Emblem collection auction on eBay...WOW!!

[lump]

Were any other AACA forum members watching the radiator emblem collection which just now sold on eBay, one item at a time. WOW! 

 

I have a modest collection of old enamel radiator badges, and wanted to add some of the older, more uncommon emblems which were featured in the eBay listings from this "50-year Collection." I bid on lots of them, but didn't win even one. Not complaining...supply and demand dictate the prices. All I can say is I must have good taste in emblems...and similar taste to folks with deeper wallets than mine. LOL. 

 

One thing about it...if emblems are in that kind of demand now, then several of my own badges are worth a LOT more than I would have guessed. 

 

One emblem I bid was interested in was a LUXOR cab emblem. Here is a link to that completed auction. Whew! 

 

eBay auction for Luxor cab radiator badge

[TexRiv_63]

I was watching with you. It was a pretty remarkable group, all rare, all in great shape and many original. I bid on a few but didn't have a chance. I liked it because they all started at very low prices so I would imagine the final prices are pretty market accurate.

[1912Staver]

I bid what I thought was a very respectable bid on the Staver Chicago emblem. But I fell quite a bit short.  It would be nice to think it is going on a car rather than a shelf but somehow I doubt it. As far as I know only 2 of the 5 known survivors need a badge.

But there are many badge shelves that don't have one.

 

Greg in Canada

[lump]

I noticed that many, or perhaps even most were restored. Nicely done, however. The beautiful plating on the backside is a giveaway. 

 

For those of you who didn't see this collection in action on eBay, you can click on that link in my original post. When you get to that auction, then go up to the category at the top of the page. When you get there, click on "Completed Auctions" in the left column. LOTS of amazing emblems and ornaments in that collection.  

[TheMoneyPit]

Actually, I think the seller would have sold several items at much higher prices if he staggered the end by 3-5 minutes between each. I bid heavy on three, all of which were over $1000 and didn’t win any. If it had been staggered I would have tossed more at each until I ran out of my slush money. At those prices, I’m very glad I found what I did years ago!

 

It was a super collection with only a few I would not have trusted to bid on, I hoped that Staver would get that one.

[8E45E]

9 hours ago, lump said:

I noticed that many, or perhaps even most were restored. Nicely done, however. The beautiful plating on the backside is a giveaway. 

I often find the backside of most chrome trim, badges, etc., is almost always 'beautiful' compared to the exposed front as its not exposed to the elements, or being scratched or chipped.

 

Craig

[1912Staver]

Many thanks on the heads up on the Staver emblem " Money Pit ". There was a time when I did a Ebay search weekly for " Staver " but these days I am probably down to every two weeks. At one time, every couple of months something of interest would come up on the Bay.

But the last couple of years pickings have really tapered off.

 Example .. for a number of years about once a year or so there would be a sales brochure , parts book, Company issued advertising poster or leaflet  { as opposed to something removed from the pages of a periodical } listed on ebay. It's been a good 4 or 5 years since that happened.

It begs the question why ? I doubt all that many people apart from the handful of actual car owners are interested . 

There is a definite chance that without your timely message I could have missed it altogether. At least I now know what the market will bear, even if I can't afford it.

   

All this state of the market information provokes a question .

How many were bidding on items in this auction that they don't have a corresponding vehicle for ? Even if the emblem or mascot would be a spare ? In other words the item would be treated as a collectable in itself.

And how many were looking to buy something that is a part for a vehicle or project they actually own ?

I am just curious about how big a segment of the hobby the separate collection of emblem's , mascot's , hubcap's , Etc. is compared to the vehicles themselves.

 

Greg in Canada

 

How 

 

Edited February 28, 2020 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[8E45E]

1 hour ago, 1912Staver said:

All this state of the market information provokes a question .

How many were bidding on items in this auction that they don't have a corresponding vehicle for ? Even if the emblem or mascot would be a spare ? In other words the item would be treated as a collectable in itself.

And how many were looking to buy something that is a part for a vehicle or project they actually own ?

I am just curious about how big a segment of the hobby the separate collection of emblem's , mascot's , hubcap's , Etc. is compared to the vehicles themselves.

 

Greg in Canada

I do buy items for spare parts for some things on my vehicle if they are difficult to find.  As for items that don't fit any of my Studebakers, I'll buy it at a swap meet, etc., if its a good deal.  I won't hoard it, if that is what you are asking, but I keep for trading material as there are those who want to have their cake and eat it too.  Those types seem to be more than willing to accept an equally nice item in trade for something you can use, where they won't accept cash money.

 

Craig

[TexRiv_63]

1 hour ago, 1912Staver said:

   

All this state of the market information provokes a question .

How many were bidding on items in this auction that they don't have a corresponding vehicle for ? Even if the emblem or mascot would be a spare ? In other words the item would be treated as a collectable in itself.

And how many were looking to buy something that is a part for a vehicle or project they actually own ?

I am just curious about how big a segment of the hobby the separate collection of emblem's , mascot's , hubcap's , Etc. is compared to the vehicles themselves.

