REPORTS ON A 1914 HUMBERETTE RESTORATION

[Mike Macartney]

With one side of the 'ring' marked with a line for cutting I now needed to try and think of a way to scribe a cut line 180 degrees away from my original line.

 

 

I drew some concentric circles with a vertical centre line in my book and centred the tube on the circles. I then marked the opposite side, turned the tube over and marked the other edge. I could then scribe the other cut line.

 

 

The tube cut nicely with the 1mm cutting disc in the angle grinder.

 

 

Now for the lugs for the clamps. I should have used some marking out blue, this was up in the other shed and I was too lazy to go and get it!

 

 

The four lugs where bolted together. . . .

 

 

The sides and corners machined in the milling machine and finished off on the linisher.

 

 

I marked up the ends and the tube bits with a felt pen so I did not get them muddled up.

 

 

I made a small jig to hold the parts together in the correct place while I tack welded the bits together (thanks jp for getting me into jigs!). Notice the Vee'd out grooves for the weld to go into.

 

 

After grinding the excess weld off the first clamp I used the this as a 'jig' for tack welding the second half together.

 

 

I would like to lay a weld on the outside joint. The problem is I want it to look neat and don't want it to get in the way of the bolt head. I will have a practise first with a couple of bits of scrap 1/8" plate to get the settings correct on the welder before I try it for real.

 

 

I checked the clamp fitted and checked it would fit my cardboard pattern for the bell housing bracket. Next job; make the clamp for the other side exhaust downpipe and cut the 1/8" thick plate out for the piece from the bell housing to the clamp.

 

 

 

 

[Mike Macartney]

After making the first exhaust clamp I set out making the second clamp. I won't bore you with the same details, just the things I forgot to mention in my last post.

 

 

This time I decided to bolt the 'flanges' to the jig first, to mark them, before cutting them to the correct length.

 

 

Showing the flanges welded on, before grinding off the excess with a coarse flap disc, attached to an angle grinder.

 

 

. . . . as well as grinding the sides . . .

 

 

. . . .  and finishing off on the linisher.

 

 

The flanges bolted to the jig and set parallel before tightening the bolts. At this stage the holes in the flanges are smaller than the sizes they will be.

 

 

I looked everywhere on, and under the bench for the nut for the second set screw! 'Muggins' here had screwed two nuts onto one set screw - you just can't help some people!

 

 

The top half of the clamp has a clearance hole for the M6 set screw and the bottom half is threaded. My idea is to also have a nut to lock the bolt in place when the bolt is tight I will have a bit of tidying up to do on these clamps, but I am waiting on, or putting off welding the joint adjacent to the bolt head. I haven't got the confidence today, that I can do a decent looking weld. The problem is that if I do a crap weld it is difficult to grind the weld off in the position it is - so let's have a go at cutting the plate out. . . .

 

 

I clamped the 1/8" sheet to the bench and started cutting out the plate, that will connect the clamp to the bellhousing, I used a 1mm cutting disc in the angle grinder.

 

 

Well that's it roughed out, now to get rid of the 'sharks teeth'. I used the bench grinder to clean up the edges, finishing off with the flap disc in the angle grinder.

 

 

It looks more or less like the cardboard pattern. Presumably, I could have used the milling machine to cut this shape out. When I have tried doing this in the past I have found it difficult to work out which way to turn the handles on the milling table and ended up in a muddle by turning a handle the wrong way, messing the job up by cutting into the bit of metal I wanted to keep whole! Next job is to make sure the holes are put in the correct places to line up with the bell housing bolts.

[JV Puleo]

I like it. It makes me think I ought to learn how to weld one of these days. I actually have gas, stick and mig welding equipment - none of it new or particularly good. I inherited the mig welder and have never touched it but maybe I should. I think I'd have done the small radius with a milling cutter... you an mount a horizontal side-milling cutter in a vertical mill with a stub arbor and mill down... it will give you a radius the diameter of the cutter.

Edited May 4, 2019 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[Mike Macartney]

Get a friend who can weld to have a look at the MIG welder, that you have, to see if he can get it working, they can then show you the basics of MIG welding with your machine. They say it's as easy as using a glue gun. Not having ever used a glue gun I can't say!

 

I need to think about using my milling machine more. Thanks for the tip. The smaller radius is not round as it fits the clamp at an angle as will be seen in my next post. Using a side horizontal milling cutter would have machined most of the metal away and saved a lot of grinding. Next time I have a shaped plate to make I'll have a go with the mill.

[Mike Macartney]

With the plate cut out for the exhaust downpipe bracket I needed to think how I was going to make sure the holes for the bolts in the bellhousing lined up.

 

 

I traced around my cardboard pattern, into my note book, and marked the dimensions I needed to measure. Although Humber used a number of metric thread nuts and bolts, I was sure that most of the engineering measurements would be in Imperial. At first I used my Vernier caliper to measure the distances between the outside and inside of the two threaded studs that were sticking out on the bellhousing side. This proved a bit too accurate, so I used a 6" steel rule to check my Vernier caliper measurements and came to the conclusion that the distance between the centres of these studs was 3-7/8".

