Classic Car Club of America approved vehicle list - complete

[zepher]

3 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

 

 

 

……….your Car Club and judging standards may vary.

 

I agree.

I also think there should be various categories for judging.

A car that is a true trailer queen should never compete with one that has just completed a 150 mile tour and is driven often.

 

Other than local car shows, my cars have never been judged.

I did enter my Pierce to be judged at the last PAS meet we attended but the car ran into distributor problems part way through the tour and had to be towed back to the meet.

It ran well enough to get on the show field on its own but we towed it back home where a complete rebuild of the points and condensers and new coils solved the issues.

But, because it never completed the tour it was not eligible to be judged in the Most Original category.  Our Pierce has plenty of 'patina' (there's that word again, Ha!) and would never be mistaken for a fresh restoration.  She has the nicks and dings from 91years of life as a car that gets driven.

 

Owning a trailer queen has never appealed to me as I like driving my cars too much.

But I can see where that would appeal to some owners.

Just like with a new car, that first paint chip after a years long restoration has got to be heartbreaking.

Then again, trailer queens will never have the neighborhood kids pile into them for rides around the block with lots of oohs and ahhs along the way.

On the other hand, trailer queens is what one would expect in a museum where the most pristine example is expected.

 

All in all, it's a good thing there is enough room in this hobby for all sorts of people and all sorts of ideas on how cars should be preserved.

Anything less would get boring in a hurry.

 

[1937hd45]

3 hours ago, zepher said:

 

 

On the other hand, trailer queens is what one would expect in a museum where the most pristine example is expected.

 

 

 

  

 

I think a Museum and a Car Collection are two different things. The Collection belongs to someone with a passion for the vehicles in it. A Museum is open to the general public that for the most part are fairly clueless to things automotive, a great place to donate or dump a vehicle you can't sell on the open market for the tax write off. Bob 

[Buffalowed Bill]

In rereading the thread I was overcome with the need to make one more point before someone is want to put a gag in my mouth, or break my fingers so I can't type.

 

For those of us in the hobby who have chosen to drive, restore, and show one, or more, of the independent marques, credibility is a constant challenge. Outside of our small single marque group, the amount of disinformation and misinformation is palpable. We owners don't have to go looking for it, it inevitably finds us. Even within our own community there is often a disconnect between owners who prefer cars from a different era. The weight of the chip on one's shoulder can sometimes lead an owner to become confrontational. I determined years ago that the best way to confront ignorance was knowledge. Being comfortable with the car that we drive or show has its own reward, but being able to present an example that simply no one can ignore is exhilarating. It also provides the an attention getter necessary, to have people start to ask questions.  

 

More then thirty years ago while restoring my 1931 Studebaker it became clear I had the opportunity to maybe achieve both of those goals. But in order to reach out a grab the brass ring. we were going to have to produce a car that would be hard to ignore. We needed to try to make all the right choices, in order to have the car accepted in the same company of some of the best, most beautiful cars in the world. We knew that the car deserved to be there, but we couldn't make any mistakes or it would be an opportunity lost. 

 

With the President we were fortunate to have a car, the sale of which, management was willing to support by bending over backwards to satisfy the customer. This provides a certain amount of license for today's owner. I have heard this production process referred to as a semi-custom. Everything from use of choice of paint color, to extra chrome was on the table, but we had to keep within Studebaker's known production parameters. Is it over restoration if a contemporary customer requested a high quality paint job in a color, not usually offered by Studebaker? A request for which management was willing to comply, at additional cost. You be the judge.

 

To highlight just how fine a line there is between actual production process and over restoration. It's been well documented that Studebaker use lower body color on the undercarriage. However, on the production line there were certain real world considerations. Initially frame and suspension components were all painted black. There was no matching of chassis to painted body, until the body was dropped on the frame. At the time of the drop the running boards were already attached. A cup of lower body paint followed the body down the line. At this point a painter, shot all the exposed portions of the chassis to match the fender color, but the inner part of the frame and the area, under the running boards, were not accessible, so to varying degrees they remained black.  

 

Seventy years later that creates a dilemma. Three choices have to be considered.

1) Replicate the production process, leaving part of the undercarriage black. Enough said?

2) Leave the frame black, few would know or care, but it wouldn't be right.

3) Paint the entire undercarriage lower body color- also not theoretically correct but.....

What would be your choice? 

know your audience, and try to get it right.

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

[edinmass]

We never debate doing a process exactly like the factory did it.............we have painted a chassis with red oxide primer, then sprayed it black, as it was delivered to thr coach builder, then painted over the black to match the work order as it was delivered........we even left overspray on it...........it was the way we found it........

