Professor Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 Here is an image of the parking light socket on the new headlight bucket harness compared to the original. The small cutout at the bottom of the socket that is missing on the new connector is designed to allow the spring loaded bulb keeper to push far enough down to allow the tabs on the bulb to rotate into the notch to hold them in place. Without the cutout, the tab runs into the side of the spring loaded bulb keeper and will not rotate further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) All I have is a MoToR manual for these years. Is that GAR-4608E-5 or GAR-4608F-5? I can find no listing for the GAR_4608F-5 but GAR-4608E-5 is listed for 1936 Dodge and GAR-4608A-5 is listed for Chrysler C8. The box on top of VW4X4's generator is a voltage regulator, and the generator it goes with should have 2 posts. The regulator is TC-4301-A, and is listed for all 1935-36 Chrysler, Dodge, Desoto, and 1935-36 Plymouth, Deluxe only. VW4X4's generator, GEP-4561-5C is not listed in my book at all. Edited January 30, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 Bloo, It is definitely an F, not an E. Check out this eBay listing for the same part number as mine: https://www.ebay.com/itm/194470913119 Joe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piaras Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Will any of these pages be of help? Pierre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piaras Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Continuing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piaras Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Final 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 Thanks @Piaras! I have the maintenance manual digitized and I searched for “Generator” and found some basic information, but I did not find these diagrams. I’ll open my PDF now take a look. By the way, if anyone wants a searchable PDF of an original 1936 Maintenance Manual that I cut apart and scanned, let me know. I checked and it does not appear that this book was copyrighted so I think it is fine for me to distribute. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piaras Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 This is the one I purchased last year. A reproduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 This is the one I cut apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 Found the copyright for the maintenance manual… according to my research, the copyright for a corporation is good for 120 years or 95 years from the date of publication, whichever is shorter. My copy of the maintenance manual was published in 1935 which means that the copyright expires in 2030…. Hmmmmm…. 8 years to go. I just shot an email to chrysler customer service to see if they care if I distribute this manual. Standby. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW4X4 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 3 hours ago, ... and Professor said: Bloo, It is definitely an F, not an E. Check out this eBay listing for the same part number as mine: https://www.ebay.com/itm/194470913119 Joe So, by the looks of the Epay generator here, what I have is not 100% correct with those exposed wires coming out of the side. Obviously, these were very limited production to a few years of Chrysler products. Not likely we will ever be able to confirm this, but what is more obvious is that several other generators were very similar, enough that easy wiring mods. keep them going. ERIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW4X4 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 13 hours ago, Bloo said: All I have is a MoToR manual for these years. Is that GAR-4608E-5 or GAR-4608F-5? I can find no listing for the GAR_4608F-5 but GAR-4608E-5 is listed for 1936 Dodge and GAR-4608A-5 is listed for Chrysler C8. The box on top of VW4X4's generator is a voltage regulator, and the generator it goes with should have 2 posts. The regulator is TC-4301-A, and is listed for all 1935-36 Chrysler, Dodge, Desoto, and 1935-36 Plymouth, Deluxe only. VW4X4's generator, GEP-4561-5C is not listed in my book at all. Here's a real interesting link.... https://www.thecj2apage.com/storage/47_autolite_service.pdf If I'm not reading this wrong, in 1947 the part number would have ended in "A" GAR-4608A-5...? ERIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 Just as you thought Bloo…. Hollowed out. I need to figure out which wire is the armature and which wire is the field and temporarily wire them to the the voltage regulator that was installed when I got the car. If anyone has an easy way to figure out which wire is armature and which wire is field on the generator, I would appreciate the guidance. Joe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Take the inspection band off and look for a connection going to a brush. That's the armature. Other wire is field. The field wire connects to the winding in the frame. With the new information that has been posted, the missing correct "cutout" that mounts on top of the generator is really a regulator and both wires did come out originally to connect to it. I would have expected binding posts, but maybe they did just come out like that? VW4X4's pics are the correct regulator, but a different generator series than yours. The ebay generator did not have good enough pics to see how the connection was made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 29 minutes ago, VW4X4 said: Here's a real interesting link.... https://www.thecj2apage.com/storage/47_autolite_service.pdf If I'm not reading this wrong, in 1947 the part number would have ended in "A" GAR-4608A-5...? ERIC That is what my book said as well, "A" for Chrysler C8, "E" for 1936 Dodge. They take the same regulator, so are electrically compatible. Maybe there's some mechanical difference? From your link, it looks like it might be the pulley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW4X4 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 6 minutes ago, Bloo said: Take the inspection band off and look for a connection going to a brush. That's the armature. Other wire is field. The field wire connects to the winding in the frame. With the new information that has been posted, the missing correct "cutout" that mounts on top of the generator is really a regulator and both wires did come out originally to connect to it. I would have expected binding posts, but maybe they did just come out like that? VW4X4's pics are the correct regulator, but a different generator series than yours. The ebay generator did not have good enough pics to see how the connection was made. If you look closely at the Ebay generator, you can not see any connection between the generator and the regulator. After reading the