 

 

I centre punched the position of the first hole, then used my spring type divider caliper set at 3-7/8" to mark a possible position for the second hole. I chose what I thought was the best position for the second hole and punched the centre for that hole with a entre punch. Clamped the plate to the drill bench table and drilled pilot holes first, before drilling clearance holes for the 7/16" diameter studs.

 

 

Now to see if it fits on the bellhousing?

 

 

I don't know whether it was more by luck than judgment - the plate actually fitted over the studs perfectly, without having to make the holes larger.

 

 

When all the bolts were tightened up and everything was where is should be, I tack welded the plate to the clamp.

 

 

Then removed the part to the bench and welded the clamp to the plate. Removed the complete bracket from the bellhousing and exhaust downpipe, blasted it in the cabinet to clean it, then replaced it on the car. I will paint it when I paint the rest of the exhaust parts with high temperature black exhaust paint. Now to make the bracket and clamp for the right hand exhaust downpipe. I would like to make a similar bracket on the right hand side of the car.

[Mike Macartney]

Since I bought the Humberette last June, I have been looking for a period mirror, at a reasonable price, new ones seemed to be very expensive and good second hand ones seem few and far between.

 

This one turned up on eBay and I bought it.

 

 

 

The mounting bracket leaves a lot to be desired, but at least the mirror head is in reasonable condition. I can make a new mounting bracket in brass or steel to screw it to the wooden windshield support. There are a few small patches behind the glass where the silvering is damaged, but I am not too bothered by this, as it adds to the patina of the car. The make is Lucas.

[Mike Macartney]

With the support bracket made for the left hand exhaust downpipe its time to make a similar one for the right hand exhaust.

 

 

Easy I thought! The problem being that the exhaust on the right hand side the exhaust is lower and I needed to make a different shaped plate to fix the downpipe to the bellhousing. I got down under there to make another cardboard pattern and realised I would also have to make different diameter clamp as the downpipe at this point was on a join and the outside diameter was larger. I said to myself "Oh dear what a shame", more likely - I came out with some stronger words!

 

 

The other most suitable point on the exhaust down pipe was on the downward part from the flange that bolts to the cylinder barrel. At least the second clamp that I had already made could be used in this position. It is a 'bit busy' in this area with the radiator hose, steering box throttle and advance/retard linkage. I thought about using the two studs that bolt the engine to the engine mounting plate, but the nut on the lower stud would not come off completely as it was too close to exhaust pipe. How about a bracket that bolts to a threaded hole in the engine mounting plate, I thought?

 

 

I used this bore gauge to check the distances between the top and bottom of the clamp.

 

 

I also tried this gap gauge but it would not fit in as the handle part was too large.

 

 

Now with the measurement's  between the downpipe and the engine mounting plate, I could make a cardboard pattern, with a little trimming it fitted.

 

 

I found a scrap bit of 2" x 1" 14 gauge box section that I could cut the bracket out of.

 

 

After cleaning the rough edges off the bracket I tacked it on to check if it fitted. I only did a small tack as I needed to take it apart easily if it did not fit. As I went to pick it up the two parts fell apart? My mind then wandered to thoughts of welding the other side of the lugs on the clamps. On this clamp as the back part of it is hidden I could attempt to do a neat weld on this one, as if the weld looked crap it wouldn't matter, as no body would see it! Over a cup of tea I pondered why my welds are not as good as they used to be when I was working in the bodyshop. I have a auto darkening welding mask, lately, I have found it difficult to see through when welding and wondered if that was my problem? I took the mask apart and looked through the front clear protective lens, it was filthy. As I didn't have a spare I cleaned it up with plastic polish and reassembled the mask. I tried welding with it and it made a huge difference. I could now see what I was doing.

 

 

A lot better but not quite as good as I would have liked.

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Mike Macartney
last photo deleted as it should not have been included (see edit history)

[Mike Macartney]

Just to finish off the posts on the exhaust pipe support clamps.

 

 

The nuts for both of the clamps had the writing machined off the heads in the lathe.

 

 

Getting ready to weld the bracket onto the clamp (I should have put a glove on - It got hot when I welded it!)

 

 

Blasted and ready to try to see if it fits.

 

 

It fitted fine. I was then able to scribe through the hole to mark the engine mounting plate with an angled scriber.

I'll paint all the exhaust parts when we have a nice sunny day so that I can paint it outside in the fresh air.

 

 

Now it's time for a good clear up.

[Mike Macartney]

I put a post under General Discussions about some advice on repairing the radiator on the Humberette. Previously I have had lots of replies to my posts, but this time, only two replies which was a little disappointing.

 

When I bought the car from the son of the last restorer, who died, he said his father had spent £1,000 having the radiator repaired. If this was so, in my opinion, he didn't do a wonderful job!

I decided to test the rad for leaks, made some plugs to block the hoses and poured in some water.

 

 

There appears to be quite a big leak from where the overflow pipe exits the header tank.

