Would you go electric?

[1912Staver]

I am in my mid 60's , so with luck 20 years left for hobby cars { and pretty much everything else }  So I don't think the issue of being forced to own an EV will factor into my life.  For daily transport I need a simple , sub $10,000.00 car.  I don't see that happening with an EV. At least not an EV that is actually usefull for anything other than short trips to the corner market. 

 More than once when my work sched. prevented me from making the run down to the Portland Swap Meet with my main group of friends in the truck we usually use , I have buzzed down the next day in my Accent. 

 Loaded it to the gunnels with Swap Meet finds { things like the Hudson drum to drum rear end } and made the trip back up to Vancouver. 

 A bit nut's I know , but on a very restricted budget you do what you have to do to participate. 

 Even if I had a very cheap EV I would still be looking at a $30,000.00 plus { Canadian market pricing } vehicle. And I would not be using it as a very small truck. In fact if I had $30,000.00 to spend on a daily driver my choice would be much more along the lines of a 5 - 7 year old Ford Ranger and keep $15,000.00 in the shop construction fund. 

 Until the entry level price gets down to about 1/2 of what is currently on the market I just can't see an EV becoming an everyman's car.

Mid price and up , yes they are an option. But a great many people below that mid point in the pricing scale need transport. $ 30,000.00 is about my entire yearly take home since retirement. It will be a frosty day indeed when I am going to spend that sort of $ on a daily driver.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

6 minutes ago, Avanti Bill said:

And this isn't political?

 My thoughts as well. 

 

 Sources cited seem to be self serving, imo.   They may be correct, but as someone somewhere once said, statistics can say what ever one wants them to say, paraphrased.  😁

 

  Ben

 

 

[Peter Gariepy]

Ford starting shipping its new hybrid Maverick Compact Truck.  Price starting under $20k.  Estimated 40mpg.

 

https://www.ford.com/trucks/maverick/?cks=66786315309&emailid=MAVRK_UtilityYourWay_CREATIVE3C

[bryankazmer]

I'm not attacking your logic and choices at all, but you are basically saying you don't intend to buy a new vehicle.  Lots of good reasons to take that position, but don't expect to influence the decision making of those who make and sell new vehicles. 

 

It might be interesting to consider what led to gasoline-powered vehicles becoming the predominant technology over electric, steam,diesel and horse.  How did refueling and road infrastructure get put in place?  What did the government get involved in?  Horse and steam (use in railroads) started with more fully developed technology than gasoline.

 

 

[bryankazmer]

4 minutes ago, Peter Gariepy said:

Ford starting shipping its new hybrid Maverick Compact Truck.  Price starting under $20k.

 

https://www.ford.com/trucks/maverick/?cks=66786315309&emailid=MAVRK_UtilityYourWay_CREATIVE3C

It will be interesting to see how it goes over.  To me, FWD and a CVT is a driveline combination that it's hard for an enthusiast to like , but it's acceptable to a lot of folks.  Handling will be poor, but it's a truck so that's normal.  Hybrid solves most of the electric range concerns, at a cost and complexity penalty.  Price is right, although good luck getting one close to base equipment.

[1912Staver]

Canadian base price on the Maverick is listed on Ford Canada's website as $25,900.00 . That will end up at close to $30 G's after the dust settles. Tax, P.D.I. etc. 

Getting better , but still well beyond what I could spend. I have my doubts a person could actually one at base price. Perhaps with a 6 or 8 month pre order.

 I will have to have a look at what they are going for in 10 years. They could be the answer to what my last daily driver will be.

They also all seem to be 4 doors with very small boxes.  Totally useless to me. I want to buy a truck to use it as a truck.

Other than trailer towing my Accent will hold as much. actually better for dimensional  lumber 

Edited October 27, 2021 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Peter Gariepy]

5 minutes ago, bryankazmer said:

Price is right, although good luck getting one close to base equipment.

 

True of all new cars for sure.

[Peter Gariepy]

5 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Canadian base price on the Maverick is listed on Ford Canada's website as $25,900.00 . That will end up at close to $30 G's after the dust settles. Tax, P.D.I. etc. 

Getting better , but still well beyond what I could spend. I have my doubts a person could actually one at base price. Perhaps with a 6 or 8 month pre order.

 I will have to have a look at what they are going for in 10 years. They could be the answer to what my last daily driver will be.

They also all seem to be 4 doors with very small boxes.  Totally useless to me. I want to buy a truck to use it as a truck.

