1936 Chrysler Airstream C-8 Convertible Restoration

[Professor]

Thanks everyone.  I ordered the lighting gel filter material and will experiment with the blue and green colors shown in the attached image of the item I ordered.  I am going to try to balance the color appearance of the speedometer and instrument cluster by using different filters.  The instruments look okay during daylight but the color difference between them really stand out at night under bulb lighting.

 

Thanks again all.  I really REALLY appreciate your support.  I would hate to be doing this restoration without this group.

 

Joe

 

27 minutes ago, Piaras said:

The heat is the reason I suggest using gel filter material. It is rated for higher temperatures found in movie/studio lights.

Pierre

 

[Professor]

1 February Update:

 

I permanently fixed the ground problem to the right front headlight by installing a ground wire (soldered lug) under the nut that holds on the headlight and another smaller lug to a screw that holds down the hood insulator that runs around the radiator support where the hood rests.  I took the left hand side headlight off to make a similar mod but ran out of time to do it since I started working on the Chrysler after work today.  With any luck, I will get the left headlight finished tomorrow after work and then start working on the low beam issue.  I suspect a short to the harness plug at the headlight which is grounding the low beam.  All the components work when tested separately so tomorrow when I ground the left headlight, I will check the plug for a short.  I checked the right headlight and there are no shorts at the plug so hopefully I find something on the left headlight.

 

No pictures tonight… the work was too boring.  🙂

 

Joe

[Professor]

2-2-2022 Question.

 

All, I found this heater switch on eBay and the knob matches some of the knobs on my dash and has the correct bullet style connectors that my heater has.  Any thoughts on the vintage of this heater switch?  I was using a modern SPST switch on my heater fan and I would prefer to use something that looks stock.  The switch says Ark-Less, Newton Mass, USA on it.  What little I can find suggests that it is period correct.

[Bloo]

I cant speak to authenticity for the C-8, however in those days heaters were largely not standard equipment. They were either installed at the dealer, or maybe at some aftermarket outfit like Sears or Firestone. Switches that hang under the dash like that were by far the most common type of switch, both on factory approved and on aftermarket heaters. Ark-Less was a common brand. It sure looks period correct to me.

 

Similar switches were available at NAPA as recently as the 90s, and maybe even now(?). Those last ones were red and cream in color and looked more like they hailed from the late 40s or 50s.

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Piaras]

Yes heaters were dealer/aftermarket.
Previous owner put in a Mopar Deluxe 36 heater from a 41 Powerwagon. The switch is lit and mounted on a bracket that is under the lip of the dash. Unfortunately no window defog! Could use THAT more than heat, especially in raging Tstorms.

Pierre

Edited February 3, 2022 by Piaras
Added model of heater (see edit history)

[Professor]

I bought the switch.  At $20-ish, it will work until I find something better.

[Bloo]

That switch looks great to me. @Piaras mentioned a lit switch. Quite a few of them were. Look at how fat the one you bought is at the threads. There's probably a bulb in there.

[Professor]

Here is a picture of the heater that was in my car when I obtained it.  I do not think it is of the appropriate vintage to match my car, but it was there so I kept it.

[Bloo]

It looks like you have a defrost connection. That's a win if you can figure out a way to use it. I don't think many cars had defrost yet in 1936.

 

One more thing about these old heaters, most have water flowing all the time. A positive shutoff valve for summer can be a good thing. It was usually a manual valve at one of the engine connections. Not all installations had one, but if I had a heater I would want one.

 

[Professor]

There is a shutoff valve installed in my head and I shut it off in the summer.  The heat would be intolerable if I had no way to turn off the water to the heater core.  The defroster blows air to the top of the dash and it actually clears the windshield even though the C8 was not designed for a defroster (or at least, it does not have defroster outlets built into the dash).  Nonetheless, the defroster setting is useful (albeit primitive).

 

Joe

 

4 hours ago, Bloo said:

It looks like you have a defrost connection. That's a win if you can figure out a way to use it. I don't think many cars had defrost yet in 1936.

 

One more thing about these old heaters, most have water flowing all the time. A positive shutoff valve for summer can be a good thing. It was usually a manual valve at one of the engine connections. Not all installations had one, but if I had a heater I would want one.