[Steve Moskowitz]

Bill, as far as AACA judging goes and the lack of an operational check it comes down to numbers.  Take for instance Hershey last year, almost 1300 cars to judge and get the information in to input to computers, and get ready for awards banquet.  That's sort of simplifying a much longer process but basically that is it.  As it is, our judging program is usually not finalized until mid to late afternoon.

 

Most CCCA judged shows I have seen involve  under 100 cars although I have not seen that many.  I like their judging system and respect it.  I also have judged for other marques and for concours.  They all have their own unique system and if the members or exhibitors of those shows are satisfied then so be it. 

 

In AACA we have classes for restored cars, "original" cars and "drivers".   Subsets of these groups range from  certified race cars to motorcycles.  Every make and model ever produced that is at least 25 years or older.  That makes for a very difficult judging program without making it a several day adventure.  For us, that would be torture.  

[1937hd45]

26 minutes ago, edinmass said:

We never debate doing a process exactly like the factory did it.............we have painted a chassis with red oxide primer, then sprayed it black, as it was delivered to thr coach builder, then painted over the black to match the work order as it was delivered........we even left overspray on it...........it was the way we found it........

 

I trust the metalwork on the chassis was "As New" when the primer was applied. I remember the first year we went to a Pebble Beach auction, and a Packard Boat Tail was on a raised platform, very easy to see the deep pits on the frame. The right cowl was covered with awards. Maybe it was a 20 year old restoration and that was OK back then, I would think things are different today. Bob 

[Jr 13]

On 3/26/2020 at 11:18 AM, Matt Harwood said:

 

The PAS is so awesome that I've decided that I should own a Pierce just so I can hang out with them more often.

You don't need a Pierce to hang out with us.  I was a member for several years before I owned my first.  People have always willing to open up seats for others to ride and/or drive their vehicles at our annual meets or just sending a message via our website when in a different part of the country.   I'll gladly get my 29 out of the garage next time you're in the Tampa area.

[edinmass]

The Pierce club is a very friendly bunch......when you attend your first meet, you get a special name tag so everyone knows your a first timer........and thus they all keep an eye on you to be sure you’re having a good time. Every day, each tour starts at 9am, and every car gets all the seats filled with passengers. If you don’t bring a car, it’s fine. You will get many rides during the week. Many of the regulars toss their keys in a hat and pull out a random set, and then drive that car for the day...........hows that for proving what a special bunch of car people they are. I have attended 28 annual PAS meets.

[Grimy]

15 minutes ago, edinmass said:

The Pierce club is a very friendly bunch......when you attend your first meet, you get a special name tag so everyone knows your a first timer........and thus they all keep an eye on you to be sure you’re having a good time. Every day, each tour starts at 9am, and every car gets all the seats filled with passengers. If you don’t bring a car, it’s fine. You will get many rides during the week. Many of the regulars toss their keys in a hat and pull out a random set, and then drive that car for the day...........hows that for proving what a special bunch of car people they are. I have attended 28 annual PAS meets.

Absolutely!  The PAS encourages those who brought cars to fill up available seats with those who didn't--whether traveling from a distance or because their car is under restoration.  I have long said that some of my best friends in PAS are those I met by riding in their cars or they in mine.  Each meet is like a homecoming, meeting distant "cousins" again and telling stories about those no longer with us.  I'm behind Ed in meets attended--only 24 vs. his 28.

[zepher]

3 hours ago, edinmass said:

The Pierce club is a very friendly bunch......when you attend your first meet, you get a special name tag so everyone knows your a first timer........and thus they all keep an eye on you to be sure you’re having a good time. Every day, each tour starts at 9am, and every car gets all the seats filled with passengers. If you don’t bring a car, it’s fine. You will get many rides during the week. Many of the regulars toss their keys in a hat and pull out a random set, and then drive that car for the day...........hows that for proving what a special bunch of car people they are. I have attended 28 annual PAS meets.

 

Absolutely! Uh, Ditto!

When we attended our first PAS meet in 2006 we were welcomed with more than open arms and we had quite a few passengers with us on the various tours.

It was the single best meet experience we have ever had.

That one PAS meet had me regretting that we had not joined the PAS sooner being as the car has been in the family since the early 60's.

I hope everyone that rode in our Pierce for that meet enjoyed themselves and enjoyed our Pierce.

We certainly had a great time setting the pace for a production Silver Arrow up the grades into the Cascades.

 

Join the PAS even if you don't have a Pierce.

Attend a meet, get to know a few people and ride in a different Pierce every day.

