Morgan Wright Posted June 3, 2019 Author Share Posted June 3, 2019 Last year when I was hand cranking, cylinder 5 had the same compression as the others, and then suddenly dropped to 31. It happened so suddenly I'm thinking the valve cage seal still needs to be seated properly. Today I'm taking off the rocker on 5, and seeing if I can tighten the cage nuts a little more. If not, then I have to do a ring job. These numbers suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted June 3, 2019 Author Share Posted June 3, 2019 No dice. The cage nuts were tighter than a Kansas storm cellar during a Wizard of Oz rotation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 As I am thinking of soon starting reworking my starter/gen, I am looking for the page out of a Delco Service Manual for 1922 model 45. Would you have this to copy Morgan? Thanks, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted June 3, 2019 Author Share Posted June 3, 2019 Terry has that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROD W Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted June 3, 2019 Author Share Posted June 3, 2019 I tested for spark and the distributor is making a nice hot spark on the spark plug I pulled. However......... Something is wrong with cylinder 5. The compression is getting WORSE again, down to 31. If it's a wrist pin gouging against the cylinder wall I have to stop before I totally destroy the cylinder wall. I'm taking the piston out this week. And some other pistons as well......maybe just 5 and 6, but definitely 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Mark, Our friend, Rod Wise, from down under saved the day with his copy of the pages from the Delco Manual. Morgan is right, I do have this material, I just couldn't put my hands on it right now. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 He sure did. You guys are amazing on this forum. Thank you Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 I dropped the oil pan and looked up........all the cotter pins that hold the piston pins are fine. There is no gouging on any of the cylinder walls. I'm going to fix the rings by smearing some JB weld on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, Morgan Wright said: I'm going to fix the rings by smearing some JB weld on them. . How does that work? Would like to see pictures. Edited June 7, 2019 by Larry Schramm (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 I am wondering myself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 Nobody ever laughs at my JB weld jokes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted June 8, 2019 Author Share Posted June 8, 2019 I dropped piston 5 today and what a mess. The amount of carbon jammed in the rings and ring grooves was unbelievable. The carbon was all loose due to all the solvents I used to untick the engine, ranging from acetone and brake fluid mix, toluene and ATF mix, carb cleaner, brake cleaner, but the carbon was stuck UNDER the rings. I wish I took a pic before I wiped it off but I'll take a pic when I drop the next piston. I thought cleaning out the carbon would fix the problem with the rings, but I found out the rings were extremely worn down, by measuring the ring gap. I will show you next post. Here is the bore. Clean, smooth, no gouging. This pic also answers the question of whether valves can drop into the cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Are you going to pull the other pistons too? What is the ring side clearance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted June 8, 2019 Author Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) I put one of the rings into the cylinder to see the gap. It's supposed to go by the rule of 0.004 for every inch of bore, so a 3 3/8 bore would be 0.014. But the Buick manual says no less than 0.030. Look at the pic, the gap was 0.120!!!!! These rings are shot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited June 8, 2019 by Morgan Wright (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted June 8, 2019 Author Share Posted June 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, DonMicheletti said: Are you going to pull the other pistons too? What is the ring side clearance? Yeah, I'm doing all the pistons, might as well do it right. The ring side clearance............The diameter of the rings when fully compressed to zero gap is 3.32 inches but the diameter of the piston skirt is 3.36. The ring fully expanded by its spring pressure is 3.40 but the gap is huge at that point, when you compress the ring to the same diameter of the piston, the gap is .11 that is terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Dave at Otto machine told me that end clearance on my 1922 should be between15 and 50 thousands. I too have 3 3/8 bore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted June 9, 2019 Author Share Posted June 9, 2019 Mine is 120 thousandths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Morgan, I mean the side clearance between the ring and its grove. Are the groves OK? The .120" end gap is huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted June 9, 2019 Author Share Posted June 9, 2019 6 hours ago, DonMicheletti said: Morgan, I mean the side clearance between the ring and its grove. Are the groves OK? The .120" end gap is huge. Makes you think that piston 5 was being carried along by the other pistons, like 5 guys on a work crew and the 6th guy is Bernie Sanders. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 The amount of carbon you removed pointed to a ring issue. The nice thing about these engines is that valve guide wear is not a contributor to oil consumption nor carbon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) OK I got piston 5 and 6 out so far. Here is 6 before and after: . . Edited June 20, 2019 by Morgan Wright (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Thats some serious carbon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Photo #2 has an oil control ring. Are those the new ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 Yeah as recommended and sold by Dave at Otto. The others are new too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted June 23, 2019 Author Share Posted June 23, 2019 This morning I installed piston 5 and 6 and plastigauged the rod bearings to 0.003. Perfect results all around. Everything is smooth, the babbit on 6 was like new. I did not have to remove any shims, they were already the right plastigauge. Ready to do 3 and 4 tomorrow. I spent 3 hours on my back a few days ago trying to get piston 6 in. No matter what I did, it wouldn't go in all the way. The 3 compression rings jiggled right in, in less than a minute, but the oil ring was hung up on something, because the piston at that point had no wiggle room. I could get the oil ring into the casting but not into the sleeve. I took the piston in and out half a dozen times trying to figure out the problem, maybe the bore was too small at the bottom and the rings went to zero gap and got stuck, maybe the oil rings weren't the right shape to taper into the cylinder sleeve. I thought of everything and experimented, and then after 3 hours I discovered, about a quarter of the way around the bore at the bottom, the cylinder sleeve was not tapered smoothly at the bottom, there was a small ledge of around 0.025 inch thickness where the sleeve stopped at the block casting, that the oil ring was getting stuck on. I could actually stick my thumbnail into it. I thought all week how to solve the problem. Maybe get some really thin feeler gauges around 0.08 to straddle the ledge like a shoehorn. Then I thought, it would be better to get some thick feeler gauges, shove them in around the ring and butt them into the ledge. That's what I did, I aligned the gap of the ring to the offending part of the sleeve, stuck two feeler gauges of around 0.030, one on either side of the gap, and shoehorned the oil ring on them, couple soft taps with the rubber hammer, and BINGO the piston went up and the feeler gauges fell down. I had to do a similar thing getting piston #5 in, but by then I had the knack. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted June 24, 2019 Author Share Posted June 24, 2019 #4 today #3 tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thriller Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 On 6/9/2019 at 4:53 PM, Morgan Wright said: Makes you think that piston 5 was being carried along by the other pistons, like 5 guys on a work crew and the 6th guy is Bernie Sanders. #5 must have been the supervisor of a government crew. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted June 30, 2019 Author Share Posted June 30, 2019 Been sick all week, I'll see if I'm up to doing #3 today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted June 30, 2019 Author Share Posted June 30, 2019 Did #3 today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted July 3, 2019 Author Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) Ring job done, oil pan back on and torqued, (miraculously did not strip any oil pan bolts in the soft aluminum), pinsize hole in the oil pan welded with JB, put 10 gallons of non-ethanol gas in the tank, vacuum tank filled with gas, carburetor leak fixed, fuel line between vacuum tank and gas tank filled with gas (required sucking on a banjo), everything oiled and greased. Ready to start the car for the first time in 80 years on July 4 morning. Edited July 4, 2019 by Morgan Wright (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 Can’t wait to hear how it goes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted July 4, 2019 Author Share Posted July 4, 2019 Went out early this morning around 8 AM when it was still cool. It fired right up, no problem at all. Ran it for 15 minutes and made me a cool video https://youtu.be/CIPmxELliK4 in the process. . They really made these Buicks well. . . 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Since you had the engine running for a while and more than likely got it up to normal operating temperature, if it were me, I would check out the manifold clamps and see if they need to be tightened up a bit more. That might possibly help the leaking situation on the one cylinder. Just something to check out. That is really wild that the engine started right up and no carburetor adjustment was done to improve performance. Likewise on the timing. I suspect that when the day comes that I start my engine for the first time after the rebuild, the neighbors are going to call the Fire Department because of the smoke from the burning off of the assembly grease. Pretty cool way to celebrate the 4th. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 37 minutes ago, Terry Wiegand said: That is really wild that the engine started right up and no carburetor adjustment was done to improve performance. Likewise on the timing. I did, but I was so slick about it you didn't notice. When it started, I immediately turned the air from "choke" to "hot," which caused it to run much faster so I quickly advanced the spark with one hand and lowered the throttle, the hand is quicker than the eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) Morgan, Congratulations. What a great way to celebrate the 4th. It sounds really good. That is a big step getting the engine resurrected. Thanks for the video. Hugh Edited July 5, 2019 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Great video Morgan. Im jealous. Hope my 22 starts like that when I get to start it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Congratulations Morgan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted July 13, 2019 Author Share Posted July 13, 2019 If I had known how much fun it is to start these cars with the hand crank, and how much easier it is, I never would have wasted all that time fixing up the friggin electric starter!!! Starts on the first pull every time!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 That’s great. How are those new rings doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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