64 Wildcat Disc Brakes

[Wildkitty64]

Looking for anyone's opinion on upgrading a 64 Wildcat convertible to front disc brakes?    Currently in the process of semi-restoring my uncle's car and have been looking at the kits available for the upgrade - brake kits and the booster/master package.   Worth it?   Anyone have a company they've had success with without breaking the bank?

 

Thanks!!

 

Steve

[joe_padavano]

The real question is, how do you plan to use the car? If this is just a weekend driver to the local cruise night and back, properly maintained and adjusted stock brakes will be more than adequate (though I'd probably use the 62-66 Caddy dual circuit M/C for redundancy). If you plan to really drive it, then a conversion might be worth it. Unfortunately, many aftermarket kits, including brand name ones, are poorly designed and do not really upgrade the braking capability. These cars are not popular, so the aftermarket brake vendors don't spend a lot of time really developing and testing their kits under the full range of real world conditions. Suffice to say that the factory put far more engineering and test time into those drum brakes than you'll find in any aftermarket kit.

[Wildkitty64]

Thanks...definitely gives me more to think about....  certainly just more of a cruise here and there driver and if the kits don't add any more dependability.    Just the thought of out on the interstate after 35 years make one consider the options.....lol

[Wildkitty64]

And thanks for reminding these cars aren't all that popular!!!   lol       Definitely sentimental reasons here for getting her back up and running.....

[Matt Harwood]

You think those little weenie 11-inch GM discs that come in those kits will stop that giant car as well as the massive aluminum drums that came on it from the factory? 

 

Watch out for trees, bro.

[joe_padavano]

11 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

You think those little weenie 11-inch GM discs that come in those kits will stop that giant car as well as the massive aluminum drums that came on it from the factory?

 

That's exactly the problem. Many aftermarket kits use commonly available rotors and calipers that are not matched to the size and weight of the car. They do this so you can use your existing wheels, which really defeats the purpose of converting to disc brakes. The factory disc brakes used on the 1967-up full size cars used 12" rotors and calipers with a piston that was just under 3" in diameter for plenty of clamping and braking force. These required unique wheels to clear. Late model aftermarket wheels easily clear these correctly-sized disc brakes, but your current ones will not.

 

As for "35 year old" parts, or even 60 year old parts, so what? If you replace all the wear items in the current brake system AND (this is the important part) adjust the brakes properly, it will stop just like new.

[Pfeil]

Buick finned drums were the brake of choice for hot rodders before disc brakes. Now the old school hot rodders are using Buick brakes again;

 

Buick drum brakes will bring that 4,500 lb. Buick down from 100 mph with no problem!

Edited August 11, 2020 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[m-mman]

What gets forgotten is that the only real advantage that discs really have over drums is their ability to dissipate heat.  The reason Buick made the finned aluminum drums. 😉

 

3-4 panic stops from 100 to 0 and drum brakes lose their effectiveness. Discs can take heat of the friction and release it to the environment quickly for repeated stops.  (or riding the brake pedal down a long hill instead of downshifting) Semi trucks and their trailers haul 80,000 pound loads up and down hills on drum brakes. You just have to know the limits of the equipment. 

 

Those people who make multiple high speed stops in a collector car (or ride the pedal down hill) probably should not be driving a collector car anyway. 

[GARY F]

I restored two 63 Pontiacs, A Bonne and GP. Rebuilt the complete brake system and hit the brakes, It will throw you into the windshield. No need for disc.

[Pfeil]

I remember the Motor trend and Car & Driver test on Pontiac's  eight lug steel wheel-Aluminum drum with steel liners. The Pontiacs were "repeatedly" hauled down from speeds of over 100MPH without brake fade.

 Early type

 

 

Later type;

Edited August 11, 2020 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

2 hours ago, m-mman said:

What gets forgotten is that the only real advantage that discs really have over drums is their ability to dissipate heat.  The reason Buick made the finned aluminum drums.

 

 

That's not the only advantage. When drums heat up, they expand and move AWAY from the brake shoes. That's what causes brake fade. Then rotors heat up, they expand and move TOWARDS the brake pads. On a lightly used collector car, you'll likely never get to that point, however.

 

Look, no one will argue that PROPERLY DESIGNED AND INSTALLED disc brakes will stop better than drums. My whole point is that most of the aftermarket disc brake kits I have seen are NOT properly designed for the application, and proper installation by the shadetree mechanic is usually even worse. This is why I say that properly maintained and adjusted factory drums are likely to be better for most people and most applications. Factory brake systems (drum or disc) are exposed to rigorous testing at the full range of operating conditions: lightly loaded, fully loaded, brand new brake parts, worn-to-the-limits brake parts, dry pavement, wet pavement, repeated panic stops, etc. I can guarantee that NO aftermarket system has been exposed to that rigorous a test regimen for every specific make and model car that a given kit claims to fit. People read magazines or watch videos and every old car is getting a disc brake "upgrade", so they figure it's required. News flash - most of these media outlets (including car magazines) are infomercials that are intended to promote their advertisers' products. Yes, with proper design and careful installation, one can install an upgraded brake system.  Most people asking this question lack the skills or experience to do that, and frankly, if they had the skills they wouldn't be asking the question.

Edited August 11, 2020 by joe_padavano (see edit history)

[Guest]

1 hour ago, joe_padavano said:

Look, no one will argue that PROPERLY DESIGNED AND INSTALLED disc brakes will stop better than drums. My whole point is that most of the aftermarket disc brake kits I have seen are NOT properly designed for the application, and proper installation by the shadetree mechanic is usually even worse. This is why I say that properly maintained and adjusted factory drums are likely to be better for most people and most applications. Factory brake systems (drum or disc) are exposed to rigorous testing at the full range of operating conditions: lightly loaded, fully loaded, brand new brake parts, worn-to-the-limits brake parts, dry pavement, wet pavement, repeated panic stops, etc. I can guarantee that NO aftermarket system has been exposed to that rigorous a test regimen for every specific make and model car that a given kit claims to fit. People read magazines or watch videos and every old car is getting a disc brake "upgrade", so they figure it's required. News flash - most of these media outlets (including car magazines) are infomercials that are intended to promote their advertisers' products. Yes, with proper design and careful installation, one can install an upgraded brake system.  Most people asking this question lack the skills or experience to do that, and frankly, if they had the skills they wouldn't be asking the question.

Well said.

[Pfeil]

1 hour ago, joe_padavano said:

 

That's not the only advantage. When drums heat up, they expand and move AWAY from the brake shoes. That's what causes brake fade. Then rotors heat up, they expand and move TOWARDS the brake pads. On a lightly used collector car, you'll likely never get to that point, however.

 

 

 

There are a number of things that are the cause of drum brake fade.

[Graham Man]

Great looking Buick.

 

I would stick with the stock brakes, parts are easy to find and it will stop like a new Buick when you are done.  

 

My friend just did his 1965 Buick Riviera, he loves the new brakes, drums all around.  He resurfaced the drums, new wheel cylinders, new brake lines, steel and rubber, new master cylinder, new shoes and hardware, it took him two weekends without help, all off the shelf components readily available.

 

PS I like the pre-bent steel brake lines...

PPS I use silicone disk brake grease to lube all the brake hardware contact points, help keep things loose after the car sits a few months, drum brakes like to be used.

[54vicky]

my 64 wildcat never failed to stop when needed even when loaded with 4 adults and towing a tent trailer including a 5ooo+  trip from ontario to bc including through the rockies not once did I have a feeling it would not stop