 

 

I am concerned that if I try and melt the solder around this area I may cause more leaks that will be more difficult to repair. After cleaning the area of the leak, is it best to put wet cloth around the area of the leak before resoldering the joint? Or, should I use something else? I remember from my days in the bodyshop we used something, I think, was called 'Cold Front' when heat shrinking.

 

 

Another area for concern is on the right hand side of the radiator shell. The hood side (bonnet) must have been rubbing on the rear edge of the brass and has worn the corner away. as I have tried to show in the above photo. The outer shell of the radiator appears to be soldered to the radiator, therefore I don't want to disturb this soldering.

 

I have thought of two ways to repair this.

 

1. Make a strip of brass to solder in to replace the missing area with some tags at the back to give it more strength to solder to each side of the joint.
2. Cut out the return flange on the left side of the photo. Then make a new right angle part in brass to solder in place. Make another flat piece of brass to strengthen the joint behind the joint. Then try and solder the parts in place.

 

Your thoughts would be appreciated on these ideas, or can you suggest a better option?

 

There are dents to the radiator shell, which I think, if I try to remove them may prove difficult and may cause cracking to the brass shell. Perhaps I should leave the dents. Your thoughts would be appreciated.

 

 

 

Just to amuse you, here is a photo of the last restorers idea of a front hood hinge pin location.

 

 

A new use for a wing nut!

 

Hoping somebody reading this post can give me some advice or their thoughts?

Edited May 9, 2019 by Mike Macartney
punctuation. (see edit history)

[R.White]

Hello Mike.  I have been following with interest.  When I replaced the neck of my radiator I used microfibre cloths soaked in water to protect the solder that I feared could melt and give me even more problems.  I think you are wise not to attempt removal of the shell.  I think this is a specialist job.  Personally, I would pay to get the shell repaired professionally; an expensive item in any restoration but worth every penny to get it looking it's best.

 

Ray.

[Mike Macartney]

Ray,

 

Many thanks for your reply. I was very interested to see the photos. Did you copper plate the neck and then nickel plate it before soldering it to the radiator? Is the plating kit an electric brush on system? If so where did you get it from?

 

It seems the wet cloth idea works then.

 

Looking at the rad again this morning. I think you are right in that I would be better leaving it to a specialist to remove and repair the shell. I'll see if I can get an estimate of the cost involved. I'll add some more photos later, that I took this morning.

 

[alsfarms]

Good Morning Mike,

This time of year is very easy for me to stay overly busy with things "not auto related".  I just noticed that my responses to you have been off, just a bit, and for that I apologize!  You are a very creative craftsman in how you addressed a mechanical need to improve a weak point in your exhaust system.  You and I must have been poured out of the same boot as I would have made a very similar approach to that very problem.  Then how you devised to make the brackets all the same instead of some rather crude thing that we Utah farmers would have tried, you did it right.  My thinking on the radiator issue mentioned above, I don't have faith in the previous repair story you were told.  Wear, wing nut an piles of solder, oh no.  (Almost sounds like the Wizard of Oz)!  If I were in your predicament, I think I would actually approach the core first, clean clean clean and then adequate flux, control the heat from doing collateral damage and fix the leak in the core.  I would then approach the solder that needs removal and some additional love.  As good a craftsman as you are, I know you could facilitate a redo and end up with a very much nicer job and get the darn leak stopped at the same time.  I would then approach the worn side trim.  I agree, I would form a new replacement piece, remove what is needed and clean clean clean then solder in the repair piece in place.  Lastly, if the dents in the top tank skin had some deeper gashes, I might be nervous, but I think you could likely build some type of long reach tool that you could use from the inside to dolly out the dings.  You may not get them out perfectly but I would bet that you could tidy those dings to where it appears much cleaner and would not damage the integrity of the brass skin.  Now be sure of this Mike, the above are simply my "two cent" comments and would be my approach.  You have the making of a very nice looking radiator, but one that has a few issues.  The radiator, for my Locomobile, needs both sides replaced from top to bottom and I am not scared of that job.  With care, I think your radiator could be made to look better and you would end up with something that does not leak as a bonus.

Al

[alsfarms]

Second thought,  I just read your response to Ray.  That idea is also a good option, if you have a trusted radiator guy that can do better work than you and it doesn't take your left leg and two fingers to finance the job.  Your leg is an important thing to you getting around!

Al

[R.White]

https://www.gaterosplating.co.uk/plating-kits

 

Mike.  Here is a link to the electro plating kit suppliers.  I have only had success with small items using a brush kit. When I attempted to do my radiator shell I found that when I took a break for lunch and returned to the work, there was a definite "line" where I had restarted. I eventually handed it over to Derby Plating who did a fine job.

 

With regard to the radiator neck, I made sure that the underside was cleaned back to brass so the solder would take.  I then tinned both surfaces before final assembly.  

 

I don't know if other plating kits are any better than the one I used. The only criticism I would make is that is that the wands are not really up to doing a lot of parts and I ended up making my own.  I am sure you will be easily able to adapt the equipment to suit your needs.

