6219_Rules Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Please could someone tell me about the 1940 Graham? Was it a Cord? Who made it and what other information can you tell me about this car? Tnank you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Miller Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Graham bought the dies for the body from Cord after Cord stopped producing automobiles, so the body of the Hollywood is basically a Cord shell. There were several other differences, the body shell is really the only thing these cars have in common. Hup used this same body shell also if I am not mistaken. Neither of these "Cord derivatives" are recognised by our club as Full Classics, but I am going to let this thread run for a couple of days as there may be some of our chatters that know about the history of these cars. Eventually I will probably move it over ot AACA since you are likely to find more people who can answer your questions on that Froum. Shawn MillerModerator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6219_Rules Posted December 7, 2002 Author Share Posted December 7, 2002 Thank you, Shane. I saw a couple of pictures of the Hollywood and was curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constellation Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 lykeios,I'll tell you what little I know about Graham-Paige Motors final model. The Cord 810-812 body dies were bought at a liquidation sale of the Cord plant in 1938 by Graham-Paige. Graham-Paige also by 1940 was assembling the Huppmobile. What came out of it was the beautiful Graham Hollywood and the Huppmobile Skylark that came out for 1940. It was a last gasp attempt by the two automakers to get back into business that was wrecked by the Depression. Sales were not good, for people believed them to be on the way to becoming orphan marques. The public was right. There is even some doubt that healthy sales would have saved either Graham or Hupp. The remaining stock of 1940 Cars were rebadged and sold off as 1941's. That is why there is some confusion about the last year they were made.Graham-Paige Motors lived on though doing defense work and became the basis of Kaiser-Frazer after the War. Bob Bosworth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 I owned one for a short while a few years ago. Why I sold it, I'll never know. The engine was "tired" but it would still top out at around 90mph(supercharged). Some people refer to them as "b**tard Cords" but darned if I wouldn't rather have the Graham over the Cord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 '33 Dodge! Tell me about the engine in the car that you had. I took some pictures of the Graham and Hupp at Hershey this year, but didn't get a chance to check out the engine. Beautiful body design. Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 Grahams were fitted with Continental six cylinders with superchargers(optional). As I recall, there was nothing special about the engines. I remember ordering a oil pan gasket from the local parts house. The owner said that he could get anything I needed for it. It was the supercharger that gave it the extra umph. That car would fly! Too bad Graham couldn't get more than 1900 of them out the door before the end. The trouble with the car was that I couldn't go anywhere in the car without a crowd gathering. It would take the better part of an hour to get an ice cream cone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Miller Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 Hate to break it to you but the Cord was faster. they have v8's and many were supercharged. They could easily top 100. Nothing against the graham but I have often wondered why they did what they did to arguably one of the most beautiful designs of all time. I mean, why not keep the hideways? I will take the Cord any day! I sold mine this summer but miss it terribly and will definately get another one.Interestingly, I used to take my Cord to cruise ins here in the Indy area and it inevitably was the center of attention. One evening a guy hung around all night talking about his hollywood. he had bought a pretty good example, but then decided to hot rod it. Something else i will never understand. I just don't get it when it comes to hot rodding rare or significant cars.Also the Cord was front wheel drive while I beleive the Graham was rear wheel drive. Cords handle quite well. They are kinda finicky, particularly in the shifting department, but there is really nothing like driving a Cord. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> Shawn Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 I think you're all wrong. Hupmobile bought the dies from Cord. Hupp got the new car off the groundbut then couldn't afford to keep producing it, and shared the dies with Graham-Paige. The1940 car is a Hupmobile. There may have been some late 1940 Graham's, but only the Grahamwas produced in 1941. The Hupp car was a Hupmobile Skylark and the Graham was aGraham Hollywood. The 1940 Hupmobile Skylark was the only car that did not have sealedbeam headlights in 1940, unless there was another small manufacturer like Bantam who didnot. Hupmobile used the Continental Red Seal engine, but the Graham Supercharger used aGraham engine. There is very little difference in the two cars other than the nameplate on thegrill. As I recall the Hupmobile had a painted grill and the Graham had a plated grill. Some ofthis is from memory. A close friend owned some of each about 30 years ago. The War keptGraham-Paige Corp. alive and after the War they joined with Henry Kaiser to build the Kaiser-Frazer and Graham was no more. Soon the Graham part of Kaiser (Frazer) was no more also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Re:hideaway headlights. You will have to remember that it was Hupp that took the gamble on the Cord dies. Hupp was out of money. They couldn't afford gimmicky headlights. In fact Hupp had skipped a year or two of production before the Skylarks came out. They couldn't afford to build the bodies. That's why Graham entered the picture. Stationary headlights were cheaper plus provided a different look to the car.As to speed, I strongly suspect that a healthy Graham would have no trouble crossing 100mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Graham Clayton Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Nothing against the graham but I have often wondered why they did what they did to arguably one of the most beautiful designs of all time. I mean, why not keep the hideways? Shawn MillerShawn,The reason was purely economic - it was cheaper for Graham to have freestanding headlight pods on