Help with Early 1910's Buick Possible Restore Project

[Guest Tom_Subby]

Hello!

I just joined this forum and am hoping for some help on something.  My friend's father passed away a few years ago and he has  in his old pole barn an old early 1900's Buick that would be so great for restoration....maybe!  Being an automotive engineer at GM, this is too cool!  They are willing to sell it to me but I gotta first come up with a fair price for it.  In order to do that, I have to first identify the car.  I've attached 2 preliminary pictures I just snapped with I first saw it.  Please see the attached.

They said it was a 1908 Buick but based on my web searching thus far, I don't think it is.  Based on what I could find, I'm thinking its a 1913/1914 Touring car.  The engine is a 4cylinder (second pic).  Right now, this is all I have on it but I'm headed there for the holidays and would really like to know what to look for.  One main question is where do I find the VIN and how do I decode it?  Also, what else should I look for?  The condition of the wood was mentioned to me once.  What should it be?  Finally, what is a fair price for this car as is?

I greatly appreciate any feedback on this.  I'm looking forward to possibly acquiring this vehicle and going from there.

Thanks!

Tom

[BUICK RACER]

Hi Tom and welcome! You have come to the right place! I don't think these cars had VINs back then they were identified by the engine number. I expect our pre-war gurus will step in the morning with their thoughts. Where is it located? as that will be a question too!

[Larry Schramm]

Tom,

 

Welcome to the forum.  You have come to the right place for help.

 

As for your car, if you look on the frame rail kind of below the left front head light there should be an oval tag.  On that tag there will be the number.  That is the serial number of the car.  We can tell you year of car by that number.

 

As you know it is a four cylinder car and just a guess is maybe around 1915 from what I see. 

 

The picture of the engine shows that you have a stuck valve on cylinder #3.  Brings up questions on condition of the rest of the engine and car that you would need to be aware of.  My 1915 truck has a similar engine and I have had it out I think three times for repairs.  I drive it as much as I can.

 

Where do you work for GM and what kind of engineering work do you do?  I retired from GM Product Engineering after a career at GM.

 

You say that you are travelling to see the car. Where are you coming from and where is the car?  If it is in SE Michigan there are a number of early Buick devotees that can help.  PM us if you would like some help.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Guest Tom_Subby]

Thanks for the response guys!

Buick Racer, to answer your question, the car is in Minnesota where I grew up.

Larry, I work at Milford Proving Grounds.  I do diesel engine calibration verification work.  Mostly on the Duramax 6.6L engine.  I actually live up by Flint.  So yeah, if there's people in the area, that would be great!  I will look for the serial number when I go home.  I guessed around 1914 so it sounds like I'm in the ballpark.  I was a little concerned when I saw the bent push rod.  I agree, it does bring up the question of the engine condition.  Anything else I should take a close look at?

 

Thanks!

 

[Thriller]

You may want to look up the Gopher State Chapter of the Buick Club of America. By contacting them, you may find someone more familiar with this era of car who may be able to help you look over the car. 

 

These cars are a sheet metal over wood frame body. That's why the condition of the wood is so important.  If the wood is solid, then it is a much simpler project. If wood needs replacing, it's a much bigger project. If you look at the Pre-War Buick forum on the site here, you will be able to see a thread on wood for 25-27 Buicks and that would give an idea of what's involved. 

 

Good luck. If it's far northern MN, I may be able to help out, but I'm not an expert at this era by any stretch. 

 

I have a 2005 Duramax and love it. It's only around 65,000 or so miles. 

 

[dibarlaw]

A quick assessment tells me it is a 1914 B37. Full size 5 passenger touring car. Most of the price comments are in the ball park. The redish color on the body tells me that this was probably a 1950s fix up and run for a while project.  I offered $15,000 for a running /driving one 5 years ago. The sellers wanted $17,500 even though the radiator was junk and needed a total new one made. This one looks to at least have some upholstery left. The one I offered on did not have enough leather left to make a pair of gloves. It also had several bad wheels that needed remade.

1914 B37 comparison to B55 Touring cars

On the other end of the spectrum there was a beautiful example sold by Marty Roth that was offered to me. But way out of my price range.

[Guest Tom_Subby]

Imperial62 - Thanks for the feedback on approximate value.  I would also consider this a 'barn find' in a way.  Condition of it will be a big factor as everyone has said.