 

(BTW are you doing Brighton this year?  If you need a passenger let me know.  Cheers.  Ray.)

[Mike Macartney]

Thanks guys, I appreciate all your feedback.

 

I found the leaky culprit!

 

 

I am happy to have a go repairing the leak, but I am still in a dilemma about what to do with 'Winston's the 'under the railway arches in Brixton expensive restoration/repairs to the radiator!'

 

 

The core of the radiator looks in very good condition and I assume this was replaced. I am thinking now of using it 'as is' after I have repaired the leak whilst getting a price for a professional rebuild. If it is going to cost an 'arm and a leg' - I might be hopping mad! If it costs an arm and two legs - I'll end up bumming around afterwards!

 

Seriously, if it is very expensive to repair professionally I may do my best with it and leave some of it's battle scars.

 

 

As the car was purchased new in 1914, just before the start of the Great War (WW1) and taken off the road 8-years after the war. The dents and blemished are at least period!

 

I'll see if I can get a price of this company http://www.vintagecarradiatorcompany.co.uk/radiators/restoration

Edited May 10, 2019 by Mike Macartney
punctuation. (see edit history)

[Mike Macartney]

Well, I taken the plunge and emailed for a 'ball park' price for the radiator restoration.

 

 

 

 

 

I did try using a Scotchbrite and polishing bob in the Dremel type tool to see if I could tidy up the excess solder. The work would be very laborious and still look like a 'sows ear'!

[alsfarms]

Hello Mike,

Patience is a virtue for sure when dealing with some of our projects.

Al

[R.White]

There seems to be a patch in each of the four corners of the rad.?  I would hope a restorer could effect a repair that obviates the need for them.  I think It would certainly improve the look if the radiator was tidied up; indeed, I notice that the core appears not to be square with the surround.   However,  I appreciate that not everyone thinks the same as me and that to some the car is merely showing signs of it's age.

 

I think you are to be commended for returning the car to how it might have presented originally.  

 

Ray.

Edited May 10, 2019 by R.White
missed a bit (see edit history)

[r1lark]

8 hours ago, Mike Macartney said:

 

 

As the car was purchased new in 1914, just before the start of the Great War (WW1) and taken off the road 8-years after the war. The dents and blemished are at least period!

 

 

So Mike, is the article talking about the specific car you own now?

[Mike Macartney]

Yes, the car I am restoring now is the same Humberette that is the photo above. The first person to buy the car started the restoration and died 2 to 3 years ago, the next person who bought the car died in June last year at the age of 73. I then bought the car, hoping that it is third time lucky, and that I finish the restoration, before I too 'pop my clogs'! I'm keeping my fingers crossed, as I'm 72, but due to years of smoking and working in a bodyshop, without wearing a mask, my lungs are shot. Even walking down to the garage 35 yards I am struggling for breath and have to take a breather before I start working on the car. Let that be a warning to others not to be so 'Gung Ho'.

[Mike Macartney]

My daughter sent me this, she said it may be a useful accessory for our Humberette!

 

 

She must have the same sense of humour as her Dad!

[Mike Macartney]

Firstly, before I add yet more photos and text, I need to apologise to Al and Ray for not answering the questions in their posts. I got a bit carried away with the work on the radiator!

To Al - No need for you to apologise, I know what it's like. As to attempting to rebuild or remake the radiator myself. I have never undertaken a job like this before and doubt that I could do any better a job that 'Winston from underneath the arches in Brixton'. I have had a look to see if I can get to the back of the dents, it is impossible. The outer shell definitely needs to be removed to get to them (more about this in my next post). As to "patience is a virtue", I agree, but, sometimes my patience can run out, especially in the case when you email companies and they don't even bother to reply! It seems to happen quite a lot for me - perhaps its the way I write my emails!?!

 

To Ray - Thanks for all the details on the brush on plating. I would be interested to read what you did to modify or make new 'wands'? I have seen adverts for these type of kits in the Frost catalogue, but have never tried one out. As to the London to Brighton run - I did the run in 2016 in the pouring rain with flooded roads - it was a challenge! Since then my health has got worse, I don't think I could cope with doing the run again. Before I use the Crestmobile again I need to adjust the gearbox clutches and I would like to try and reinstate the original style pull start recoil starter. I am also thinking, if I am not going to do the LB again do I need to keep the Crestmobile and its enclosed trailer???

[Roger Zimmermann]

Radiator repair is not an easy task. If you are not well equipped to perform that job, you may do more harm than good. The previous "restoration" for so much money? A shame!

[R.White]

2 hours ago, Mike Macartney said:

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

To Ray - Thanks for all the details on the brush on plating. I would be interested to read what you did to modify or make new 'wands'? I have seen adverts for these type of kits in the Frost catalogue, but have never tried one out. As to the London to Brighton run - I did the run in 2016 in the pouring rain with flooded roads - it was a challenge! Since then my health has got worse, I don't think I could cope with doing the run again. Before I use the Crestmobile again I need to adjust the gearbox clutches and I would like to try and reinstate the original style pull start recoil starter. I am also thinking, if I am not going to do the LB again do I need to keep the Crestmobile and its enclosed trailer???

