the Zenith but they only need fiber washers.....otherwise they are 100 percent serviceable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3macboys Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 1 hour ago, 17White said: I am working on a 1917 White truck and need information on the carburetor and the mag. The carb is a White motor company Zenith systems U5 3498. Is there a rebuilder or parts and parts diagram for this carb? I need the same info on a Eisemann G4 #768357 mag. Any help is much appreciated. Welcome aboard - if you haven't been doing a little spying before your post Ed is THE guy for you - check out his threads on his two White's and you will understand 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Also please post the serial numbers and the chassis length, as well as the tonnage if you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17White Posted January 25, 2022 Author Share Posted January 25, 2022 These are some pictures of the truck, engine and carburetor. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17White Posted January 25, 2022 Author Share Posted January 25, 2022 I don't have the length or the serial number. Do you know where the serial number is. The plate on the "firewall" is missing. This truck was bought new by my grandfather and was cosmetically reworked in about 1966. Since then it sat in a barn on the farm until about 5 days ago. We got it out and got it running (just barely) and have now started working on it. I will get the length and serial number as soon as I can find it. It has a license tag so we should have the serial number on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Nice truck........looks like a 3/4 ton unit. Rare and unusual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Im guessing it doesn’t have a starter from the factory, but adding them later was common. That was a very expensive truck when new........very expensive. You family must have had a successful business. Any early photos? What did it have for a body when new? That’s the correct carb for the truck. It’s a 45 horsepower model. Should have a four speed trans.......with the usual weird shifting pattern.......Dandy Dave where are you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Fun reading for you........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, edinmass said: No parts are available for the Zenith but they only need fiber washers.....otherwise they are 100 percent serviceable. Repair kit CS-1664 services the Zenith U-5. Contents: fuel valve (a.k.a. needle and seat), fiber washers, mounting gasket, some screws. I have not seen a diagram of the carburetor. Zenith placed all the individual parts of the STANDARD model U-5 on a white sheet in an order where they took the least amount of space, and pictured them like that. Zenith parts listings were "exception based". In other words, the parts for the STANDARD model carburetor were listed, and then a parts list of a specific carburetor would reference the standard listing; then list exceptions for the individual carburetor. Jon. Edited January 25, 2022 by carbking (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) Just to keep anyone interested in the loop: 17White called, and we are discussing the carburetor. Technical information for White has been exceptionally difficult to acquire. The most authoritative source of which I am aware (Branham) has NO useful information.. For those that are unaware, Branham published an annual book specifically for the insurance companies with make, model, engine size, serial number location, and serial number range. Branham sent questionaires to the vehicle manufacturers, and printed the data returned from the vehicle manufactures; as the data came directly from the vehicle manufacturers, it should be accurate. If one goes to either the passenger or truck section of any Branham, one finds "White did not submit any data". Zenith data shows the 1917 used a White GEC engine and used a Zenith type U-6 carburetor. Zenith first shows the U-5 as being used in 1922 on the White type GK engine. Additionally, Stromberg shows that beginning in 1918, White trucks, in addition to White engines, sold a less expensive truck with a Continental type N engine, using a Stromberg type M-1 carburetor. The Stromberg M-1 is an SAE size 1 carb (2 7/16 c-c on mounting bolts) The Zenith U-5 is an SAE size 2 carb (2 11/16 c-c) The Zenith U-6 is an SAE size 3 carb (2 15/16 c-c) Jon Edited January 25, 2022 by carbking (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gregush Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Nice thing about M-1's, they are all over the place, including eBay. Cool truck. I remember a tractor dealership in the 70s, that had a couple of those in the back lot, of about the same vintage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Here is a Bosch DU4 set up for a 1917 White car........its the best option for any four banger magneto. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 On 1/24/2022 at 11:17 PM, edinmass said: Im guessing it doesn’t have a starter from the factory, but adding them later was common. That was a very expensive truck when new........very expensive. You family must have had a successful business. Any early photos? What did it have for a body when new? That’s the correct carb for the truck. It’s a 45 horsepower model. Should have a four speed trans.......with the usual weird shifting pattern.......Dandy Dave where are you? Just saw this today Ed. Been to many Dr. Appointments lately. They say there's hope for me yet though if I can keep the iron Moth's away. Dandy Dave. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) Looks a lot like my Model 15. You have different wheels and hubs than my truck. You can find a serial number stamped in the left frame horn. Also, there should be one stamped on the top of the transmission toward the front. The floorboard lifts right out for easy access to the transmission. The transmission could be either. Direct or Overdrive. It is stamped in the floorboard. 1-2-3-D back is direct. 1-2-3- O forward will be an overdrive Trans. There is a serial list link in the thread that Ed has sent you to my truck that I eventually rescued. Any other questions just ask away Matey. Edited January 26, 2022 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 Center of the front wheel to the center of the rear wheel will give you the wheelbase. I have some info on the model 15 trucks. They had 2 different wheelbase options for the model 15. Dandy Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gregush Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 Bosch, or any magneto, suggest making sure the rotation is correct. While sure, that might be changed, but if you don't have to, one less hurdle to jump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17White Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 Got some more information. The center of axle to center of axle is 160 inches. Rear of cab to end of frame is104 inches. Across the rear frame is 34 inches. Cab to rear axle is 79 inches. There are 13 leaves in the rear springs including the small/short one. On top of the transmission where it attaches to a frame it has 152051BC. I am not sure about either of the 1's but that's what it looks like. Under that it has 3D. The floorboard looks as if it has been replaced because that wood doesn't look near as aged as the edges. There is no shift diagram. I have attached some pics of this. I only see 3 notches on the shift selector and I don't see any numbers on what I think is the left front horn, if this is the horn. Is the small lever on the frame in the picture a compression release? As ya'll can see I don't know much at all about this truck but am learning quite abit from ya'll. I really appreciate it too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 Please post a photo of the casting tag on the drivers side of the engine......we should be able to date the casting. More engine photos would be fun. Also some wheel, hub, and axel photos. Thanks........ The serial number list it at the shop, I will post it tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 It is probably a progressive transmission, in which case there is no shift pattern since it's not selective. White continued to use progressive transmissions quite late... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17White Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 Here are some more pictures. Got a video of it running and driving but can't load it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17White Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 What is a progressive transmission? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) You have to go through the gears in order... 1 - 2 - 3 etc. You can't shift from 1 to 3. Reverse is at the back... I suspect they were less complicated and, as a result, much more robust than selective transmissions which is important in a truck. By 1917 they would have been rare. They were extremely common in the first 5 years of the 20th century. The original idea is credited to Panhard et Levassor. The Panhard transmission was unusual in that reverse was a separate lever and had a double ring gear. The lever moved it over so they had the unusual quality of being able to shift through all the gears in reverse. Edited January 26, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17White Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 Ok. Reverse is all the way back, then next notch neutral, next 1st gear, next notch 2nd gear, where is 3rd gear notch or is it only 2 forward gears? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) It should be 3 or 4 forward gears. It may be 3 and there is no notch for high gear - which would probably be direct drive. Edited January 26, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17White Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) I must be missing something here unless looking at the picture you just push the shifter all the way forward without a notch to put the shifter in 3rd gear. The picture I posted only shows 4 notches. When we tried to shift up from the first notch (I assume 1st gear) it wouldn't go into the next gear and would just grind so we didn't force it. Edited January 26, 2022 by 17White (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) The grinding may be the result of the clutch dragging or getting the exact engine speed to shift. Chances are the lowest gear is very low and you would shift almost as soon as you got it rolling. Edited January 26, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17White Posted January 27, 2022 Author Share Posted January 27, 2022 I think that a good cleaning may make this problem go away. As you can see from the pictures the whole truck needs a good cleaning. Hopefully that will take place before planting season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Looking at the plug wires I’m amazed it runs. I wouldn’t run it again till you drop the pan and clean it. It looks like it will clean up nice. Do you have any family photos from the old days? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17White Posted January 27, 2022 Author Share Posted January 27, 2022 I'll have to dig some out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17White Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 edinmass here is a family picture of my grandfather the second from left supposedly at a farm meeting. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 (edited) The way the transmission shifts. The shift lever moves side to side. There are 4 forward speeds and one reverse. Top diagram is Direct. Bottom is Overdrive. It is a gate shift transmission. Edited January 28, 2022 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 (edited) TBC stamped in the Transmission. The TBC is a 1 and 1/2 ton truck. The 40 HP models did have a Decompressor. You will need to look to see if the lever has linkage on the other side. The 30 HP models like my model 15 did not have that. Also, yours has a Vacuum Governor installed. I believe the carburetor I bought recently will fit your truck if your interested although looking further the info says the engine in a TBC is the same as a 30 model. Rated at 22.5 H.P. in the trucks. Too bad the dash tag is missing. The trans serial number is July 1912. But that seems to early looking at the rest of the truck. If the number is 115205 that would put the truck at Nov 1924 which looks closer to what you have. Edited January 28, 2022 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 Take a look here for info on the on the White TBC. http://www.carsandracingstuff.com/library/w/white.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17White Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 I am interested in the carburetor. Does it need rebuilding or is it ready to go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, 17White said: I am interested in the carburetor. Does it need rebuilding or is it ready to go? I just got it and have not looked in it. It is old. First thing is we need to know the bolt pattern and throat size on what you have. I have a feeling this carb is for a 40 HP motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 Another thing you want to do is be sure that the oil system is working. This truck has a lost oil system. The oil need to drip through the sight glasses on the dash. The tank on the fire wall needs to have oil in. The oil does not recirculate like a modern engine. It needs to be drained from the pan after running for a day and the tank filled. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17White Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 The mounting bolts are 2 11/16" c to c. I'll have the measure the throat size. My biggest concern is that I have never serviced a carburetor like this one. Since my old hot rodding days (a long long time ago) I have only worked on old tractors '40s and 50's carburetors and mostly with some sort of diagram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17White Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 That's something else I was wondering about. Does it have some sort of oil pump of is it strictly gravity? The oil line from the tank on the firewall goes into the bottom side of the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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