Radiator overflowing 1932 Nash

[Packardfrank]

I have just purchased my first prewar car at 1932 Nash model 970 with a straight eight motor. It is running at about 190 degrees when hot and coolant drops out the overflow. What steps do I follow to diagnose this issue?? Thank You

Edited January 30, 2021 by Packardfrank
To ad pictures (see edit history)

[Marty Roth]

190 degrees is not excessive when running.

Thankfully is is dropping, and not pouring out the overflow.

One thought is that you may be overfilling the radiator.

That was initially an issue with my 1930 Packard and 1937 Buick, as well as the 1915 Hudson - a learning experience !

 

This is not a pressurized system, as in modern vehicles.

My initial suggestion is that you only fill the radiator to where you can look down into it and fill only as high as the top of the fins.

Expansion is normal, so dripping out of the overflow would be expected when filled to the top.

Expect to add coolant on a semi-regfular basis.

Please let us know of your progress-

and please add pictures of your car - we appreciate pictures,

and good luck with your Nash.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Marty Roth
typo, and additional note (see edit history)

[Packardfrank]

Thanks Marty! Pictures added

[Flivverking]

What nice machine to have with great drivabilty!

Keep an eye on the coolant and learn the car..

.As others mention coolant  finds its own level.

If it keeps over flowing thus reducing capacity and starts running hotter ,expanding more and overflowing more..Then worry.

Get it on the road for a long run and some stop and go driving and see how stable the heat and coolant level is when you can.

Enjoy that black beast.

 

Here's a picture of my '32 690 Nash. I had in the mid '80s . Great running and driving smooth car.

I coach painted (brush job) with NOS brushable "auto enamel."

Yes..it had aftermarket sealed beam lights and painted chrome.But the interior was mint.. LOL.

[Packardfrank]

Thank you so much

[C Carl]

This old beater doesn’t overheat.  It it did when I got it. Previous owner fought a losing battle after doing exactly the right thing. Took it to a radiator shop who pronounced the radiator in good shape. It wasn’t . Guys at the radiator shop had never seen a 4” thick honeycomb radiator before. Previous owner rebuilt the water pump. Still ran too hot. He put a mechanical temp gauge in it, and watched it overheat. In the process, he cracked the r.h. cyl. head. That’s where I entered the picture. New radiator and a replacement r.h. cyl. head later, and the old thing never gets out of the 170s under the most trying conditions. Usually it is reluctant to even hit 150.  Pulls long steep grades in ambient temps just under 100, into strong headwinds. 114 degrees in ‘Vegas. But 1924 and 1925 dual water pump Cadillacs  are known for running cool. But this is a 1927, substantially re-engineered with a single water pump. And they run even cooler ! Just the way they are. I don’t know about your car, but tell us the conditions it is running in where it is at 190. Just as Marty says, there is nothing at all wrong with 190. Lots of things right about it. But can you pull a long steep grade into a 30 mph headwind on a 100 degree day and stay at 190 ? Oh and FY very important I : Slow these old crates way down into strong headwinds. The drag coefficient is so high, that you could fry the mill if you hurry along.

 

There are other reasons a car can overheat. But first let us know the conditions you are driving in. Later we might recommend a trip to the radiator shop. And if they pronounce the radiator good at that point, other diagnostics  will be in order. You are in extremely good hands here. You have a very cool car ! Welcome Packardfrank !   -   Cadillac Carl 

 

 

[Mark Shaw]

• One of the first things to check is the hose on the suction side of the water pump.  As the rubber gets old it becomes more flexible with heat and may be partially collapsing.  This starves the pump and will create foam in severe cases.  
• You cannot see it collapse while driving, or even when stopped with the engine running.
• Check to see if the hose has a spiral wire in it to keep it from collapsing, or just replace it with a new hose with the wire.