 

Mike.  I am sorry to hear your health is so bad.  I do worry when I hear people say they do their own two pack paint at home without the proper equipment.  I will only ever use cellulose for DIY and then always wear a decent mask.  

 

As to the London to Brighton run; I have dreamed of doing this challenge since I was a kid but the prices just keep going up and up.  I never seem to catch up enough to afford one.  I thought I would stand a chance when I sold my Dodge Brothers tourer but it only made £11,000  (H & H classic car auction). I have some savings but then I have the withering criticism her in doors to consider.  Please let me know what you decide to do.  PM me if you want.

 

 

Re the plating kits.  The "wands" that are supplied are simply plastic handled anodes covered in a small piece of foam rubber as shown in my photo.  When the electric charge is on you soak the wand in the solution and wipe over the metal surface.  Constant rubbing action causes the foam rubber to disintegrate so I have taken to making my own wands.  Mr Gateros was very helpful and on hand with any problems.  It was he who suggested I make my own wands.

 

 My only reservation with doing DIY plating is that it doesn't seem to keep it's shine for years on end like a professional job - but then you only get what you pay for I suppose.

 

Ray.

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by R.White (see edit history)

[Mike Macartney]

21 hours ago, Roger Zimmermann said:

Radiator repair is not an easy task. If you are not well equipped to perform that job, you may do more harm than good. The previous "restoration" for so much money? A shame! 

Roger, yes it is such a shame that the radiator was not repaired properly last time. You would think that, with fitting a new core to the radiator, the repairer would have spent a bit more time on the outside and the aesthetics of the soldering. On Friday afternoon I emailed the vintage radiator company with details and photos to ask them if they could give me a 'ball park' price for rebuilding and nickel plating the radiator. I am hoping that they will reply by the end of the week. I can then decide what to do. Meanwhile I would like to have a go at repairing the leak or leaks so that I can run the engine and try the gearbox and differential to see if I need to repair either or both of these. With both previous owners 'no more' the condition of these is unknown. I don't particularly want to strip and inspect these unless I have to.

 

21 hours ago, R.White said:

Mike.  I am sorry to hear your health is so bad.  I do worry when I hear people say they do their own two pack paint at home without the proper equipment.  I will only ever use cellulose for DIY and then always wear a decent mask.

Ray, that is the reason I keep 'harping on' about the importance of wearing a mask etc. Unfortunately, for me it is 'too late'. When I was younger, from the late 60's, I started working on cars evenings and weekends to afford to do motor racing. In the early 70's I left my job in London as an electrical engineer, at a consultants in Knightsbridge, moved to Norfolk and started the Jaymic Accident Repair Centre. Many years of welding, lead loading, rubbing down, 2-pack isocyanate paints, smoking, etc. took there toll of my lungs. I now have very bad COPD that limits what I can do. The medics reckon my 'lung age' is of a 136-year old! Where they manage to find 136-years old's to test as a comparisons - I have no idea!?! Anyway, while I can I still enjoy my work on the old cars and motorcycles, I do what I can.

 

London to Brighton, I to dreamed of doing the L to B, when my father took me to see the start at Hyde Park Corner, in the 1950's, I was probably about 8-years old. I got interested in getting a veteran car when H&H sent me a 'flyer' in the post with a 'private sale offer' of a early Humberette at what I thought was a reasonable price. I enquired about the car and then started looking at adverts. I found the Crestmobile in an advert in Pre War Car https://www.prewarcar.com/ it was for sale in Belgium and had been in a barn unused for about 6-years. I told the guy I was interested, but said I needed to sell some motorcycles first, before I could purchase it. He asked for a list of the motorcycles I had and we agreed on a price plus a couple of my motorcycles. I also asked if they could get it running before I went to see it, which they did. I worked on the Crestmobile for about 6-months to get it ready for that years L to B and took it on the Creepy Crawly rally before the L to B to check the car out with a good long run. It appears that my 1903 Crestmobile is the only one of its type left with this original vertical fin air cooled engine. The other one has had the engine replaced with a De Dion-Bouton engine.  There are lots of photos of my Crestmobile on the internet before it left the UK for Belgium. https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/15348/lot/663/

 

I too was disappointed with the H&H sale of my 1920 Model T centre door saloon. I spent £12k and 6-months work on the car and it was sold for £8k - ouch!

 

As to plating, I have used the Frost kit, that I modified with extra bits, and I found it quite good for the small vintage and veteran motorcycle parts that I was doing at the time. I found that the nickel plating will go dull after a time but polished up again with Solvol Autosol. Thanks again for the info on the wands.

 

I will send you a PM with my details, in case you happen to come over to Norfolk at sometime in the future.

 

Mike

  

[Mike Macartney]

It's about time I caught up with a few more photos of the work on the car.

 

Today is one of those days that I feel very tired and not capable of doing any work on the car, so it is a good time to catch up on my posts.