entire Autolite manual, in the very last few pages they show that 3 replacement generators can replace most of what they have produced thru 1947... I think the electrical connection are some of the biggest changes. ERIC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) I agree. The one in your picture from earlier is probably the replacement. Looking at ...and Professor's picture again, knowing what the original regulator looks like, it appears the wires would come out under the regulator. There may be nothing wrong there except the lack of a correct regulator. Edited January 30, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 Well… I hated to do it, but I ran temporary wires to the regulator that came with the car. None of the wires needed to be hacked, and the original wire that would normally go to the generator cutoff switch had plenty of length to reach the regulator. Once I get a correct cutoff switch, I will either decide to keep the non original regulator and hide it someplace not obvious, or, use the original cutoff switch. Here’s the way it looks with the regulator wired as it was when I got the car. Joe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 January 30 Update: After figuring out that the cutoff switch on my generator was hollowed out as @Bloo suggested it might be, I re-wired the generator to use the same voltage regulator that came with the car. After completing that step, I wired up the two Optima batteries in parallel and connected the ground cable via a 30A fuseable link. No spark and the fuseable link did not blow or get warm so I permanently connected the negative battery cable and started testing various systems. Horn: did not work. Parking lights: perfect, front and rear. Headlights: Only the left headlight works on low beam. No headlights at all on high beam. Starter: turns but I did not try to start. Ammeter: shows current draw as it should. Dash lamps: perfect. Radio lamp: perfect. Brake lights: Do not work. Power to switch but switch is not closing when I press the brake. Brake lights work when I bypass switch. The first, and easiest thing to fix was the horn relay wiring. It turns out that I had swapped the horn button and the power connection. I expected the horn button to control the center relay but it turns out that power goes to the center relay, horn button goes to the terminal closest to the radiator, and the horn connections go closest to the firewall. I wired it correctly and now the horns work properly. I tested the headlamps before I installed them and they both worked on high and low beam so I suspect the right headlamp has an issue at the socket that I will need to troubleshoot. Since I rebuilt both original headlamp sockets, I could have an issue there. With respect to why things do not work on the high beams (or it could be the low beams for all I know), I suspect there is something going on with the wiring to the dimmer switch or perhaps how I have it wired. The light that should come on on the dash when the high beams are on does not illuminate so I am guessing that I do not have power to the high beams. Since power to both the high and low beams come from the center feed on the dimmer switch, I will bypass the switch and see if the high beams work then. Regardless… I am happy with today’s progress. I attached an image of something I have not seen since I owned this car: working instrument and radio lights. Sometimes it’s the small things eh? 🙂. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 NICE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 Update to 30th update: I figured out at least part of the headlight issue: The headlights are not adequately grounded, and the left headlight is grounded better than the right headlight. I turned the high beams on and then grounded the trim ring on the right headlight and the high beam came on nice and bright. I have screws with wires attached going to the inside of the headlight bucket which were going to ground on the sealed beam headlight socket (which I removed) leaving the wire hanging. This however, will not solve the problem. The bolt that holds the headlight bucket to the radiator support structure is not adequately passing ground from the bucket to the frame (through the radiator support structure). I need to google search how people are running grounds when they are using the original wiring harness connectors. Well… one more problem down. LOL. Still don’t know why the low beams are not working on either headlight… but I’ll save that problem for after I fix the ground issue. Joe 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maok Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Well done Joe, solve each problem systematically one at a time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 Went out this morning just to stare at the dash lights for a minute… this cannot be normal. 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piaras Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Are the bulbs all the same? What color are the plastic lenses that the bulbs shine through? Mine are blue. Are the two instruments that different in color when outside in natural light? Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 Hi Pierre, The plastic lenses at the top of the instruments and speedometer are different colors. I need to purchase new plastic to replace them since both are original and in very bad shape. Your colored plastic is blue? Any chance you could take a picture of your right-hand instrument cluster in a night setting without a flash? I would love to see the color difference. As far as I could tell, my colored lenses look greenish, but they have faded and warped so badly over the years I have no earthly idea what the original color was. My OCD nature will not allow the different colored lights on my instruments for too long. 🙂. Joe 21 minutes ago, Piaras said: Are the bulbs all the same? What color are the plastic lenses that the bulbs shine through? Mine are blue. Are the two instruments that different in color when outside in natural light? Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ol swede Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Don't blame you for wanting to match up the colors but those gauges (lights) are really bright!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 Yes. I have not created the appropriate switch with an inline resistor to allow for "dim" lighting. Right now, the only choice I have is full bright. By the way, the lights actually look brighter than they are because I am using night mode on my apple phone, which keeps the exposure (in this case) on for three seconds. The reality is that the lights are much dimmer than they appear in the image. Creating the three position switch to allow for a dim setting is on my list (as it seems, are a thousand other tasks). 