 

 

[Piaras]

That water shutoff valve is important! The heater will cook us in the summer, I replaced mine as it was stuck open. 
Pierre

[VW4X4]

Pierre, etal,

       While we are on the subject of heaters, a very good way to make a heater work much better is by adding pressure to the cooling system.  These cars did not have a pressurized cooling systems. The cooling system is vented to the atmosphere, by way of the overflow tube near the cap.  I was thinking just 3 lb's of pressure  would make a huge difference both in heat output and with engine temperature regulation. Pierre, you said your cooling system is pressurized? Can you show us how that was done?

 

      Several years ago, I had been driving my car, hard,  up a very big hill.   At the top, I immediately pulled into a parking spot and turned it off.  With in a few seconds, the overflow was pouring out coolant.  Well it turns out this is actually a known problem with unpressurized cooling systems.  Letting it run and cool down would have been the thing to do.  Without pressure the system can not dissipate the heat as well and gets much hotter.   This is why adding a pressurized cap would made a big improvement.

 

ERIC

[Piaras]

I have a 7# cap. The previous owner had the rad converted when a new modern core was put in. Other than washing out the bugs from the front of the rad, I have not touched it.

 

Watching the gauge, it is steady at 180-190 most of the time and climbs a bit when engine shut off. Some people use Evans coolant. No thermostat suggested and no rad cap. The fluid will run hotter as it has no water in it.

Pierre

[Professor]

In the winter here, with temperatures hovering around 25F, my unpressurized system cooks me.  It might be because the cab is so small on this car and the amount of air flow out of this heater high.  It gets hot enough that I need to turn it off once the cab is warm and just let the radiant heat from the heater core heat the cab.

 

The only thing that scares me about using a pressurized system is the force put on potentially marginal cooling and heating system components.  For example, I have replaced all of my cooling system hoses and I have an NOS heater, but is the heater core designed for pressure?  Have the years weakened the heater core in any way so that it might leak under pressure?  Is the water pump designed to handle pressure?  3PSI is pretty low so I suspect my concerns are unfounded, but with respect to how my car is performing right now; it it ain’t broke… I don’t want to fix it.  I have enough broke things to fix.  LOL.

 

Joe

[VW4X4]

4 hours ago, Piaras said:

I have a 7# cap. The previous owner had the rad converted when a new modern core was put in. Other than washing out the bugs from the front of the rad, I have not touched it.

 

Watching the gauge, it is steady at 180-190 most of the time and climbs a bit when engine shut off. Some people use Evans coolant. No thermostat suggested and no rad cap. The fluid will run hotter as it has no water in it.

Pierre

Pierre,

    Thanks for posting this other thread.  Unfortunately, the outcome was never posted. 

As for your cooling system, if it is truly pressurized, there had to be some modifications done to the filler neck of the rad.

Just changing the cap would still allow the system to vent.  I suspect the vent tube was removed and relocated to a more conventional position about the cap pressure seat.   Could you remove your rad. cap and take a picture showing any vents or over flow connections?

 

ERIC

[Piaras]

Might not get photo until Friday. The filler neck looks modern to me. The overflow/vent is above the sealing surface.

Pierre

[VW4X4]

3 hours ago, ... and Professor said:

In the winter here, with temperatures hovering around 25F, my unpressurized system cooks me.  It might be because the cab is so small on this car and the amount of air flow out of this heater high.  It gets hot enough that I need to turn it off once the cab is warm and just let the radiant heat from the heater core heat the cab.

 

The only thing that scares me about using a pressurized system is the force put on potentially marginal cooling and heating system components.  For example, I have replaced all of my cooling system hoses and I have an NOS heater, but is the heater core designed for pressure?  Have the years weakened the heater core in any way so that it might leak under pressure?  Is the water pump designed to handle pressure?  3PSI is pretty low so I suspect my concerns are unfounded, but with respect to how my car is performing right now; it it ain’t broke… I don’t want to fix it.  I have enough broke things to fix.  LOL.