 

Your unique needs might not be met, but I suspect, given Ford's success selling small trucks, this variation will become popular on price alone considering a base Ranger starts at $25,000.  That it's a hybrid may not even be relavent.

[1912Staver]

I am not really sure what is unique about wanting a truck that actually is usefull as a truck. 

 I am not in the Taxi business, the justification in my life for a truck is to move objects , not people. My Accent seats 4 but I doubt it has 3 people or more in it more than 3 or 4 times a year.  Wife has a vehicle that seats 5 and if people are being moved we usually use it.

 

One of the best vehicles for my needs seems to be a several years old Ranger swapped with a VW TDI engine. They are becoming very popular. A reasonably easy swap with kits available. 

 Usefull vehicle that is cheap to operate.

Edited October 27, 2021 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[bryankazmer]

23 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Other than trailer towing my Accent will hold as much. actually better for dimensional  lumber 

I understand - my daily driver hatch is normally configured with rear seats folded and tarp in place.  I can carry a limited amount of 8' lumber, or a 12' kayak (local transport only on that, hatch obviously open).

[bryankazmer]

10 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

 

One of the best vehicles for my needs seems to be a several years old Ranger swapped with a VW TDI engine. They are becoming very popular. A reasonably easy swap with kits available. 

 Usefull vehicle that is cheap to operate.

Not sure about the emissions checks/registration requirements by you, but these were the engines involved in "Dieselgate."  My wife had a Golf TDI with a stick, and it would give over 50 mpg on the road.  Then we found out why.  So be aware.

[1912Staver]

I bring lots of 12 ft stuff home. Like I mentioned previously the right hand front seat comes out in about 1 minute.  I have also moved a number of smaller , sports car engines. MG engines and the like. They easily fit next to me with the right hand seat removed. Two people and a 2 x4 and chain. Easy in , easy out. 

 Local to me the emissions testing program we had has been scrapped. An expensive boondoggle.  No effect on registration. People are running a wide variety of swapped / chipped diesels in my area. Gas is very expensive in my area , people come up with all sorts of work arounds.

Edited October 27, 2021 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Peter Gariepy]

24 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

I am not really sure what is unique about wanting a truck that actually is usefull as a truck. 

 I am not in the Taxi business, the justification in my life for a truck is to move objects , not people. My Accent seats 4 but I doubt it has 3 people or more in it more than 3 or 4 times a year.  Wife has a vehicle that seats 5 and if people are being moved we usually use it.

 

One of the best vehicles for my needs seems to be a several years old Ranger swapped with a VW TDI engine. They are becoming very popular. A reasonably easy swap with kits available. 

 Usefull vehicle that is cheap to operate.

 

The merits of the usefulness of any vehicle is very much unique to the individual.
Some it might be the cargo bed (like you). Others that it seats 4 (families for example). Others the price.  Others might be the MPG. To each his own.
Another example:  You might find a Corvette to be worthless for your needs, but that doesn't mean there isn't a market for them.

Swapping a TDI engine into a Ranger has its merits, but in the big scheme of things, its a drop in the bucket compared to the average car buyer who simply will buy what they want, and never even consider a engine swap.

 

Back to the topic:  Many here obviously think an EV or hybrid will never fill their unique needs.  So be it. Don't buy one. But the Maverick is a perfect example of a unique hybrid that will sell well.  Of course time will tell.  Ford will 500,000-1,000,000 in the next twelve months. I'm sure a big percent will be the Maverick.

 

[1912Staver]

We are talking daily drivers here so not sure Corvettes really come into it. One of my hobby cars is an MGA, but I don't use it for trips for building material or swap meets.

 But I agree , the average consumer isn't going to be looking at engine swaps to get a perfect for their needs vehicle. 

In fact the average person probably does not even need a truck, although many seem to buy them. 

 And only the lunatic fringe would attend an old car swap meet, let alone buy something that needs to be carted home.

[bryankazmer]

I've used a NA Miata, a Jaguar XJS, an Alfa Spider Veloce as daily drivers.  So I think Peter's point of everybody's got different perceived needs and priorities applies.

 

I do personally agree that most truck buyers' "need" for a truck is more perceived than real, but they are free to buy them. 

[Peter Gariepy]

8 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

In fact the average person probably does not even need a truck, although many seem to buy them. 

 

Need?  Maybe not.  

Want for sure:  Ford's sales are about 50% light trucks.  So sales of the Maverick might very well be high, truck or not.

