oakhurst Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) Engine starts and sounds fine but I'm seeing no flow on the sight gauge for oil pressure. Tried to flush with MMO but it didn't change anything. Any secret to check if there is oil pressure and it's just the "gauge?" Edited January 27, 2019 by oakhurst (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 I would disconnect the line at the gauge, slip on some kind of hose, get a can for oil, start the engine and see if oil flows. Work backward from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelroadster Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Are you sure this engine had actual oil pressure? Many times sight gauges were used to check oil dripping for a splash system. These cars usually had a way to adjust the flow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakhurst Posted January 28, 2019 Author Share Posted January 28, 2019 Trying to prime the pump through one of the lines going to the gauge was my first thought, but getting to the back of the gauge requires removal of the dash and steering column. One of the copper lines goes to the front of the engine near the fan and the other looks like a return to the oil pan right near the oil fill and "float gauge'" Not sure where the pump would be located. I don't know about the actual pressure, but it always did show "flow" through the window on the "gauge." I guess it's time to RTFM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Hello, 1913 Studebaker 25 owner here... I strongly suspect your oil pump isn't working. I suggest not running it until you figure this out. My "gauge" (sight glass) is missing and has been bypassed so I can't really tell you for sure. If mine stops oiling I wont know. Here is how I think it is supposed to work. The pump just lifts oil up into the sight glass, and then it drips down a tube into the troughs for the rod dippers, and anything else that it oils, (water pump and cam gears?). The main bearings might be oiled directly, I'm not sure about that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakhurst Posted January 28, 2019 Author Share Posted January 28, 2019 I did finally read the manual and when working properly the pumped oil goes through the sight glass and then to the timing gears at the front of the engine, then back into the pan. It is called a "Circulating Splash System" combined with "Forced Feed" to timing gears and "Forced Feed Spray" to the connecting rod bearings. It also says that the piston pump may go dry after non use and should be primed. That is my next step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakhurst Posted January 28, 2019 Author Share Posted January 28, 2019 Priming did not work so I am trying to remove the oil pump. It is a piston type pump driven by the camshaft. I got it all disconnected and loose, but what I think is the piston wrapped in a coil spring moves but will not come out from the block. Any ideas? I will try again tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 11 hours ago, Bloo said: Hello, 1913 Studebaker 25 owner here... My "gauge" (sight glass) is missing and has been bypassed so I can't really tell you for sure. If mine stops oiling I wont know. Splice in a piece of clear tubing so you have a visual. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 5 hours ago, oakhurst said: It is a piston type pump driven by the camshaft. I got it all disconnected and loose, but what I think is the piston wrapped in a coil spring moves but will not come out from the block. Ah.....piston pump. Likely a bad/stuck check ball. Since they operate in oil all the time it's unlikely it's worn out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakhurst Posted January 29, 2019 Author Share Posted January 29, 2019 I agree about the faulty check ball. Trying to remove the pump now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakhurst Posted January 29, 2019 Author Share Posted January 29, 2019 Got the pump out. Now to see if we can find out what's wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studenut1915 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 I have a 1915 SD4 built Canada. It sat for 6o years before I bout it in 2010. I tried to drain the oil but would not come out. I took off the pan and found it was filled with a heavy jelly type mush. Not sure what the situation is with your car. There is a tray that sits above the oil level in the pan that has troughs in it. The throughs are fed from the oil pump and what runs back down into them by gravity. The rod bolts are extended to splash the oil that makes it into the trough into the crankcase. There is no force feed to the bearings. That is the only form of engine lubrication. The pump also feeds the site gauge and then the oil goes to the timing gears. The pump piston simply rides on a cam lobe You should be careful installing the pump as the piston could fall into the pan. There is also a screen about 4 inches long that extends into the pan where the pump pick up the oil. There is a good chance that it could be plugged. After cleaning everything, lubing everything inside as best I could, and reinstalling my oil pan and installing the pump, I primed the pump through the removable cap in the top of the pump. I could not get oil to the site gauge by turning it over but I had oil in the site gauge after about 5 seconds after it started. If you haven't removed your pan or do not know when it was done I would highly recommend doing so. My site gauge fills up immediately on startup and stays full all of the time. The solder on my site gauge to line connection had failed and I had to re-solder them. Good luck. These cars start and run great and are a blast to drive Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakhurst Posted February 2, 2019 Author Share Posted February 2, 2019 Studenut1915 Thanks so much for your comment. What I have learned so far is consistent with what you said. I found debris (a French work for trash) on the sealing ball bearing on the check valve. Am about to resemble and test for flow at the sight gauge.. After your comment I may consider removing the pan and checking that out further. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gossjh Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 I previously had an EC6 and I had to clear the ball check area and the flow was small. It started to flow less right as I was delivering to the new owner, so I told him about it. He tore in to it and found the end of something close to a gun cleaning swab. This was not done on my watch, so who knows how long it was in the line. Just saying, check out everything that you can while inspecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakhurst Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 Installed the cleaned and tested pump, added 4.5 quarts of 30w non detergent oil, started the engine and still no flow. Will now be towing/pushing car to the barn where the lift is. Then pull the pan and hopefully find the problem. Perhaps sludge in the pan. Can't think of anything else that would cause the pump not to flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) It is folly to think you should use non-detergent oil. That is probably why it is not flowing. The oil ways are blocked with muck, which is what no-additive oil will do for you. When the oil flow stops (e.g. you stop the engine) or slows, the muck is dropped and it is not picked up again. Gradually all the oil ways are blocked - in the crankshaft, dippers, timing gear, around the tappets, in any oil pickup or pump - you name it, it will be clogged or lined with a thick layer of black muck. Oils of today are better than they ever have been for lubricating old engines, if you use an appropriate oil. You will have to find the blockages and clean them out. Then use a 5W-30 oil. Remember that ANY synthetic oil will minimise wear better than ALL mineral oils. The 5W in the viscosity grade means the oil behaves as an SAE 5 oil when cold, which means lubrication begins very soon after startup. A thick oil will take time to be pumped around (and won't splash so much) so wear occurs. Your crappy no-additive oil will be thick at startup then thin right out to water, then as you use it, it will turn to sludge. This means you will have very little lubrication, if any, for a good while after startup. Sludge formation was one of the big problems recognised very early on and exercised oil engineer's minds for many years - and still does. That is one of the reasons additives are used now and oil change intervals in the early days were very short. Search these fora about oil. There are many, many discussions about why so-called "non-detergent" oil is a crock and everything you and your advisers thought you knew about why you should use it is plain wrong. Sorry for the stern language, but these myths must be banished to the dust bin. Edited February 20, 2019 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakhurst Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 With all due respect to the Non detergent oil controversy, this is a new vehicle to me and I do not know what oil has been used in the past. I suspect non detergent oil has been used and perhaps this is my problem, not the oil but the sludge left in the pan. But thank you for your comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 To support comments of Spinneyhill, the worst oil today is better than the best oil in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 6 hours ago, oakhurst said: this is my problem, not the oil but the sludge left in the pan. That is what I was thinking. When you have cleaned it out, put in a 5W-30 and expect to change it after a thousand miles or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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