 

Joe

Joe,

       Sometime I agree "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", but in this case you can't see heat or cooling.  ITs like electronics,  you can't see the electrons.  Heat, is what kills a lot of engines.  Along with  many other (now) known issues back then, I'm surprised these engine lasted as long as they did.   30,000 miles and your engine would have been shot back then.  Today, we can make a lot of easy improvements:

1 - modern motor oil

2 - PVC

3- cleaner fuel 

4- managing heat better

            Take a look at a modern cars today.  Some of the radiators are very small, or have very little front end air flow. Pressure  is how they get a way with it.  The pressure forces the heat to dissipate into the coolant before it can boil.  Any boiling of the coolant cause pockets of very hot areas and the metals start to break down. 

 

 

 

[John_Mereness]

There should be an accessory brochure for your year Chrysler - match a heater up to the one pictured in the brochure 

[Piaras]

Dodge not Chrysler

[Professor]

3 February Update:

 

Well… I am 3/4 of the way towards having working parking, high, and low beams.  On the left headlight, I found out that the low beam contact was shorting to the connector shell and then to the housing.  After fixing this problem, and grounds on the right and left  headlights, I now have two working high beams and one (left) working low beam.  The right hand side low beam has voltage to the connector on the correct pin and if I apply voltage to the pin on the bucket side, the low beam works… clearly, the issue is in the contact between the connector and socket.  I will remove the right headlight on Saturday and check the pins.  I lightly sanded the contacts when I rebuilt the connectors so I do not think the problem is corrosion.  I am guessing that there must be a contact gap on the low beam connection for some reason. 

 

Thanks to the link for the heater brochure @Piaras, I have been looking to no avail for one.

 

Joe

[Piaras]

a bit more information.

Pierre
 

 

https://groups.io/g/airflowcars/topic/88182240?p=Created%2C%2C%2C20%2C2%2C0%2C0%3A%3Arecentpostdate%2Fsticky%2C%2C%2C20%2C0%2C0%2C88182240%2Cprevid%3D1641493476954901451%2Cnextid%3D1639679112900919936

[John_Mereness]

If this one is proper then I would try to find it as Duo-Airstream heater is near unobtainium

[Professor]

Thanks John.  I will keep my eye out for a proper heater.

[Piaras]

23 hours ago, VW4X4 said:

Pierre,

    Thanks for posting this other thread.  Unfortunately, the outcome was never posted. 

As for your cooling system, if it is truly pressurized, there had to be some modifications done to the filler neck of the rad.

Just changing the cap would still allow the system to vent.  I suspect the vent tube was removed and relocated to a more conventional position about the cap pressure seat.   Could you remove your rad. cap and take a picture showing any vents or over flow connections?

 

ERIC

Eric

Here are a few photos of the filler neck and vent tube. The vent tube is above the seal surface so the cooling system is pressurized to a max of 7#, as the previous owner mentioned. Hope this helps.

Pierre

[Piaras]

Might change the rad cap as the rubbers appear a bit crushed, unless it is the cold weather that holds the rubber compressed.

Pierre

[VW4X4]

38 minutes ago, Piaras said:

Might change the rad cap as the rubbers appear a bit crushed, unless it is the cold weather that holds the rubber compressed.

Pierre

One thing for sure, the guy who did that knew what he was doing.  Looks like  they soldered on a completely different cap flange.   Thanks for the pictures...

ERIc

[Piaras]

Previous owner said he had spent over $900 on the rad. 
Pierre

[Professor]

Success.  Parking Lights, High Beams, and Low Beams all work.

 

Troubleshooting the low beams was difficult because it turns out that there were two problems, both a bit difficult to find.  On the left low beam, the soldered contact was touching the circular metal connector.  When I measured the voltage on the low beam pin with the headlamp disconnected, it was fine… as soon as I plugged it in, it did not work.  I found the problem after checking everything I could think of that would impact both low beams (because at the time, neither worked), only to discover that there was a voltage on the shell when the headlamp was disconnected.  Resoldered the connector on the left headlamp, insulated the wire… problem resolved.

