Dandy Dave Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, LI_BENTLEY said: Lots of miss info. The truck is a model GBBE or model 15 with a GK 30 hp engine White NEVER made a car wth a progressive tranny all are 4 speed either 3D or 4D which indicates position of shift lever in 4th speed. The position left back is direct or 1 to 1 the position left forward is either 3th speed or 4th overdrive. This truck has a 3D gear box so first is right forward 2nd is right back. 3rd is left back and 4th is left forward. Oh yea reverse is in front of 1st go thru 1st into reverse and back out of reverse into 1st then back into neutral, there is no neutral between reverse and 1st only a very short out of gear space. Yes the small lever at front is a compression release. This motor has two main bearings, big ball bearings. The oil tank needs to be filled every so often. The oil pump is on side of engine and is a piston pump giving a drip thru the sight glass on dash. Oil needs to be drained via pull button on front of crankcase next to the crank on right, hold out till oil stops if no oil comes out add till it does. The serial no. should be stamped in the cross member in front or tranny. Unless older than 1918 then only on brass dash plate. What is the motor no. Located on left rear motor mount. We have determined the truck is a 1 - 1/2 ton model 20. Earlier a model TBC. The rear end and wheels are heavier, and wheel base is longer than the model 15. The shift pattern is optional as per a parts book I have here. My model 15 Truck is direct in 4th. If you read the entire thread you will see what has already be researched. Yes, The frame number is December of 1919. Edited February 17, 2022 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, 17White said: What is the best thing to flush the transmission and rear end out with? What oil do you use in the transmission and rear end? So as I understand it, the number on the crossmember frame in front of the transmission is the truck serial number? Oil would be 600 WT Steam cylinder oil. Yes. I would say that is the serial number for the truck. Drain the rear end. Take off the top cover. Clean it out with Mineral Spirits or diesel fuel or something similar. If you have it in a location that you can High Pressure wash it, that will help in places that you cannot reach. Make sure you blow all of the water out with air before filling it back up with oil. Dandy Dave! Edited February 17, 2022 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 36936 This is the number I was using....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 hours ago, edinmass said: 36936 This is the number I was using....... OK, the number off of the engine. Yes, April of 1917. The frame number ahead of the transmission is Dec 1919. This old truck has been around. Looks like it has had major components swapped around though the years. Not uncommon to have a motor swap back in it's working days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 David, we were both right! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17White Posted February 17, 2022 Author Share Posted February 17, 2022 When it’s tagged, I guess I’m to use the frame number and date? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LI_BENTLEY Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 White used the serial no. or as you call it frame no. for identification as trucks had the motors shuffled in and out as they needed repair to keep truck working. Cannot trust engine no. for that reason. Is a 1919 truck as White did not care about year of truck, they look the same from 1912 up to end of a models life. Advanced design in 1912, very dated by 1920 but they still sold because of high quality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 I spoke to 17white last night for an hour. Great guy, and the truck is in good hands. They have other family farm equipment from his grandfather dating back to 1905! And it's still running......impressive. I have no doubt the truck will be well cared for and looking tip top shape when he's done with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 16 hours ago, 17White said: When it’s tagged, I guess I’m to use the frame number and date? At this point it would not really matter which number you used. Here in New York State they want a tracing of the engine number. You will have to see what number your state will want and go with that. I wouldn't fuss too much over the date it gets registered at as long as you know what you have in the long run. Even though the numbers are several years apart it is still a very nice old vehicle and a survivor. These trucks were bought to work, and most were used up and scraped at the point they were not worth fixing any longer. It is well worth saving and preserving for future generations to see and enjoy. I have not registered my White because it is too slow on the road, and I do not want to do a total restoration on it. Dandy Dave! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 17 hours ago, 17White said: When it’s tagged, I guess I’m to use the frame number and date? Yes, the truck is a 1919. So register it with the frame number on the title. If your state doesn't require a title, get one anyways.......