[Packardfrank]

8 hours ago, C Carl said:

This old beater doesn’t overheat.  It it did when I got it. Previous owner fought a losing battle after doing exactly the right thing. Took it to a radiator shop who pronounced the radiator in good shape. It wasn’t . Guys at the radiator shop had never seen a 4” thick honeycomb radiator before. Previous owner rebuilt the water pump. Still ran too hot. He put a mechanical temp gauge in it, and watched it overheat. In the process, he cracked the r.h. cyl. head. That’s where I entered the picture. New radiator and a replacement r.h. cyl. head later, and the old thing never gets out of the 170s under the most trying conditions. Usually it is reluctant to even hit 150.  Pulls long steep grades in ambient temps just under 100, into strong headwinds. 114 degrees in ‘Vegas. But 1924 and 1925 dual water pump Cadillacs  are known for running cool. But this is a 1927, substantially re-engineered with a single water pump. And they run even cooler ! Just the way they are. I don’t know about your car, but tell us the conditions it is running in where it is at 190. Just as Marty says, there is nothing at all wrong with 190. Lots of things right about it. But can you pull a long steep grade into a 30 mph headwind on a 100 degree day and stay at 190 ? Oh and FY very important I : Slow these old crates way down into strong headwinds. The drag coefficient is so high, that you could fry the mill if you hurry along.

 

There are other reasons a car can overheat. But first let us know the conditions you are driving in. Later we might recommend a trip to the radiator shop. And if they pronounce the radiator good at that point, other diagnostics  will be in order. You are in extremely good hands here. You have a very cool car ! Welcome Packardfrank !   -   Cadillac Carl 

 

 

Thanks Carl!! I’m new to prewar, can I remove the radiator without taking the front of the car( shroud hood etc) apart?? Thanks

[Packardfrank]

8 hours ago, C Carl said:

This old beater doesn’t overheat.  It it did when I got it. Previous owner fought a losing battle after doing exactly the right thing. Took it to a radiator shop who pronounced the radiator in good shape. It wasn’t . Guys at the radiator shop had never seen a 4” thick honeycomb radiator before. Previous owner rebuilt the water pump. Still ran too hot. He put a mechanical temp gauge in it, and watched it overheat. In the process, he cracked the r.h. cyl. head. That’s where I entered the picture. New radiator and a replacement r.h. cyl. head later, and the old thing never gets out of the 170s under the most trying conditions. Usually it is reluctant to even hit 150.  Pulls long steep grades in ambient temps just under 100, into strong headwinds. 114 degrees in ‘Vegas. But 1924 and 1925 dual water pump Cadillacs  are known for running cool. But this is a 1927, substantially re-engineered with a single water pump. And they run even cooler ! Just the way they are. I don’t know about your car, but tell us the conditions it is running in where it is at 190. Just as Marty says, there is nothing at all wrong with 190. Lots of things right about it. But can you pull a long steep grade into a 30 mph headwind on a 100 degree day and stay at 190 ? Oh and FY very important I : Slow these old crates way down into strong headwinds. The drag coefficient is so high, that you could fry the mill if you hurry along.

 

There are other reasons a car can overheat. But first let us know the conditions you are driving in. Later we might recommend a trip to the radiator shop. And if they pronounce the radiator good at that point, other diagnostics  will be in order. You are in extremely good hands here. You have a very cool car ! Welcome Packardfrank !   -   Cadillac Carl 

 

 

Car will be running at about 4000 ft elevation near Prescott Az

[Packardfrank]

2 hours ago, Mark Shaw said:

• One of the first things to check is the hose on the suction side of the water pump.  As the rubber gets old it becomes more flexible with heat and may be partially collapsing.  This starves the pump and will create foam in severe cases.  
• You cannot see it collapse while driving, or even when stopped with the engine running.
• Check to see if the hose has a spiral wire in it to keep it from collapsing, or just replace it with a new hose with the wire.

Found a leaking hose on the suction side. Just replaced with reinforced hose. Thank you very much

[John_Mereness]

The radiator seeks its "own level" and it will puke out excess upon expansion (the goal is to figure out what that level is without making a huge mess under hood or under car).  Basically, you are not filling radiator to top, but need some degree over the top of the radiator fins (1/4 inch, 1/2 inch, 1 inch, 2 inches, or ...).  After it is done puking for a while then see if level stays consistent.  If it just keeps puking or runs over say the 190 degrees you reference, then you need to be looking at timing, compression, potential cracks, thermostat, lower radiator hoses without springs in them to prevent collapse, water pumps, radiator and block cleanliness, and that list goes on and on - but good people here will guide you.  