 

Only a guess but I would say the vast majority of bidders were not buying for a car project, especially very rare ones as seen in this batch. There are a lot of car hobbyists that collect automobilia including emblems but there are also a lot that are buying for investment or resale. When I started my personal collection over 20 years ago I made it a rule to never have more than one example of each emblem and sold or traded the extras, working toward the best example of each saved. When I started my retirement business I bought in bulk for resale and have helped a number of car owners find what they needed. 

[1912Staver]

44 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

I do buy items for spare parts for some things on my vehicle if they are difficult to find.  As for items that don't fit any of my Studebakers, I'll buy it at a swap meet, etc., if its a good deal.  I won't hoard it, if that is what you are asking, but I keep for trading material as there are those who want to have their cake and eat it too.  Those types seem to be more than willing to accept an equally nice item in trade for something you can use, where they won't accept cash money.

 

Craig

 

 

I am not really thinking of hoarding or even speculatively buying at all. Just curious about the ratio of automobilia collectors to car collectors.

I am probably too practical a person. I could barely believe I was actually typing in a $500.00 bid for a so - so condition emblem that I in fact need for a car.  But at least 2 people bid higher than that according to the bid history. People that in all likelihood did not own a Staver - Chicago automobile.

My hobby has always been a shoestring affair , and certainly virtually no spending on automobilia. I have a few moto - meters , 20's hub caps , and yes 2 or 3 radiator emblems but they all are $5.00 or $10.00 items . To me it seems as crazy to spend $1000.00 or more on a radiator emblem from a car that will never be owned as to spend several thousand $ on a particularly desirable vintage gas pump.

Or for that matter any gas pump beyond say a couple hundred dollars if you don't own a gas station.

But sometimes I lose sight of the fact that many people in the general public would see any old car ownership and expense as just as crazy.

Greg

[8E45E]

2 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

To me it seems as crazy to spend $1000.00 or more on a radiator emblem from a car that will never be owned as to spend several thousand $ on a particularly desirable vintage gas pump.

Or for that matter any gas pump beyond say a couple hundred dollars if you don't own a gas station.

Even if one owned a gas station, a vintage gas pump would NEVER meet todays stringent codes; either for safety, or Weights & Measures certification.

 

Craig

[lump]

The fact is that we all enjoy this hobby and its related paraphernalia in whichever fashion makes us (each different one of us) happy. In over 60 years of participation in the vintage vehicle hobby, I have seen hundreds of variations in the style of participation that makes someone happy. And I have also seen many collectors shake their heads in confusion...or even disgust, at the particular style of other people. 

 

There is the guy who makes it clear that he sees no interest in any car beyond the brass era (I first heard that perspective expressed in about 1961 or so). Then there is the other guy who loves only unrestored "survivor" vehicles, and dislikes shiny new-looking cars. Others turn their noses up at cars which are transported around on trailers, and brought out only for static display...while their counterparts are astounded that some people allow their vintage vehicles to have road chips on the undersides of the fenders, rust on the exhaust system, and (gasp), rocks in the treads of their tires! Some guys don't like "common" cars, like Chevy's and Fords, while others turn their noses up at muscle car era vehicles, like Mustangs, Camaros, Roadrunners, etc. 

 

Similarly, some people collect emblems (LOTS of people, judging by recent prices on eBay). Other people have no interest in collections of automobilia; wanting only to get the parts needed to restore an actual car. Neither of them is "wrong." And the price of emblems, or any other parts, are truly established by supply and demand. 

 

Yet I do agree, it's a shame if a restorer needs only one item and cannot find it, while that very item lingers in a picture frame on someone else's wall. What would I do if that rare and wonderful emblem was in MY collection (and was my favorite part of that collection). Would I give it up? Whew...probably so. But it wouldn't be easy. And based on donations and/or sales of such items for various reasons in the past, it would probably bother me for quite a while. 

 

[1912Staver]

Points all well taken.  

I definitely have my preferences , likes , dislikes.  To a large part they are influenced by my budget. It doesn't mean I positively don't like 100 point restored cars, I just tend to like "user " grade cars more.

No point having a very strong attraction to something that is well beyond ones means. 

 And in similar  fashion I really can't see the point of a garage with a line up of 15 or 20, sequential year, low mile Corvettes . But that sort of thing seems to appeal to more than a few " car guys ".

And you are quite correct, none of us are wrong, even the Zimmer , Tiffany  and Yugo guys.

 

Greg

[TheMoneyPit]

I believe there’s more competition for the emblems and mascots than anytime in the past years. Even 10 years ago there were half as much interest. It’s one way to have the multi car collection with limited money and space.

[TexRiv_63]

18 hours ago, TheMoneyPit said:

I believe there’s more competition for the emblems and mascots than anytime in the past years. Even 10 years ago there were half as much interest. It’s one way to have the multi car collection with limited money and space.

I fully agree. An interesting offshoot is that threaded hubcaps, my other interest, have decreased sharply in popularity. The truly rare ones still do well but the more common ones do not.