 

On Friday the coach trimmer rang to say that could I bring the body over on Tuesday morning (tomorrow). If you have been following my posts from the start, you may remember that I had to book the car in last June, as the trimmer was booked up until the end April this year. I was hoping, when I got the Humberette, that I would manage to finish the restoration in 12-months and then get onto finishing the 1899 Perks & Birch motor wheel tricycle. I now think it may take me another 6-months of work to finish the Humberette.

 

 

I thought I had better put the lower half of the sloping front floor in the body, temporally, so the trimmer could make the trim for the footwell sides. This MARKXMAN I find very useful for marking screw position holes through the screw holes in the wood, it sprays paint through the hole and marks the part the other side..

 

 

The lino samples are just as packing to eventually allow the lower piece of lino to run just under this 'foot board'. I may have to replace this board with another one as the body, before I got the car, had been raised about 3/4" to an 1" off the chassis mounting points, for some unknown reason. I remember his son saying to me that his dad didn't like the rear wings (fenders) sticking up as much as they did and spent a long time trying to get the side view of the car looking better. Perhaps this is why he raised the body off the chassis?

 

 

Above is one of the many photos I took of the car before I started any work on it. You can see the soft untreated wood packing that he used to raise the body.

 

 

While sorting out the boxes and tins of bits I looked for more of these ENOTS hose clamps. I am missing one 2" and 4-off 1-5/8" diameter clamps. Luckily, reproduction ones are available, but to my mind a bit expensive for what they are - never mind it's only money! Actually, looking at the photo above, they wouldn't be too difficult to make. Perhaps I should give it a try?

 

 

When I blocked the two lower radiator pipes off, to test the radiator for leaks, I only had a short bit of hose spare so I carefully measured the minimum I needed, wrapped some masking tape round to make sawing it straight easier and cut them off with a hacksaw. I needed the rest of the hose for one of the bottom hoses..

 

 

The aluminium plug I machined up in the lathe.

 

 

This photo is interesting as it shows how the radiator shell was made in three parts and joined with a diagonal line at the top of each side. I suppose when the radiator had been copper plated, then nickel plated and polished the join didn't show.

 

 

On inspecting the radiator to see if I could see how the brass shell was fitted to the rest of the radiator I saw how it had been soldered at the side. It looks to me as if the original bit is still left on and was just cut off when the guy fitted the new core?

 

 

At the sides at the front of the radiator it looks as if the shell is just lipped over with no solder. What about the other side at the bottom of the rad?

 

 

Ummm, it is soldered on this side to. Thinks! If I unsoldered the sides could I then remove the shell by moving it forwards, I could then get to the dents to remove them.

 

 

Bugger - I had forgotten about this filler tube sticking up out of the top of the shell and the two threaded studs - back to square one!

 

 

I successfully managed to solder up the leak from the overflow pipe where it came out of the header tank.

 

 

Fitted the tank again and then found another leak from the bottom of the rad. Not my lucky day!

 

 

Perhaps it is leaking here from one of the bottom hose outlets. Sorry for the 'SPILLING' mistake on the photo!

 

 

I cleaned up the area as best I could with the propane torch and a wire brush. Next I will take out the plug and put some water in the rad in this corner to see if I can locate the exact source of the leak.

 

I now feel a lot better that I have actually achieved SOMETHING today by writing this post. Tomorrow will be a busy day with moving mobile body bench and body to the coach trimmers, luckily they are not too far away.

 

[Mike Macartney]

This morning I had an excellent reply, from MICKTHEDIG to my other post, regarding help and advice on the radiator repairs. I have copied it below as I think it could be a great help to others who want to have a go at soldering or repairing their radiators..

 

Hi,

I worked in a radiator shop for a few years after I left school. I know the repairs look very simple, but they’re only simple for someone with the right gear and knowledge. (We made a lot of money from fixing badly done amateur repairs.) So, if there is a repair shop near you, it would be a good idea to take it there and talk through the problems—they might be able to fix it relatively cheaply.

I could not find a YouTube video that you could follow so I will try to explain what to do.

If you do decide to have a go, you need to get some bar solder. We used 18-inch lengths of a ¼ inch by 1/8 inch solder, not the stuff you use for electronics. For flux, we used a liquid flux, not the paste flux plumbers use. The liquid flux is important because it’s used to cool things down if anything gets too hot and to wash away dirt. 

The torches we used were very controllable, from a very thin pencil flame for fine work like fixing tubes in the core, up to a wide flame to run the solder out of the joint between core and tanks. And they were not that hot.   

The first repair I would do would be the pipe going into the header, as it’s the easiest. First, clean the area with a wire brush, be careful not to hit the tubes in the core.

The next tool you will need is a piece of stiff wire with a flattened end. You could use a bike spoke--cut off the threaded end and flatten the last 1/8 to ¼ inch with a hammer. This tool is used to help melting solder flow, cleaning around the area to be repaired when hot, holding fittings in place when you run solder around them and a multitude of other uses.

With the blow torch add heat, just enough to melt the solder you want to remove and nothing else. Slowly heat the area around where the pipe goes into the header tank, using the wire (bike spoke) to help the solder on its way and to clean out any small bits of paint, rust, etc. The cleaner the repair area, the better.