 

Thriller - I've been to Winnepeg.  Love Canada.  I grew up in Grand Rapids, MN which is fairly far north yet a ways from there.  Any possible help is greatly appreciated.  I'll have to look at the Gopher section of the Buick club.  I agree, the condition of the wood is going to be critical.  The barn is well sealed but I have no idea how long the car has been there.  I did not know it was a wood frame.  I will take a close look at this next time I see it.

dibarlaw - That's what I was thinking....a 1914!  I saw the same black and white photos you posted in a book.  I do not know what a B37 is.  Is that one of the several models offered that year?  I based my judgement of being a 1914 based on the rounded hood and blended firewall that meets it below the windshield.  Yet is has the lanterns there by windshield which, from my limited research, didn't exist on many later models.  That's good info.

 

Thanks everyone a bunch.  More to come.

[Mark Shaw]

WELCOME Tom!

That is an excellent candidate for preservation or restoration since it is also the first year for the electric starter/generator and qualifies for HCCA National Tours.  

• If it was not stored on jack stands, you should check the wheels for roundness.  
• Check that the doors close easily and do not sag.
• Check the top irons for rust holes below where the wood top bows are inserted.
• Check the bottom of the transmission case for cracks (I had two that were cracked (may be a weak castings).
• Check for excessive rust on any running gear parts, especially springs and shackles.

Spare engine parts are mostly available via this forum from many of us who scrounge Buick parts (I have spares for two of my cars with this drive train).

You might get with Brian Heil & Larry Schramm.  Good friends who live near you and are both avid prewar Buick guys.

Good luck 

Mark

[Larry Schramm]

22 hours ago, Tom_Subby said:

 

Larry, I work at Milford Proving Grounds. 

 

I do diesel engine calibration verification work.  Mostly on the Duramax 6.6L engine.  I actually live up by Flint.  So yeah, if there's people in the area, that would be great!  I will look for the serial number when I go home.  I guessed around 1914 so it sounds like I'm in the ballpark.  I was a little concerned when I saw the bent push rod.  I agree, it does bring up the question of the engine condition.  Anything else I should take a close look at?

 

Thanks!

 

 

AAHHHH, work at the country club.  Spent some time there, but not much.  Mostly in Warren the Tech Center, Old GM Building, Flint, and out in the field.

 

If you get the car back to Michigan let me know and we can get together.

[Brian_Heil]

Look me up on GM People Finder Tom.

 

Welcome!

[Morgan Wright]

The bent pushrod might pose a problem.

[1967 - 1997 Riviera]

On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 9:46 PM, Larry Schramm said:

Tom,

 

Welcome to the forum.  You have come to the right place for help.

 

As for your car, if you look on the frame rail kind of below the left front head light there should be an oval tag.  On that tag there will be the number.  That is the serial number of the car.  We can tell you year of car by that number.

 

As you know it is a four cylinder car and just a guess is maybe around 1915 from what I see. 

 

The picture of the engine shows that you have a stuck valve on cylinder #3.  Brings up questions on condition of the rest of the engine and car that you would need to be aware of.  My 1915 truck has a similar engine and I have had it out I think three times for repairs.  I drive it as much as I can.

 

Where do you work for GM and what kind of engineering work do you do?  I retired from GM Product Engineering after a career at GM.

 

You say that you are travelling to see the car. Where are you coming from and where is the car?  If it is in SE Michigan there are a number of early Buick devotees that can help.  PM us if you would like some help.

 

Mr. Schramm-

 

Being a retired career GM Engineer, did you attend the General Motors Institute or perhaps the University of Michigan?

[Larry Schramm]

5 hours ago, 1967 - 1997 Riviera said:

 

Mr. Schramm-

 

Being a retired career GM Engineer, did you attend the General Motors Institute or perhaps the University of Michigan?

 

University of Michigan.

[Mark Shaw]

Tom,

    Did you buy the Buick???

[Larry Schramm]

He has not bought the car yet.  He is going out to look at it again over Christmas.

[trimacar]

Looks like a good car.  The front top iron is in the wrong position, the back of it needs to move up to the top socket.  Buicks were and are nice cars, this would make a good one, hope he buys and enjoys it!

[Larry Schramm]

When we got together on Friday, (he stopped at my shop near Flint) I encouraged him to buy it.  Being an engineer, he would have a great time getting and keeping it running, plus the brass touring people are a lot of non pretentious people bent on having driving fun from my experience.