[Terry Bond]

A few observations about these kinds of collectibles that I've noted. I note most of the emblems in that collection were truck.  I know there is a special market for truck stuff, and IMHO the scarcity of those kinds of emblems probably had an impact on prices. 

For any collectibles of this type, there will always be a few high-end collectors who will usually duke-it-out among themselves to acquire rare items.  But, at the next step down the ladder, there is a drastic price difference.  As a result, more common items go for much less.  There seems to be room at that end for beginning collectors or even just what I call "shoe-box" collectors.   So many antique auto enthusiasts I know have a drawer, cigar box, or shoe box with a few emblems in them.  They are generally only opportunistic collectors, making acquisitions when something drops into their lap.  Condition may not be so important at that level of collecting.   Throw into the mix a few people with more money than smarts and we see re-pops going for stupid prices.  That type of collector is often the type that has to have everything, or doesn't want anyone else to get it.  One-upsmanship I think it's sometimes called.  Whether it's mascots, hubcaps, license plates, or even spark plugs, it often seems like old collections are now being broken up.  The word I'm hearing more often these days is "downsizing."  We'll probably see more old collections hit the market and it'll be interesting to follow the results.

Terry

[1912Staver]

Interesting you mention Trucks. One badge I noticed was for a Day Elder truck. A reasonably uncommon make these days. I have seen a few over the years  but I used to go to the odd ATHS show. Any that I have seen have the name cast into the radiator top tank, a very common practice 

on many early trucks. But at least one model must have used a  badge. Possibly near the end of Day Elder production. It went for over $700.00. 

Considering most early trucks sell for relatively modest sums it is a bit of a peculiarity a rad badge from one can be worth so much.

It's been pointed out a number of times in  the forum that rare often does not equal valuable , but clearly radiator badges are exempt from that observation.

 

 

Greg in Canada

Edited March 2, 2020 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[lump]

It is only demand vs supply which establishes the value. And as "MoneyPit" pointed out earlier, there does seem to be a much stronger demand for radiator badges now than in any time in my personal experience. 

 

Truly, I think that eBay has contributed greatly to this. Suddenly, anyone can find those very-uncommon badges which will fit into their collections, without having to get off the couch. 

[Terry Bond]

11 hours ago, lump said:

It is only demand vs supply which establishes the value. And as "MoneyPit" pointed out earlier, there does seem to be a much stronger demand for radiator badges now than in any time in my personal experience. 

 

Truly, I think that eBay has contributed greatly to this. Suddenly, anyone can find those very-uncommon badges which will fit into their collections, without having to get off the couch. 

Yes, evil-bay has changed the landscape.  Not it's a worldwide audience and you don't even have to get off yur butt to find stuff.  I'll always treasure the good-old days, on our knees in the swap meets, scratching through boxes and buckets of stuff to find good old spark plugs, emblems, etc.  After prices began to rise, those things began moving up into display cases.  It's just too bad you can't find out who the competition is now that all you see for bidder Id is x******xx instead of a name. 

Terry

[TheMoneyPit]

And here’s probably the best proof that there is stiff competition for the unusual...

 

And if you can’t see spending $1000 for a single emblem, what say you about this ?

[Walt G]

It can't be an "investment" value since trying to resell would be difficult?? Perhaps there are a lot of people thinking - at my age (you only go around once ) I may as well have something that I  worked your whole life for , something that is beautiful and not many people have or have even seen. , Life is short - Be happy now as a month from now you may not have the chance -  Just a thought perhaps, and that there is so much common stuff out there that perhaps sitting in a chair ( rocking chair?) holding and looking at that emblem just makes you feel good .

I am not justifying the $ these are bringing just passing on a thought as to why they are going for so much $ . Time is catching up to many of us and eventually will catch up to all of us.

[1912Staver]

Once again it's just my practical point of view speaking that anyone with this sort of financial clout would be better off care taking a few Brass Era cars rather than a display case full of uber rare and expensive emblems.

But again I do recognise that individuals exist in this hobby that have pockets deeper than I can imagine.

I doubt this price is a result of two emblemless Matheson car owners duking it out.

I just hope there isn't a Matheson basket case out there that could have put this emblem to good use .

 

Greg in Canada

[TexRiv_63]

4 hours ago, TheMoneyPit said:

And here’s probably the best proof that there is stiff competition for the unusual...

 

And if you can’t see spending $1000 for a single emblem, what say you about this ?

While I would have loved being the seller for this, I think it is crazy money. There are of course a lot of people out there today with crazy money.

[Terry Bond]

That particular emblem is exceptionally rare.  I discussed it a few years ago with one of the largest emblem collectors in the world.  He has personally visited many other collectors and collections and I don't know how many (if any) he was aware of that existed.  I would guess it's one of the "holy grail" emblems among collectors. 

 

Whether it's emblems, spark plugs, license plates, mascots, or ??? there are always going to be a few that will bring what seems like "silly money" to those of us who don't know that particular area of collecting well.  As I mentioned before, there are also a few additional factors that often come into play in addition to scarcity of the object. 

Terry