[John_Mereness]

2 hours ago, Packardfrank said:

Found a leaking hose on the suction side. Just replaced with reinforced hose. Thank you very much

Also needs a wire spring wire in hose to prevent collapse of hose under suction 

[John_Mereness]

2 hours ago, Packardfrank said:

Thanks Carl!! I’m new to prewar, can I remove the radiator without taking the front of the car( shroud hood etc) apart?? Thanks

I have left hood on cars during radiator repairs (when no one around to help me), but it hinders access - I usually just put an eye hook in garage ceiling and then wire hood to stay in position. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[C Carl]

5 hours ago, Packardfrank said:

Thanks Carl!! I’m new to prewar, can I remove the radiator without taking the front of the car( shroud hood etc) apart?? Thanks

Shroud and hood, (I just learned the new trick above about wiring the hood in place - great idea for some instances !), yes, but very little of the etc. BUT DONT START PULLING THE RAD. AT THIS POINT ! Although removing the radiator is a relatively easy job, the problem as per above may lie elsewhere. However, I use the word “problem” with some degree of confidence. Your Earthly Southwestern Paradise, with all of the scenic driving opportunities available, will really put your cooling system to task on long Summer drives. Elevations and grades at expected ambient Arizona temperatures, will push an unpressurized system to boil if it is not in tip-top shape. 190 degrees in just normal Winter driving, spells trouble ahead for you. Make fixing this problem a priority. You want to put many trouble free miles on soon.

 

Do you have any history of work done on your car ? As I mentioned, I had a lot of information, but some of it was WRONG ! The radiator shop just didn’t understand the type of radiator the Cad had, and the “delicate” nature of the beast. You probably (?) have a tube and fin radiator, (my ‘27 does now), but in any case, drive your Nash to the best radiator shop in the area. Look for one with an experienced old guy. Have them do their evaluation work,  then pick their brains, and your path forward will be much clearer. If you would like to make a bit of a mess, with help available here, some of the learning curve could be “enjoyed” 🥴on your part. As I mentioned, work history , and even more so , RECENT work history, may allow you to skip a step here and there. On the other hand , some serious old car tourers routinely and preventatively rebuild the rads on new acquisitions. You want to be a serious old car tourer. The experience of operating ancient transportation technology hour after hour after hour, is the closest thing to a time machine I have ever encountered. And you hope not to have to exercise the tools you do carry, cell phone and AAA card even less so.     
 

If you look out over the hood in the above picture on the route to the Valley of Death, you can make out the operating temperature shown on the Motometer. You will have to click into high resolution to see a faint horizontal line above the top level of the red fluid. That is nominally ideal operating temperature. I am a little below that, was probably around 150+ on the mechanical gauge at that moment. Outside temp mid 90s, elevation probably around sea level (?), headwind 30+, speed 25mph. A little after noon, the road was being “air cooled”, but still contributed some radiated infrared to the mix. Early April. Three months later, the temp might have been 115-120. Sun closer to overhead. I expect I might have got up to 180 or so under those conditions. Have not seen that engine temp yet, but I would like to.

 

Well, that should do it from me for now. In closing, I should mention that it does not get as hot inside these boxy oldies as you might think . Since all the glass is vertical, the car is not quite the greenhouse it appears. There will be window positions to give significant relief.

 

This book should be in the library of all old car nuts. 10-15 bucks for a loose old copy like this. The chapter shown gives an account of severe duty service for which 1924 Cadillacs were selected. Temps from below freezing, up to 130. Overloaded cars driven hard where no roads existed. The operators of the service said that if they could have found better cars, they would have selected them instead. I was reading this chapter which convinced me I had to find one of these tough cars for myself.     -   CC 

 

 

 

[Packardfrank]

Tremendous help! Thanks for passing on some wisdom!!