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17White Posted February 20, 2022 Author Share Posted February 20, 2022 Haven't taken then magneto off yet and before I do I want to make sure I won't have any trouble timing the engine. I am used to timing farm tractor mags that have an impulse. How hard is it and how do you time the mag on a 1917 white truck? At least it has a 1917 engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) Pull the front plug, bring it up to top dead center. Then take the cap off the mag and take a photo of where the rotor is. Usually the drive can only be off 180 degrees..........on my 17 car we had nothing to go on, so I made leather drive hearty disks with slots in them to play with the timing. We got it figured out fairly easily......less than fifteen minutes. Then I replaced the disks with normal single holes. On these engines, timing isn’t critical.....as there is no advance on the mag........it’s a try and see proposition with the steering lever to find the best spot driving down the road.......on my car we just leave it in the same place. Be sure to set the mag up so it can only fire one degree AFTER top dead center.......if done this way, it can never kick back and break your arm. Thus the “most retarded” position on the wheel should be at least one degree past top dead. It’s a great safety feature. My car has a factory 12 volt starter and it spins easily. I usually turn the car over with the mag grounded and then after a few turns hit the switch.......starts easy every time. Edited February 21, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LI_BENTLEY Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 The motor number is 1919, White numbered everything in order so this is the 36936 th GK motor made and a lot of other type motors were made at the same time and sequencely numbered in their families GA's GEC's GF's and so forth. Only the Serial/ frame number can be used to date a White. On the earlier Whites this can be difficult as they did not stamp the serial number in the frame, only on the dash plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17White Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 How many pounds of compression should I expect on number one cylinder? It doesn't seem to be very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) Within 10% of the other cylinders. What are the compression readings of all of the cylinders? Edited February 21, 2022 by Larry Schramm (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17White Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 I knew about the 10% but I was wondering what the "normal" pressure would be for the average vintage white truck/car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 On the thirty horsepower model..........45 would be ok. Do a wet and dry test. Hold the throttle open, all plugs out........and crank away. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LI_BENTLEY Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 I found the easiest way to do a compression test on a non starter engine is to remove the plug, ground the wire, start motor on 3 cylinders put compression gage into plug hole , open throttle full until gage maxes out, close throttle shut off motor replace everything and repeat on rest of engine. If doing this on a dual ignition motor don't forget to remove other plug wire for cylinder you are testing. You notice I use either word for the power unit just to frustrate people who have nothing better to do than noticing that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17White Posted February 23, 2022 Author Share Posted February 23, 2022 How does the compression release work on the 1919 White truck motor. I know the release lever is on the side of the frame and pulls a lever on the back of the engine but what does it do in the engine? I think the release may be stuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) Slides the camshaft so it only has half the lift...........I have been told this, haven’t taken the engine apart to see how it functions .............funky but common way to do things before 1920. Works great on my White......if I’m driving down the road and can’t go over 45 mph......it’s because I forgot to release it. On the car with electric start, it can be activated from the front frame horn or inside the drivers cab. Edited February 23, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Factory photo.......just found. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) Car foot compression release........number 36 Edited February 23, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 The gears on the shaft in the steering box show no separate part number......thus you may have to pull the box out to get any new gear you make on the shaft and locked into position........look close before you make gear. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17White Posted February 23, 2022 Author Share Posted February 23, 2022 Thanks for the pictures. Gear at number 4 on the truck looks good. It doesn't look like pot metal but will know more when it gets cleaned up better. The gear that is broken meshes with number 4 and looks like a half or third of a gear not a complete round gear. As for the compression release, the only control is on the left frame horn. A small cable runs from the lever on the frame horn to a lever that turns a horizontal shaft that moves another lever on the back of and in about the center of the back of the engine. The reason I am thinking there might be a compression release problem is I can't move the lever on the back of the engine and that when I was trying to find top dead on number 1 cylinder I got no air with my finger over the spark plug hole. Although I got a little pressure from the fitting for the explosion whistle. I have not been able to check the compression of all cylinders with a gauge yet. Haven't had time yet. Hope I don't have to look for an overhauler. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Unlikely you will need outside help. As long as no rings are broken, you can do valves in place.....most likely scenario. Rings often stick after sitting fifty years. Pull the plugs, and put 4oz of ATF in each hole, and let soak. Turn crank half a turn, and resoak with ATF. It will clean and break stuck rings free. You need to go through the mag, fuel system, water pump, ect......and drop the pan to clean it BEFORE you run it again. I ran SAE 5 weight for about half an hour after sorting under hood, drained, and then ran SAE 40. No problems. You need to disassemble the front end to clean out rock hard grease, and reassemble. Everything is easy to deal with, and all wear is done in bronze or steel bushings. Simple lathe spinning. Also do all the wheel bearings. Flush the trans and rear end several times. Use a heat lamp to get the 100 year old sludge to flow. Call me anytime if you need help or encouragement. If I didn’t have too many cars, I would buy a truck like yours. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) Not easy to see the part number for the gears in my truck parts book either. Must have been part of an assembly? At least it is not clear. 64 is a spark steering gear rod eccentric. Spark control pinion has a part number listed between number 65 and 66 but not shown on the diagram. Have a look. Dandy Dave. Edited February 23, 2022 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 I think here. It makes sense. Dandy Dave! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Helped a buddy with a 1928 White truck today. The spark lever did not have gears, just a lever on the end the went to the rod that attached to the mag. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) Charles.......be sure and hurry to order the parts before they run out of stock! 😎 Edited February 24, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Also listed in the book is that a lot of parts changed at chassis serial 146826 which was produced in June of 1927. You can see this number at the left of the page with "To" and "From" at the left of the page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 1 minute ago, edinmass said: Charles.......be sure an hurry to order the parts before they run out of stock! 😎 Ed, Guys like you and I just beat this stuff to death. It is addictive pulling every bit of info we can from the mania we are on at the time. 🙃😜🤪😝. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dandy Dave said: Ed, Guys like you and I just beat this stuff to death. It is addictive pulling every bit of info we can from the mania we are on at the time. 🙃😜🤪😝. We all have the same sickness............😝 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LI_BENTLEY Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 The compression release works by pushing the camshaft forward then a lobe on the back side of the exhaust lobe position opens the exhaust valve for 1/2 the compression stroke. You get enough compression to start up but does not run good, all White owners have done this, you know right away no power. The cam is spring loaded to return to normal position after lever returned to run position, works good for starting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17White Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 Dave you circled the parts I need but ya'll forgot to send me the address to order them. Love to see the spark advance set-up on your friends '28 truck. Ed, I'd order the parts today but no address. Wish it was that easy. Ed, will also do as you advised to free the engine components and see what happens. As everyone can tell, I'm throwing a lot of things out there while working up a restoration plan while working on the restoration. Really makes a lot of sense I know. Again I appreciate all the help everyone is giving me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 10 hours ago, 17White said: Dave you circled the parts I need but ya'll forgot to send me the address to order them. Love to see the spark advance set-up on your friends '28 truck. Ed, I'd order the parts today but no address. Wish it was that easy. Ed, will also do as you advised to free the engine components and see what happens. As everyone can tell, I'm throwing a lot of things out there while working up a restoration plan while working on the restoration. Really makes a lot of sense I know. Again I appreciate all the help everyone is giving me. Parts Book Lists 634-642 E. Gray St. Louisville, Ky. Via December 1927. All you need is a time transporter Charles. 😃 I think that's where Ed gets his endless supply of rare parts from. 😉 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Since we are talking Whites I was always fascinated by the early trucks. The Buick Dealer I worked for in the 1970s also handled White trucks in the 1930s and 40s. But my favorite was this example at the West Elizabeth Lumber company always displayed in their store window. This was about 10 miles from my house up-river from Monongahela, PA. Back in the late 1960s I always had my parents drive past the building in hopes of a view of the truck just before jumping on route 51 on the way to Pittsburgh. I wonder where it is now? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17White Posted February 27, 2022 Author Share Posted February 27, 2022 Does it hurt to sandblast a magneto if you protect the end cap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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