 

With respect to the right headlamp, I knew the problem had to be in the interface… but alas, I was wrong.  I found that if I measured the center of the pin at the connector on the wire harness, the voltage was correct, so I thought.. oh… oxidization on the contact.  Scrape and sand, beautiful contact.  Touch the top surface of the pin… no voltage.  Touch the center of the top surface of the pin, the part where there is a tiny hole that my voltmeter tip could enter slightly… voltage.  WHAT????  It turns out that the wire to the original contact had apparently corroded around the crimp, and when I stuck the tip of the DVM (a needle tip) into the tiny hole of the contact pin, I measured voltage because… wait for it… it would touch the end of a piece of the original wire that just happened to be positioned just under the hole.  How crazy is that,.  I soldered the crimped portion of the original contact with a hot soldering iron and a ton of flux solder (the original wire in the contact was quite dirty)… problem resolved.

 

I put everything back together and here are the images.  The first image is the parking light, second is high beams, and third is low beams.  The lights are so bright that I cannot look into them from straight on.  The right lamp is a bit yellowed because the reflector has not been refinished, the left lamp has an NOS reflector in it and it is slightly brighter.

 

Damn I am glad to have this part done.  Now to wire up the heater and the electric pump, and the fog lights.  Fuel pump first, then heater, and then I will run new wires for the fog lights.

 

Joe

[VW4X4]

Joe,

    Out of desperation, I tried to polish the reflectors with polishing compound,( for the body of a car). It actually worked well....   Give it a try on that yellow looking reflector....

 

Here's a question for you.... When you turn on the regular head lights does the parking lamp stay on, or turn off?  

 

ERIC

Edited February 5, 2022 by VW4X4 (see edit history)

[Professor]

Eric,

 

The front parking lights go out.  I measured the voltage on each of the three pins going to both headlights and only one pin has voltage at a time on both headlights.  The right and left lights are ganged together so it makes sense that they act the same, and the headlight switch I have is OEM so I am absolutely confident that this is the way the lights should work.

 

What do yours do?

 

Joe

[ol swede]

Looking good. I believe your lights are working correctly as my park light also go out with the headlights on. Now to get them aimed while setting behind them. My reflectors were quite good but not perfect, I picked up a polishing cloth for fine silver (somewhere) had compound in it. Used a straight polishing motion not circular seemed to help.
Again looking good!!

Dale

 

[VW4X4]

29 minutes ago, ... and Professor said:

Eric,

 

The front parking lights go out.  I measured the voltage on each of the three pins going to both headlights and only one pin has voltage at a time on both headlights.  The right and left lights are ganged together so it makes sense that they act the same, and the headlight switch I have is OEM so I am absolutely confident that this is the way the lights should work.

 

What do yours do?

 

Joe

Joe, I relayed and  wiring seal beams into my lights 20+ years ago.  This means the parking lights were eliminated.   I can't recall if I ran the parking light wire and left it hang or not.  Now, I'm going back the the original light fixture, but some how going to be using 12 volt bulbs. I still having figured that out.  With 12volt bulbs, the wattage is likely going to increase meaning, more heat.  Knowing the parking lights turn off is a good thing.  As I understand it the original bulb is a 2331 and the 2336 is the 12 volt equivalent, but I haven't found clear info. to confirm this.  I'll be using my converted sealed beam lights on my 4 door car.  Lots of re-engineering, but this is well worth it...

 

ERIC

 

 

 

[Bloo]

Be very careful when polishing reflectors. The period method is lampblack and alcohol. Go in a straight motion center to outside. If it has enough tarnish that lampblack wont work try some wadding polish, same thing, straight lines inside to outside (no swirls). Use the least aggressive method you can. If neither of these work, you could try stronger polish, but there's not much silver there and if you go through the silver to the brass, its all over for good light output until you get them resilvered. Making brass shiny wont help much. Good luck with it.

[Professor]

05 February Update 1:

 

After working about 7.5 hours today on the Chrysler, everything is done and working with the exception of three items:

 

1.  Clock

2.  Radio

3.  Brake Lights

 

I am not concerned about the clock and radio yet, I will take each apart and fix them as I have the time.  I need to get the brake lights fixed immediately so this will be the next job I tackle.