top of the fenders rather than replicating the expensive and complicated retractable system of the original Cord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 They had to redesign the front of the car and shorten it anyway to fit on the frame they were going to use. The prototype still exists. If you look underneath you can see where they took Cord fenders, shortened them, welded them together and smoothed them over with lead. The hood and grille similarly hand made, with multiple screw holes where different emblems and trim were tried then the holes filled. This from an article in an antique car magazine some years back, sorry don't remember which one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 They didn't have to shorten the wheelbase. The chassis from the firewall back is unibody and identical to Cord except for the tunnel. The stub frame is Graham but designed specifically for the Hollywood. I love Cords but find the Hollywood just as attractive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 They didn't have to shorten the wheelbase. The chassis from the firewall back is unibody and identical to Cord except for the tunnel. The stub frame is Graham but designed specifically for the Hollywood. I love Cords but find the Hollywood just as attractive.The prototype was made by cutting the frame of a used Hupmobile at the firewall and adapting it to bolt onto the Cord unibody in place of the stock subframe. The result was a wheelbase considerably shorter than the Cord. They then designed a new front with a different look from the Cord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 The Graham and Hupp were both rear wheel drive. I would guess at least 200 1940 and 1941 Graham cars have survived. I know two owners who drive them all over the US in original condition. With OD they will cruse all day at 70 mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 How do you fit the overdrive? It seems pretty tight under there. There is a project to have some high speed gears made: http://forums.aaca.org/f171/hollywood-high-speed-rear-end-gears-323484.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Doug Greer Restorations in Cobourg, Ontario is the person you want to talk to. He has restored several Graham cars to concourse level. He also restored #5 (assuming you have #1?)Link to #5PK Dunsire's 1940 Hollywood Convertible 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I'm friendly with the current owner of Ken Dunshire's Phaeton and will ask him about the overdrive. I was always under the impression that there isn't enough room. I know the Spirit of Motion cars could be equipped with it. The Conv coupe is serial #700000 with engine number 710004. The Phaeton is #700005 with engine number 710005. There is a gap of 4 cars which might mean 4 yet to be discovered convertibles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Ken had pictures of #4 before it was crushed (he recalled the number from the conversation with the owner). He also received the steering wheel from #4 from the owner. The convertible steering wheel is unique....so maybe 3 remaining cars? It still amazes me what we are still finding in old garages. I guess I will be hanging on to my old cars longer than I should also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hupp36 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Ken had pictures of #4 before it was crushed (he recalled the number from the conversation with the owner). He also received the steering wheel from #4 from the owner. The convertible steering wheel is unique....so maybe 3 remaining cars? It still amazes me what we are still finding in old garages. I guess I will be hanging on to my old cars longer than I should also. An article called Hupmoble in C & P April to August 1976 in 5 parts pretty much gives the history of Hupmobile.The Part 5 in August is the story of how the Hupp Skylark & Hollywood Graham were born. Norman DeVaux was the guy that went to Hupp with the dies from Cord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 The pictures that Ken had, (one of which is attached below) were taken in 1963 by Earl Parks in Harwich Massachusetts. The car was never crushed.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EverythingBantam Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 On 10/10/2012 at 11:53 AM, alsancle said: The pictures that Ken had, (one of which is attached below) were taken in 1963 by Earl Parks in Harwich Massachusetts. The car was never crushed. . Is this the same cabriolet as in your earlier post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted June 8, 2022 Share Posted June 8, 2022 1 hour ago, EverythingBantam said: Is this the same cabriolet as in your earlier post? Yes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Albright Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 I’d like to buy a 1940-41 Hupmobile 245 C I flathead 6 engine to display with my 1941 Hupmobile Skylark. Leads appreciated! George Albright Ocala Florida cell weekdays 352 843 1624. Email gnalbright@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EverythingBantam Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 On 6/8/2022 at 8:48 PM, George Albright said: I’d like to buy a 1940-41 Hupmobile 245 C I flathead 6 engine to display with my 1941 Hupmobile Skylark. Leads appreciated! George Albright Ocala Florida cell weekdays 352 843 1624. Email gnalbright@gmail.com How does the Hupmobile Skylark drive? I had read someplace that they handled very well, possibly better than the 36-37 Cords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Albright Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 It drives quite nice! I have radials on it. Helps a lot. The 245 CI straight 6 is quite peppy as well. I am very happy with it. Everything quite straight forward and easy to work on as well. Thanks for asking! George 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EverythingBantam Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 3 hours ago, George Albright said: It drives quite nice! I have radials on it. Helps a lot. The 245 CI straight 6 is quite peppy as well. I am very happy with it. Everything quite straight forward and easy to work on as well. Thanks for asking! George Thank you for your thoughts. There really isn't much out there on the Hupps and Grahams. Out of curiosity, do you know what the overall length of your Skylark is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Albright Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 Not off the top of my head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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