[C Carl]

Oops : Hey Frank, I just realized that I might have caused some confusion regarding tough old 1924 Cadillacs. Since you are a new one of us here, you probably did not know about my ‘24 7 passenger touring. This , and my ‘27 are unrestored originals with all the pluses and minuses that implies. The ‘24 was repainted in original colors many decades ago, while the worn green paint of the ‘27 is still original. These cars run well. Obviously the ‘27 treads fearlessly and flawlessly anywhere. The engine in the ‘24 with 60 some thousand miles is a little tired. It has always been maintained well. The bearings are just fine, and it pulls strong, needless to say runs very cool, so I will just keep it up on 20W/50 synthetic oil, and STP. You can see how much we all love pictures here !    -   Carl 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by C Carl
Add runs cool (see edit history)

[Packardfrank]

[Packardfrank]

[C Carl]

Assumptions. We need to assume things, but looking back on life, some of our assumptions have got us in trouble. Say I make an assumption that your car has a cooling problem. Maybe not ? Only picture of your car, wheels down and outside, shows it in a relatively cold operating environment. Assume for a moment that a previous owner enjoyed driving it in cold weather. (Does it have a heater ?) . Say he cleverly set it up with a proper thermostat to let it run 190 in cold weather. I would love to be able to do that as I do like to drive in cold weather. In the case of my cool running Cadillacs, I have to resort to blocking off parts of my radiators with baffles on cold days. Temporary easy to adjust solutions, but far from ideal. You can roll along in the cold, but can overheat when climbing long steep grades if you have blocked off too much. A proper thermostatically controlled system will open things up when needed. But I have to get out and reduce or eliminate the baffles. I mention this to illustrate how little we really know at the present time. I suppose if I could test your car, I would take it up a pretty good hill if I were driving fully warmed up on a cold Winter day. If it maintains 190 under a very good load, maybe that is just what it is set up to do. If it heats up, just head back down hill,  now knowing that the cooling system needs work. In any case, the car would have to be set up for when the season warms up.

 

Assumptions, maybe way off base, but I am kind of thinking out loud here. The picture got me to thinking in a new way, no matter how long a shot. I guess the easy way to start things out would be to interrogate a/the earlier owner(s) if possible. Where did the car previously live ?    -   Carl

 

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by C Carl
Spelling (see edit history)

[Packardfrank]

Car has been stored for the last 3 years. Has been serviced to get it up and running. Bought from estate of second owner. Car lived it’s entire life in the Portland area. It is now outside Prescott Az. Snow was outside when we took it off the trailer but we won’t be driving it in severe weather. Prior owner has passed . The car underwent a frame off restoration in the mid 1990s

[Packardfrank]

I have replaced the leaking hose. Upon using the shop instant read thermometer, the radiator is cool and the block is getting up to 200 degrees rather quickly. I am assuming a flow issue. Next step to check thermostat and water pump🧐🧐

[C Carl]

Hi Frank,

any new developments here ?    -    Carl

[Packardfrank]

14 hours ago, C Carl said:

Hi Frank,

any new developments here ?    -    Carl

Hello Carl! Thanks for checking in. Car was pushing coolant due to a head gasket issue. Block was full of bars leaks. Oh well . Buyer beware. We will fix it but I’m kicking myself for not doing a better job of inspecting the car. Thought I was too sharp to be fooled by a slippery car salesman!! Apparently not! Take care

[31nash880]

Wondering if you got this car up and going. Have become interested in Nash's since acquiring a 1931 880 about 2 years ago.

[Packardfrank]

Just got the block back from the machine shop. Cylinders had pin holes so we had the engine sleeved.rods are out for babbit. Need to find a couple rings and we can start putting her back together.

[31nash880]

How are things coming along?

[Packardfrank]

She is starting to go back together. Painfully slow but moving forward. Fingers crossed!! Thanks for checking in

[31nash880]

Has been awhile.  Wondering how things are coming along. 

Don't know if you saw what happened to mine. Went for a ride with my dog. Great day and ride till a babbit bearing came apart. On hold right now since it has a crack in the block.

[Oldtech]

Yikes!