 

I wired up the voltage regulator and adjusted it and it charges fine.  I repaired the old heater switch I purchased (easy to take apart and I cleaned the wiper (it is a rheostat) and all the contacts and it works perfectly.  It is nice to be able to control the heater motor speed, and the bulb that was in it actually worked so it is fully functional.  The new harness cured the issue with my fuel gauge, it now reads properly.  I wired in the electric fuel pump using the wire that I installed when I installed the fuel pump, but I will replace these wires with cloth wires as soon as I get more wire in from Rhode Island Wiring.

 

I took it for a test drive and it idles more smoothly now that it did before, perhaps replacing the 12V coil with a proper 6V coil helped.  

 

The dual optimas (see attached image) crank this thing over like nobody’s business.  I am so happy to get that lead-acid battery out from under my seat and use the optimas.  No more worries about acid fumes and I have significantly more CCA and reserve than I did with the 6V lead-acid.  As much as I like originality, the dual batteries are worth the lack of originality.  You cannot tell from the image, but the batteries sit well below the height of the battery well, and my battery cover sits a couple of inches higher than the battery well lip, so there is no chance of the battery shorting.

 

Once it gets dark, I am going on my first night drive with my wife.  I will upload some more pictures when I get back.

 

Joe

[VW4X4]

Joe,

   What holds those battery in place???  Is your car still positive ground?  Which ever polarity it is that is NOT grounded you have to insulation.  Those batteries have to be bolted down solid, no matter what, otherwise sooner of later they will be shorted out.   It looks like you could fit a metal bar right across the center.  Shorted batteries are just a huge disaster..... I would hate to see that.  I just put in a kill switch in my car.  Not sure how I'm going to fit the cover.  

[Bloo]

39 minutes ago, ... and Professor said:

The dual optimas (see attached image) crank this thing over like nobody’s business.  I am so happy to get that lead-acid battery out from under my seat and use the optimas.  No more worries about acid fumes and I have significantly more CCA and reserve than I did with the 6V lead-acid.  As much as I like originality, the dual batteries are worth the lack of originality.  You cannot tell from the image, but the batteries sit well below the height of the battery well, and my battery cover sits a couple of inches higher than the battery well lip, so there is no chance of the battery shorting.

 

I like that setup too. I'll probably do it at some point, but at the moment I have 2 good 6v conventional batteries laying around. It would be really nice to never open my floorboard again.....

 

One thing to keep in mind is that those batteries are much "bigger" electrically than the original. All that extra reserve is wonderful. If you ever have some bad day (broken charging system, extreme vapor lock, flooded, etc.) and you actually use a bunch of that extra capacity, it will probably get you home. However, be sure to put a charger on when you get home!

 

Don't expect the car to just take care of it like a more modern car might. It all boils down to amps and hours. If it takes 3 times as long to run it noticeably low as it did in 1936, it also takes 3 times as long to bring it back up with the charging system. These old tiny generator systems weren't particularly good at bringing up the original battery unless you drove for hours so it's probably good advice even with a stock battery.

 

EDIT: VW4X4 posted while I was typing. I agree you should tie them down. It looks like it would be easy to do from your picture.

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Professor]

The batteries are held down by a metal bar between the posts… if you look closely, you can see the two posts that the bar sits over and then wing nuts hold it in place.  Those batteries are not going anywhere. I will take a picture of the setup when I remove the seat next weekend.  I could not find an image of what held the factory battery in, but I imagine it was something that uses the same two studs I used.

 

Joe

[Professor]

A few night shots with “night mode” off on my iphone in an attempt to get a more accurate image.  One thing I can say for sure is that the right headlight with the NOS reflector is easily more than 10 times the light output of the left headlamp with brass showing through in most places.  This said, I can see fine at night on the deserted country roads around where I live (with no street lights).

 

Joe

 

 

[Professor]

Sorry for the sideways images… they are oriented correctly on my computer.  I never understand why this forum software rotates some images but not others.  I would correct it here on the forum if I knew how, but I don’t want to clock the images on my computer so that they display incorrectly when I look at them on my computer.  Anyone know how to tell the forum software to rotate an image?

 

Joe

[Piaras]

I came across this same problem before, and was told to hold the phone in the correct upright position. Slapped!
 

I suspect that most forum software reads the EXIF file to set orientation. Maybe try the same photos with and without the EXIF? 
Pierre