Tim Wolfe Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Haven't been able to find new outer axle seals for our model 70 coupe, so I'm having some seal housings made at a local machine shop. Mine leaked and ruined the brake linings on the real axle. I had a set of reproduction seals on the car and the mounting holes were out of line with the center of the modern seal and caused them to leak. Chrysler part number for original seals 304009 Victor seal # 26031. Anyone else have the same problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dep5 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 We machined a new seal retainer, 1932 Chrysler Imperial 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 I heard that Rare Parts has them or maybe Olson's Gaskets.... https://www.olsonsgaskets.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wolfe Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 Thanks John and dep5. The one's that dep5 made look just like the ones I'm having quoted at the machine shop. I texted the people John mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narve N Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 I had a local shop make me new ones out of the old using modern "circlip" seals with correct inner diameter and adapted to the outer. Believe I got the idea from these pages? And it works, however the company is very slow to deliver (measured in years). Modern version to the left. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 What went into the brake linings? If it was differential oil, your inner seals need replacing too. You have to remove the axle and the bearings to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsmoke Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 My understanding is that these were primarily intended to retain the grease in the axle bearings, and to prevent road dirt/dust from getting into the axle bearing area. Mine are similar, a leather seal backed by a circular spring, still seem to work just fine after 90 years. As Spinneyhill suggests, most common sources of oil in the brake shoe area was caused by differential oil getting by the inner seal, or brake fluid from a leaking wheel cylinder. While rear-ends were only filled to the plug level, when heated up if there was no pressure relief, oil could be forced out thru inner seal into bearing area and into shoe area. I don't know if inner seals are readily available, I will likely replace mine on my Chrysler CD8 project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wolfe Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 I plan on replacing the inner seals also. I have located some nos outer seals and a couple inner seals. The outer seals are very hard and I'll have to try to soften them. Anyone a replacement seal for a National Seal # 5156 or Victor # 26031, they replaced the Chrysler inner seal. I want to use modern inner seals if I can find them. I will be replacing the brake linings too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wolfe Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 Anyone know of a replacement seal? I've got to start reading what I type before I send it !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 (edited) What is the Chrysler part number for the inner seal? 1930 Dodge Brothers 8 was 43049 I think. The felt on its own was 43050. The replacement was bought by size rather than number, in fact it didn't have a seal number. It is an NAK 1.375x2.313x0.437 double lip with spring and "rubber" outer, 12 NZD plus shipping. Neither Timken nor SKF list a seal that size. Neither company's interchange guide lists the National or Victor numbers you have given. Edited November 24, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wolfe Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 Chrysler # 304004 Might have to wait until I remove the leaking seal and take it to a bearing company to match it up ( Bearings Inc. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 (edited) Sounds different to mine. Probably bigger. Neither Timken nor SKF list an interchange for that seal number. I measured what I removed (axle dia. and seal dia. = bore size) and used the telephone to find the seal. I spoke to a company in Auckland and it came from their New Plymouth branch. Let your fingers do the walking! I used a slide hammer puller to remove it, with the smallest two fingers in the set. You 1st need to remove the inner bearing cup the same way. The seal will be destroyed but you might be able to measure it. If the sealing surface on the axle is not smooth, you will have to make it so. I fitted a sleeve. There are several brands of them - Speedy, Kwik, Wear-Pro etc.. While in there, find out why it failed. It usually takes lateral movement. And fix that failure. When I took the drum off, the nut was basically loose. I had tightened it to >140 lb.ft a few years ago (me hopping on the bar). I found the outer cone was turning on the axle, meaning the axle was worn. Before I started, I had lateral movement of the wheel. Thinking back, I had trouble with that wheel 20+ years ago when the keyway was slogged out in the axle - there was a "clonk" on changing direction. These things were probably all inter-related. I replaced the axle to correct the wear but the NOS axle was a bit pitted, hence the sleeve on the sealing surface. Edited November 24, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Tim Wolfe said: Chrysler # 304004 Might have to wait until I remove the leaking seal and take it to a bearing company to match it up ( Bearings Inc. ) Felpro catalogue 1940 lists the Chry 70 rear inner seal as 304012 and the outer as 304004. Their interchange was S2519. The size of that is 1.500 x 2.703 x 13/32. Timken's nearest is for bore 2.716", a bit big. SKF's is the same. So you need another brand, as I did. You need to confirm these numbers. The size it gives for the Dodge 8 seal is not what I found that fitted! Edited November 24, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wolfe Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 Thanks for the input. I was an assembly foreman before I retired. One of my departments built the clutch and driveshaft assemblies for large metal forming presses, and the gearboxes for right angle drives. I feel comfortable that I can rebuild the axle after I locate the parts. Wouldn't good prints be great !!?? Again, thanks for the input, any experience and knowledge is appreciated. A friend in the Northeast gave me the seal information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 (edited) Xclnt. You are onto it then. The size given is for a felt seal so the ID is probably smaller than you might use for a modern seal. The Dodge ID given is 1-7/32 which is a bit less than 1-3/8! There is thus a bit of crush in the felt seal. That OD also is probably seal OD. Bore size is probably about 0.008" less. Edited November 24, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wolfe Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 Well, I have good news! The grease was from a poor fitting outer axle seal and not the inner seals. The eight mounting holes were out of line with the center of the seal. The metal of the seal was rubbing the hub so hard that the rubber seal was pushed way up and letting the grease leak. Do not buy the pressed out sheet metal bearing housing that have a lip seal in them, buy ones turned on a lathe so everything is concentric. I was lucky enough to find a few NOS outer seals for the car so I won't have to have new housings turned. ( unless I can't get the NOS rubber seals to soften up! ) Thanks to all for the input and advice . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Xclnt. That'll save a bit of work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Will it disperse into the oil if you don't mix it first? I would expect that to take a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Dave Fields said: Consider pumping in grease to thicken the viscosity of the differential oil. I know early brass owners use this trick. Let's think about this. Any "grease" (today's definition) channels and is pushed away from the gears unless it is --and remains--completely mixed with "oil." Bear in mind that "axle grease" as specified in pre-1930 (essentially, for non-hypoid) differentials was really not grease as we define it today but rather a heavy oil commonly known as 600W--the dark, smelly, viscous stuff. Today Restoration Supply sells a modern ISO 1500 "Meropa" gear oil suitable for heavily loaded gearbox application. I use it in the diff of my 1918 Pierce because of the leaky felt seal that will require a lot of time and effort to fix. There are also modern ISO 480 and -680 oils designed for gearboxes; I use the 480 in that car's transmission. Given the availability of these modern gear oils, I don't think it wise to add (today's) grease to differential or transmission oil. Additionally, it has been pointed out in these fora that if one installs lip seals on a pre-1930 differential, one should add a vent--because the felt seals served the essential purpose of letting air and pressure in and out. The lip seals seal too well and then a vent is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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