Brooklyn Beer Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 For the past week I have been working on the shocks and shock links on my recently acquired 31 Franklin. Today it was warm enough to get out in the garage where the Franklin is sitting on the lift and remove the passenger side shock so I could change the oil and see about tuning it. Since the car arrived it has had a "lean" to the passenger side so was hoping that maybe it could be in the shock link itself. Remember i am new to the car. Well upon removing the shock I saw the problem of my lean right away. The top leaf spring behind the shock is broken in half. The break is so clean I am pretty sure it happened in transport when the driver drove off a ramp when shifting cars around. It is in a spot that unless you pulled a tire or put on a lift it would be very hard to see. Doubt PlyCar will care and just blow me off. So i ask, do I have to change that entire stacked assembly or can I just change the top leaf? And where on earth am I going to find it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theKiwi Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) I have no words of advice about the spring, but sheesh - you're in Texas - how warm do you need it to get in your barn down there??? LOL It's been a steady 15° F here in Michigan today, so rather than my barn I went to the Gilmore Car Museum to work on one of the cars there, but will be back in my barn tomorrow when it's meant to be about 33°F. 😉 Roger Edited December 19, 2019 by theKiwi Fixed my own name! (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Any reputable spring shop should be able to make you a new leaf. Not even very expensive if you R&R the spring yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 19 minutes ago, theKiwi said: you're in Texas - how warm do you need it to get in your barn down there??? LOL Lots of damage to my hands thanks to military experiences has made it quite hard some days when a 40 degree rain sets the chill into the joints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFitz Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) Chris, It can be replaced, or, welded. However, DO NOT accept a rusted spring as a replacement. It will break in a line through the area of the deepest rust pits - much like your check book checks are weakened and tear easily at the perforations. Find a truck spring/suspension shop. They should be able to weld the break, grind it flush, arc it back to spec (the Club website drawing file has the measurements) and have the large ovens to re-temper it. I've used a truck spring shop in Syracuse called "Allied Spring" for broken spring repairs, re-arcing sagged springs, and making new leaves. http://allied-spring.com/ If you can't find a shop, give them a call and it may be worth shipping your spring to them. Being in the home of Franklins, they've done a few Franklin springs. Paul Edited December 18, 2019 by PFitz (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Jim Staley in New York has quite a pile of Franklin parts.......and lost of them are already disassembled. He is in the club directory, give him a call.....he probably has several sets of springs lying on the floor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 20, 2019 Author Share Posted December 20, 2019 Not seeing Jim in the Roster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) Try the CCCA.....I’ll check also. PM sent. Edited December 20, 2019 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 20, 2019 Author Share Posted December 20, 2019 OK, sent him an email. Going through 151 parts manual I see it is leaf number 1, upper and lower. Page 403 Part R-1631. Guessing with the shackle this is unobtanium. So now that needs to come off. Looking at the job and for a repair shop to get right I assume giving them the entire stack so they have a way to weld and re-arch correctly? Getting it out doesn't look to hard. Getting it back together most likely will be. Can I remove the upper stack without unbolting the lower stack from the axle? This sound correct? Jack up axle to remove tire from axle and remove tire. place second jack under frame and lift car some and support off jack stand while other jack supports axle. Lower axle jack to find the "sweet spot" of not compressed nor hanging. Now should I remove the pivot bolts first or support the frame connection and remove those first? And any help on the best way too separate the stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFitz Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Brooklyn Beer said: OK, sent him an email. Going through 151 parts manual I see it is leaf number 1, upper and lower. Page 403 Part R-1631. Guessing with the shackle this is unobtanium. So now that needs to come off. Looking at the job and for a repair shop to get right I assume giving them the entire stack so they have a way to weld and re-arch correctly? Getting it out doesn't look to hard. Getting it back together most likely will be. Can I remove the upper stack without unbolting the lower stack from the axle? This sound correct? Jack up axle to remove tire from axle and remove tire. place second jack under frame and lift car some and support off jack stand while other jack supports axle. Lower axle jack to find the "sweet spot" of not compressed nor hanging. Now should I remove the pivot bolts first or support the frame connection and remove those first? And any help on the best way too separate the stack. Couple of things,.... First, if you look at the top of the parts book pages, that R-1638 is the "reference" number, not the part number. Franklin uses the "drawing number" as the part number. It's Drawing #88143 for that main leaf. The bad news is some of those 80,000 series drawings are missing,... and that's one of them. However, all is not lost. You have the measurements you need right on the other end of the axle - the other rear spring set. With the top main leaf broken, the bottom main leaf is likely to not be it's original arc, so don't trust that making the top match the bottom will get it back to original arch. A. Best way to have both sides closest to even height is to pull both sets of rear springs and give them to the spring shop to have them match the arc after the crack is welded and re-tempered. B. Next closest way, but less work to have both sides match. You can just take the unloaded measurements off the unbroken spring set. 1. If possible, support the weight of the rear of the car so that both rear wheels just start to touch the floor, but not start to compress the springs with the car's weight. 