If anything starts to get too hot, remove the flame and douse with the liquid flux. Use a small paintbrush, but put the flux in an old coffee cup and keep it close by. I would hold the paintbrush and the torch in the same hand so I could hit the repair with the flux instantly if needed.

Once cleaned, tin around the hole in the tank and the outside of the pipe. To tin means to use the smallest amount of solder to make a very thin film over the areas to be joined.

Once the area is tinned, heat the area again, then add the flux and start adding new solder. Use the smallest amount of solder, add flux, then add more solder until you have made the joint. With soldering, you do not need a big lump around the joint. Cool using the flux.  

Rinse with clean water when cold to remove the remaining flux as this can corrode the copper over time.   

To fix the core tubes: first, be careful, because it’s really easy to mess this bit up! Warm the area of the leak, using a pencil flame and as little heat as possible. While heating with the torch, clean the area with wire, add flux, clean with wire again, add more flux. The flux will help wash away any dirt you missed with the wire. If things get out of hand remember to use the flux to cool things down.

 

Add the smallest amount possible of solder to tin the metal, add more flux, and allow the solder to run over the hole, then remove the heat. This all should take 5 – 6 seconds per hole.  Cool, then rinse with fresh water.

 

Pressure test the radiator to just above the working pressure. So, if the cap is 15lbs pressure, test at 17lbs. We did this with a compressor with a regulator, some rubber bungs/stoppers, and a tank of water.  

 

The other way to fix a hole in a core tube or when a tube is too rotten to repair is cut through the tube at the bottom and the top and solder up the holes where the tubes go into the top and bottom tanks.  This is skilled work and I would not recommend doing it unless you were a pro as you can quickly destroy a radiator core if you get this wrong.

 

I would suggest you get a few copper sheets and practice before doing any of this. Drill small holes and try filling them with the least amount of solder possible, drill two holes close together, solder over one hole, then try filling the other hole without making the solder in the first one run. Try joining two pieces together, etc. Once you’re happy with your technique, start on the radiator. [I had six months of someone looking over my shoulder all day long before I was allowed to repair customer’s radiators on my own.]  

 

Finally, the worst thing you can do is get it all too hot, as the solder will run from the nearby joints, making the job much bigger. Also, too much heat can start damaging the copper.

 

Good luck!   

[JV Puleo]

It just occurred to me that the gentleman who ran the radiator shop I used to patronize used a Bunsen Burner as a torch, I presume because the flame was easily adjustable.

[Mike Macartney]

12 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

It just occurred to me that the gentleman who ran the radiator shop I used to patronize used a Bunsen Burner as a torch, I presume because the flame was easily adjustable.

Sounds a good idea. I wonder if it would work with Propane? The last time I used a Bunsen burner was a long time ago when I was at school! I think at that time we may have had 'coal gas' rather than 'natural gas'. I remember the gas board coming round to our house to change modify all the cookers etc. when the gas over.

 

I have just looked up Bunsen burner and propane and this came up https://www.fishersci.co.uk/shop/products/lpg-propane-butane-bunsen-burner/11709777  and this https://www.camlab.co.uk/standard-bunsen-burner-13mm-for-lpg-in-nickel-plated-finish-pv86661.aspx  Interesting.

 

[JV Puleo]

Now I think I'll get one to.

 

j

[Mike Macartney]

How many makes of antique automobiles can you get inside a standard size Ford Transit?!

 

 

Will it fit?

 

 

Yes it does.

Son-in-law Peter says 'Let me out'.

 

 

We made it to Moores Coach Trimmers and Upholsterers shop in Aylsham, Norfolk,  http://www.moorestrim.com

 

(above photo) Paul Moore on the left, Jane on the right.

 

 

I left Jane to discuss with Paul, the type and colour of the leather for the interior, and the hood material.

 

You maybe amused to hear that we made the journey three times, once with the wooden body bench, once with the Humberette and, again to get my notebook that I forgot to pick up off the table next to Jane! Luckily, it wasn't far to go. I didn't get the machinists name, but she made a great cup of tea.

[Mike Macartney]

Now the body is with the coach trimmer I decided to start stripping the engine while I was waiting for some liquid soldering flux to arrive, before I attempted anymore soldering work on the radiator.

 

 

The exhaust was removed ready to prepare and paint at a later date.

 

 

The guy who owned the car for a year before I got the car decided that he didn't like magnetos so he changed to an electronic ignition system with twin coils. Hopefully, I can get the magneto working again if the parts that are missing can be replaced. His pickups are mounted in the alloy section just under the mag cover plate.

 

 

These are the coils he fitted that were hidden by the number plate.

 

 

This shows the extra bit he fitted to the magneto.

 

 

For anybody new to restoration it is important to mark everything up . . . .

 

 

. . . . because down the line you will have forgotten where it goes!

 

 

Next to come off was the carburettor.

 

 

Then the right hand cylinder barrel. Looks like a hole has been drilled here, maybe it was to stop a crack getting bigger in these fragile cast iron pistons?