🙂. Joe 3 minutes ago, ol swede said: Don't blame you for wanting to match up the colors but those gauges (lights) are really bright!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) Typical in those days would have been to run the dash lights so dim you can barely see them, in the interest of getting the best performance out of your eyes at night. If there is no dimmer, I would expect "on" to be extremely dim. Did it have the 3 position switch you describe originally? Could the bulbs be wrong? The color difference is odd. I like the speedometer better. Edited January 31, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW4X4 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 27 minutes ago, ... and Professor said: Hi Pierre, The plastic lenses at the top of the instruments and speedometer are different colors. I need to purchase new plastic to replace them since both are original and in very bad shape. Your colored plastic is blue? Any chance you could take a picture of your right-hand instrument cluster in a night setting without a flash? I would love to see the color difference. As far as I could tell, my colored lenses look greenish, but they have faded and warped so badly over the years I have no earthly idea what the original color was. My OCD nature will not allow the different colored lights on my instruments for too long. 🙂. Joe Joe, The gods are defiantly with you... Just yesterday I was going throw a bunch of Chrysler parts and found this. IT's one of the lenses to the instruments..... Looks green to me.... Although being your speedo was changed, you may have a problem with the original paint not being the exact same color, or lots of fading, in one instrument, VS the other. ERIC PS I would never have the time and effort for this if it wasn't for the pandemic. I'm the one who started "the great resignation". So the pandemic isn't all bad... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piaras Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) Green Blue color. Took this natural light as soon as I got home from work so to not have color shift as one gets with a flash or other artificial lighting. Closer to Turquoise? Pierre Edited January 31, 2022 by Piaras Color description (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piaras Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Here is a shot of the other beat up cluster with the plastic being lit from the other side. It is not quite the same color to my eyes. A little fainter. Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 Thanks Eric, Pierre. This is exactly what I needed. I will see if I can recreate the plastic parts. If I can, I will make sure each of you get a couple. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 Hi Bloo, The instrument lights are full on and the bulbs are 6v 55 series which I show to be correct. I can wire in a resistor or even a rheostat to adjust the brightness, but I think the factory three position switch had a direct connect position which should be similar to what I have with the SPST switch. This said, I bet the issue is the camera exposure time which makes the lights appear brighter. I will try a normal exposure setting with flash off and upload it. I like the warmer appearance of the right hand side instrument cluster. It will be interesting to see how much the colored lens impacts the difference in the appearance. Joe 7 hours ago, Bloo said: Typical in those days would have been to run the dash lights so dim you can barely see them, in the interest of getting the best performance out of your eyes at night. If there is no dimmer, I would expect "on" to be extremely dim. Did it have the 3 position switch you describe originally? Could the bulbs be wrong? The color difference is odd. I like the speedometer better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piaras Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Joe Is there a photo department at work? Look for a gel filter in that color range. Can be purchased in plastic sheets. Might be easier to find, Lee Filters and others sell in assorted sizes. Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piaras Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Thank you for the offer of a couple strips. A video clip might show the truer brightness of the lights. I found there is not much difference between the two power positions in my case. Basically dim and dimmer is the way the wife calls it. Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ol swede Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 I understand your desire for correctness but there is nothing wrong in being able to see those gauges at a glance while driving in the dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KURTRUK Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 17 hours ago, ... and Professor said: Went out this morning just to stare at the dash lights for a minute… this cannot be normal. 🙂 I thought the color differences were obvious in your pictures posted Jan. 18th and 19th. The "new" gauge has a definite different appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KURTRUK Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 5 hours ago, Piaras said: Joe Is there a photo department at work? Look for a gel filter in that color range. Can be purchased in plastic sheets. Might be easier to find, Lee Filters and others sell in assorted sizes. Pierre Plastic soda bottles have been used for filters. Two layers of Mountain Dew green have stood in for original turn signal dash indicators. Check office supply stores for colored report covers and binders, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW4X4 Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 I'm sure a soda bottle will not stand up the the environment that a car is going to see. Even an antique car. The sun (even on the east cost) will make temperature way beyond what you might think. Have the car out at a show all day long and you will see surface temperatures way into the hundreds of degs. Besides that the light bulb itself is likely to melt soft food grade plastic. So, what ever is chosen for the lens, one has to do your best to find a very robust, strong and stable product, that can take extreme temperatures.... I'm actually surprised at the amount of plastic that was used in the Airstream. THis was one of those places. I'm guessing it was considered high tech back than... ERIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piaras Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 The heat is the reason I suggest using gel filter material. It is rated for higher temperatures found in movie/studio lights. Pierre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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