2. On the unbroken spring set, measure from the center of the spring pivot bolt to the center of the other pivot bolt. Then, at the mid point of their lengths, measure from the underside of the upper main leaf to the top side of the bottom main leaf. Give those measurements to the spring shop. Those type springs are not easy to get apart and even tougher to get back together - been there many times!!!!! I'd recommend you let the spring shop wrestle with that. Paul Edited December 20, 2019 by PFitz (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 2 hours ago, PFitz said: Those type springs are not easy to get apart and even tougher to get back together - been there many times!!!!! I'd recommend you let the spring shop wrestle with that. You can do it, I have done it several times, I would not do it again. Taking the spring out is easy, leave the rest to the professionals as Paul says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 20, 2019 Author Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) So your saying take it out as an assembly, then give the shop the replacement spring and let them restack it ? Edited December 20, 2019 by Brooklyn Beer (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 20, 2019 Author Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) Can someone verify if this is the correct drawing? well. I can't load it so here is the detail from the club site 54656 CHASSIS SPRING REAR LEFT.PDF Edited December 20, 2019 by Brooklyn Beer (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theKiwi Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 I think you need drawing 43887. The parts book says 45229 which is on drawing 43887 Roger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 21, 2019 Author Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) But that drawing is dated 1929 where as the one I posted is late 1930. Page 403 R-1631. Drawing 43887 correct ? Edited December 21, 2019 by Brooklyn Beer (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theKiwi Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) No I don't think so... 1 the drawing you posted, if you look at the card for it, says it was for Series 1550, which I understand was for prototype cars that didn't go in to production. I have encountered quite a few drawings that are in fact for parts for Series 15 cars, that do not indicate the Series 15 models on the drawings - the drawings weren't updated to include Series 15. But look at the card for 43887 - it tells that it was used on Series 15 The number in the parts book should be the correct one Roger Edited December 21, 2019 by theKiwi (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFitz Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) Drawing 43887 main leaf with the forge-welded cast steel end was a hold-over design used on some early Series 15, but Franklin changed to the rolled end main leaves during the production year. As a result the parts can not be interchanged. The exception being many of the Series 15 chassis that were sent out to coach builders, such as Dietrich and Derham, used leftover Series 14 chassis and axles. And that practice continued into late Series 15. I have a late production 153 with a 147 chassis in the family. The correct number for a Series 151 Sedan in the parts book is the one I listed, but again, that drawing is missing. To further complicate things,..... it's not just the design of the spring ends that differs. Franklin used different numbers of leaves, different lengths, and different leaf thicknesses, depending on which Series and which body style in that Series. Get the wrong one and it won't fit. The only way to use the earlier type main leaves such as drawing #43887 is to swap both complete right and left spring sets from the same body, and chassis length of a Series14, so that the rear axle will carry the same load and sit level. Paul Edited December 21, 2019 by PFitz (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 21, 2019 Author Share Posted December 21, 2019 ugh. Think I will push it into the back corner and throw a cover on it. It sounds like this borders on unobtanium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFitz Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 45 minutes ago, Brooklyn Beer said: But that drawing is dated 1929 where as the one I posted is late 1930. Page 403 R-1631. Drawing 43887 correct ? Chris, Yes, drawn in 1929, but if you look at the info in the title block those are all for 1930 Series 14. The drawing dates are often as much as several years ahead of the actual production date. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFitz Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Brooklyn Beer said: ugh. Think I will push it into the back corner and throw a cover on it. It sounds like this borders on unobtanium. Nope, it's solvable. Don't give up, it's easier than you think. With 40 years of working on Franklins full time, I know that H.H.Franklin's famous saying applies here - "It Can Be Done". Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 21, 2019 Author Share Posted December 21, 2019 If it can be found. And I need someone much more smarter then me about Franklins to know they have the right part to supply me with . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFitz Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 15 minutes ago, Brooklyn Beer said: If it can be found. And I need someone much more smarter then me about Franklins to know they have the right part to supply me with . You have a PM,.... Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 The parts should be around - just big and heavy = I have not had a Franklin in 14 years and still have one set of fronts, or maybe they are rears, or maybe a front and a rear for a S14 rotting around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 On 12/18/2019 at 3:07 PM, Brooklyn Beer said: For the past week I have been working on the shocks and shock links on my recently acquired 31 Franklin. Today it was warm enough to get out in the garage where the Franklin is sitting on the lift and remove the passenger side shock so I could change the oil and see about tuning it. Since the car arrived it has had a "lean" to the passenger side so was hoping that maybe it could be in the shock link itself. Remember i am new to the car. Well upon removing the shock I saw the problem of my lean right away. The top leaf spring behind the shock is broken in half. The break is so clean I am pretty sure it happened in transport when the driver drove off a ramp when shifting cars around. It is in a spot that unless you pulled a tire or put on a lift it would be very hard to see. Doubt PlyCar will care and just blow me off. So i ask, do I have to change that entire stacked assembly or can I just change the top leaf? And where on earth am I going to find it? You just need to talk to these folks. They have most of the specifications for springs for most makes. I had them make a main leaf spring for my 1931 Dodge. I am surprised nobody has mentioned them. https://www.eatondetroitspring.com/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooklyn Beer Posted December 26, 2019 Author Share Posted December 26, 2019 Have word out to a couple Franklin parts people and they are looking in their stash. If nothing comes up I will try them. Thanks for the tip ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 That break is common. When you get it apart , post the measurements . I have a pile of springs off cars Ive knocked in the head. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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