 

 

I measured the diameter of the piston and the approximate crown height.

 

 

It looks as if the water jacket may have had a repair, between the exhaust port and the alloy coolant outlet.

 

 

I know the deceased owner's son said his dad had had the engine running. It could not have run well with the seal missing as it would have leaked extra air into the mixture!

 

 

Without any seal it was quite a floppy fit. The skirts on these piston are very thin, hence the cloth to protect them from falling against the barrel studs and cracking the skirt.

 

 

This doesn't look good! I don't know what the graunch marks are caused by? The scoring down the bore looks as if it was the gudgeon pin that caused these marks.

 

 

I think I can repair this - well I hope so!

 

 

Another view of the Smiths carb.

 

 

Study these following two photos. This side has collet retainers for the valve stems and . . . .

 

 

. . . . the other barrel has slotted valve stems with retaining 'bars' - strange - I wonder why?

 

 

I've found the engine number.

 

If you have any suggestion or comments I would be pleased to read them. 

 

 

[Mike Macartney]

Me again - I forgot to post these photos.

 

 

 

 

I wonder if this engine had a problem before it was taken of the road in 1926?

[R.White]

I have often needed to resort to aluminium casting repairs and have found Lumiweld low temperature welding rods to be useful.  Perhaps there is a use for the low temperature repair method on your engine?

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lumiweld-10-Rod-Kit-Low-Temp-Aluminuim-Repair/251790178535?hash=item3a9fdd38e7:g:M5kAAMXQNbxRe6gm

 

Ray. 

[JV Puleo]

The slotted valves are almost certainly the originals. I'm not sure the little two-piece collets were even invented in 1914. The different connecting rods is really strange but not as goofy as the electronic ignition. There must be magneto guys in the UK. I think it's actually easier to get a mag fixed today than it was 30 years ago, albeit largely as a result of the interest in old tractors.

Edited May 17, 2019 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[R.White]

I recently replaced the valves and guides in my 1926 Dodge 4 engine.  They have a similar valve stem arrangement  but instead of slots they have holes in which short round pegs can be fitted using a pair of needle nosed pliers.  I have never much liked split collets and find them a bit fiddly.

 

Ray. 

[alsfarms]

Hello Mike,

It appears that you are going to be doing some serious rebuilding of your engine.  Have you checked around to see if any replacement pistons can be re-purposed form another application and fit your V-twin?  Have you looked to see what the bottom end looks like?  I would encourage your to "bite the bullet" and simply do a good rebuild while the car is down then you would be able to enjoy it for a long time with not fears of breakdowns.

Al

[Mike Macartney]

15 hours ago, R.White said:

I have often needed to resort to aluminium casting repairs and have found Lumiweld low temperature welding rods to be useful.  Ray

 

Thanks for the link Ray, I have used this, or a similar product, when I replaced the sections that were missing, on my 1899 Perks & Birch motor wheel tricycle.

 

 

The sections between the spokes and the steel rim, where the two aluminium halves of the wheel clamp to the rim to hold it in place, were missing.

 

 

The aluminium sections that I made were TIG welded in place. As the aluminium was over 100-years old the welding was not perfect and so I used the low temperature aluminium welding rods to tidy up the welds.

 

 

I asked my dentist if she had any old drilling and grinding bits that she used on teeth, she kindly gave me a selection, that I use in a Dremel type tool. I was very pleased with the result. I hope to get back to finishing this machine when I have finished the Humberette.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Mike Macartney
missing words (see edit history)

[Mike Macartney]

10 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

The slotted valves are almost certainly the originals. I'm not sure the little two-piece collets were even invented in 1914. The different connecting rods is really strange but not as goofy as the electronic ignition. There must be magneto guys in the UK. I think it's actually easier to get a mag fixed today than it was 30 years ago, albeit largely as a result of the interest in old tractors.

 

I found this picture below in volume II of the Rankin Kennedy book of the air cooled Humberette engine.

 

 

You can clearly see the slotted valve 'keepers'. Most of the early motorcycles that I have worked on have had these slotted valves. The Radco Vintage Motorcyclists' Workshop book says that you can modify valves by drilling the stems and filing out the slot. I was surprised to read that you can drill a valve stem. I had always assumed that they would be hard.

 

 

As to the electronic ignition, I haven't a clue as to why he did this?! Yes, there are a number of 'magneto guys' in the UK. I have used a company, in the past, in Essex, for the rebuilds on my motorcycle magnetos. I forget the company name, but I have it written down somewhere! That is usually the first thing I have rebuilt on veteran a vintage motorcycles when I first get the machine. I learnt early on, when I bought my 1927 Humber 350cc, I did a rally on it, it stopped working after about 5-miles and wouldn't start again until it had cooled right down. Another 5 miles and the same thing would happen.

[Mike Macartney]

11 hours ago, R.White said:

 I have never much liked split collets and find them a bit fiddly. Ray. 

 

You are not the only one! I often get Jane to put them in for me, she has got smaller hands.