I guarantee it will be one of the best old car experiences you will ever have.

Edited April 5, 2020 by zepher (see edit history)

[Grimy]

We'll let everyone in on that inside joke, Zepher, that was MY production Silver Arrow, which I'd had for just six weeks at the time.  (Most of that 6 weeks was spent on my back working on suspension issues.)  And after Zepher set the pace for me, I pulled my spark plugs and found that some twit had set them at .015 rather than .025, so it ran MUCH better the 2nd and 3rd tour days.

 

The 2021 (next year's) meet will be in Buellton, CA (home of Split Pea Andersen) in the latter part of June.  I'll get you the exact dates.  Be there or be square!

[Grimy]

And we DRIVE 'em--photo is of my 1918 48 dual valve touring car climbing Kingsbury Grade (7,200 ft) out of Minden NV to Lake Tahoe amid snow flurries.  And no, the side curtains stayed under the rear seats.

[zepher]

1 hour ago, Grimy said:

We'll let everyone in on that inside joke, Zepher, that was MY production Silver Arrow, which I'd had for just six weeks at the time.  (Most of that 6 weeks was spent on my back working on suspension issues.)  And after Zepher set the pace for me, I pulled my spark plugs and found that some twit had set them at .015 rather than .025, so it ran MUCH better the 2nd and 3rd tour days.

 

I'd say we did pretty good motoring up into the mountains with a completely original drive train.

I was amazed we weren't in your way climbing those grades.  I didn't think a 77 year old 8 cylinder would be able to hold a candle to your V12.

When we stopped for that construction closure your car definitely looked better than ours did waiting in line for the road to open.  She's a beauty.

I've still never driven a V12 Pierce.

It's on my bucket list, though!

[edinmass]

6 hours ago, Grimy said:

 

 

The 2021 (next year's) meet will be in Buellton, CA (home of Split Pea Andersen) in the latter part of June.  I'll get you the exact dates.  Be there or be square!

For 20 years my father and a I had a running joke with my mother........no, were not going to California for a car show, were going to get a bowl of Anderson’s Pea Soup! Never knew where or why we came up with this......it must have been all the signs.

[8E45E]

16 hours ago, Buffalowed Bill said:

With the President we were fortunate to have a car, the sale of which, management was willing to support by bending over backwards to satisfy the customer. This provides a certain amount of license for today's owner. I have heard this production process referred to as a semi-custom. Everything from use of choice of paint color, to extra chrome was on the table, but we had to keep within Studebaker's known production parameters. Is it over restoration if a contemporary customer requested a high quality paint job in a color, not usually offered by Studebaker? A request for which management was willing to comply, at additional cost. You be the judge.

 

To highlight just how fine a line there is between actual production process and over restoration. It's been well documented that Studebaker use lower body color on the undercarriage. However, on the production line there were certain real world considerations. Initially frame and suspension components were all painted black. There was no matching of chassis to painted body, until the body was dropped on the frame. At the time of the drop the running boards were already attached. A cup of lower body paint followed the body down the line. At this point a painter, shot all the exposed portions of the chassis to match the fender color, but the inner part of the frame and the area, under the running boards, were not accessible, so to varying degrees they remained black.  

 

Seventy years later that creates a dilemma. Three choices have to be considered.

1) Replicate the production process, leaving part of the undercarriage black. Enough said?

2) Leave the frame black, few would know or care, but it wouldn't be right.

3) Paint the entire undercarriage lower body color- also not theoretically correct but.....

What would be your choice? 

know your audience, and try to get it right.

Somewhat ironically, you being the owner of a 1931 President must be aware of the 'exception' to the 'black painted frame rule'.

 

Not to be overlooked are the limited production 'Speedway' editions of the President Four Seasons Roadster' with their RED painted frame & chassis components besides the underbody.  The only two top colors available were black or gray.

 

Craig

Edited April 5, 2020 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[Grimy]

8 hours ago, zepher said:

I'd say we did pretty good motoring up into the mountains with a completely original drive train.

I was amazed we weren't in your way climbing those grades.  I didn't think a 77 year old 8 cylinder would be able to hold a candle to your V12.

When we stopped for that construction closure your car definitely looked better than ours did waiting in line for the road to open.  She's a beauty.

I've still never driven a V12 Pierce.

It's on my bucket list, though!

My production Silver Arrow is an 8, not a V-12; I have three 8s but no 12s--and a 525 cid dual valve 6, the 1918, which is a veritable rocket ship for its day.  You're welcome to drive any of mine anytime.  We'll get you behind the wheel of somebody's 12 next year in Buellton.