[1912Staver]

Before I was a homeowner / then father, I used my MGA as a daily driver { 8 months of the year, usually a beater Corolla for the winter } for 10 years.

 However I could always borrow my fathers pickup when I needed it. Father has been gone for 3 years now , but I still have his last  F 150 for temp. use when I need to use my car trailer. We have a modest fee, Temporary Operation permit available here, slight extra charge and towing is legal.  I only need the trailer 3 or 4 times most years, so far cheaper than year round plates and insurance.  It's around $40.00 a day so I use the car for 95% of needs. But obviously the Accent won't tow a loaded tandem axle car trailer { or an empty one for that matter }. Not so sure a Maverick would either, but I could be wrong.

Edited October 27, 2021 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[John348]

If we go back to original question 

 

"Would you go electric?" really should be a two part question.  The question should be; Do you purchase or lease a new vehicle every 3-5 years? if you do would you consider an electric vehicle?  People who purchase used cars 10 years or older from private sales are not really in the manufacturers best interest.  The auto companies are in the business to sell new products to be financed and consumed, so they can finance another product to be consumed. 

 

To make this more of a scientific pole,  So how many people plan on purchasing or leasing a new vehicle every 3-5 years that commented on the electric vehicles?   

 

My son just finishing off a huge project of charging stations for Hertz at the NYC airport location this was going on for at least two years, by the way solar supplied primary power, political? Surprising accusation considering the wind was blowing from the other direction when this project started?

[Peter Gariepy]

1 minute ago, John348 said:

...Surprising accusation considering the wind was blowing from the other direction when this project started?

 

Key words being "blowing" and "wind" relative to some...

[1912Staver]

From what I can see on Ford Canada's site the 4000 lb tow package is only available on the Lariet model. Still pretty limited if the trailer is loaded.

That one ends up at $37,295.00 plus tax as per Fords website. So about 40 G's sitting in my driveway A lot of money for a somewhat limited vehicle.

Edited October 27, 2021 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Peter Gariepy]

"Planning" to buy a new car soon? No.  "Considering" purchasing a new car soon? Yes.

If I do purchase a new vehicle a EV will not be eliminated out of hand, like many here.  

I'll consider all my options, and for many reasons, EVs will be near the top of the list.

 

Example:  

My daily driver is a 1984 VW Vanagon. (See, I drive old cars, contrary to many's opinion)   I like the form factor for many reasons. Just my personal preference.
VW has announced a new EV van to ship in 2023 (source) and I very much am considering it as my next daily driver.  Form factor, EV power, and overall features intrigue me. Price, not so much.

[bryankazmer]

J348 is right - if you are not a potential new car buyer, you are not relevant to the car company's planning. 

I am looking at replacing my DD soon, but am not very happy with the options on the market right now.  I know I am not a mainstream buyer. I don't want a truck or CUV/SUV, they have inherently bad physics - that eliminates the vast majority of offerings.  I see the square torque curve and operating cost of electrics as a plus.  I see the battery range, on a winter highway trip, as a negative.  No politics, just engineering.

[Peter Gariepy]

Just now, 1912Staver said:

From what I can see on Ford Canada's site the 4000 lb tow package is only available on the Lariet model. Still pretty limited if the trailer is loaded.

That one ends up at $37,295.00 plus tax as per Fords website. A lot of money for a somewhat limited vehicle.

 

We get it. Not for you.  But that doesnt mean the Hybrid Maverick Ford Truck will not sell.

[bryankazmer]

I'm not saying it's not a lot of money, but it's I think a bit below the average new car sale price.

 

But yuh caint roll coal with it.

[Peter Gariepy]

1 minute ago, bryankazmer said:

But yuh caint roll coal with it.

 

LOL... thats a new one.

[Ronnie]

This topic is locked for the following reasons.  If you liked this topic go back and read through it as much as you like. Then maybe you will see how out of place it is on a forum dedicated to antique cars.

 

1. Off topic of antique cars. The title even says so. The rules state: "The intent of providing these forums is to further the aim of preserving the history of the automobile, motorcycle and truck industry."
    
2. There are political comments laced all through many of the posts.  Both outright and veiled.
    
3. Discussion of modifying vehicles. (swapping VW engines into Fords etc.)  This violates forum rules that state "Discussion of modified vehicles will be removed including: street rods, hot rods or similar vehicles."

There are many more reasons to lock this topic but I'm not taking the time to list all of the posts that border on being silly and are WAY off topic.

 

Yes, our forum administrator was right in the middle of all this but that doesn't open the door for a free for all.