steering wheel removal

[trini]

 Hi D. B. friends, I need some help on how to remove the steering wheel of a 1928 Dodge Senior. There is no discernible screws in the center except the horn button and the 2 levers, for advance and throttle. Cannot see anything  under the hub either. I am guessing , the attachment to the rods at the lower end must be marked and removed, and pull the levers strait up but the horn button puzzles me. I want to rewire the horn button  The wood wheel is in excellent shape but loose at the joints.

Thank you for your help.

[Taylormade]

I did a step by step steering wheel post on my restoration thread on my 32 Dodge Brothers DL.  I'll post copies here for you tomorrow.  The procedure should be about the same.  Do you have a Clum rotery switch on the end of your steering box or is your car too old for that feature?

[trini]

This is a 1928 Dodge Brothers Senior. The starter switch is on the dash near and below the steering column. The ignition key assembly is mounted on the back of the coil. The coil is mounted below the dash close to the steering column. The original switch assembly is worn. I removed the assembly completely.  Mounted a new conventional coil on the original bracket  and a separate on/off ignition switch. The starter switch button  is on the floor. I have no Clum key. This car is the last DB made by the Dodge Brothers. From "29 and up are all Chrysler.

The horn button is mounted on the middle of the steering wheel.

[Taylormade]

The reason I asked about the Clum switch is my car has a single lever on the steering wheel than controls the lights via a Clum rotary switch attached to the lever shaft at the bottom of the shaft.  You can just see it in the photo below.

 

 

At any rate, you obviously have to remove whatever is attached to the tubes of your levers - I assume it's advance and timing or throttle.  Everything comes off so the tubes can slide out upward out of the steering shaft.  The wire to the horn will be inside the center tube.  Lots of them have broken off over the years, but if yours is intact, make sure it's disconnected.

Here is my single tube with the Clum switch removed and the horn wire hanging out.

 

 

With the bottom of the tubes bare, you can now pull the tubes (levers attached) out of the steering column.  The levers, horn button and tubes all come out as one unit.  Be sure to cover your interior as the tubes are usually covered with grease and dirt.  Depending on the height of your roof, you may get interference and may have to disconnect the dash brace and loosen the bolts on the steering box to allow the tubes to clear the steering column.  Once out, there should be two screws that hold the lever base to the trim piece around the horn button.  Remove these carefully as the horn button is spring loaded, and you can take off the trim piece and the button.  If you need to remove the wire, it should slide out of the tub, but you may have to remove the clip at the end (if it's still there) to allow the wire to pass through.

 

This is what I used to remove the steering wheel.    The only puller I had was purchased to use on my 48 Plymouth and 50 Dodge.  It had threaded bolts that screwed into threads on the wheel.  Daphne has no such threaded holes so I had to improvise. I made this puller out of my old puller plus some leftover oak scrap I had from my seat construction project and two long threaded bolts.

 

 

 

 

Once I had everything bolted together, I wound down the threaded shaft, hoping the wood wouldn't break.  After a few turns, there was a loud bang.  I thought the wood had gone, but it was the sound of the steering wheel popping loose after 84 years.  No damage to the wheel.  Occasionally my hair-brained ideas actually work!

Edited August 30, 2017 by Taylormade (see edit history)

[keiser31]

Trini's steering column....

[trini]

I removed the advance and throttle attachments from the lower shaft. I was able to pull off the assembly from the top of the steering wheel. 2 tubes. one inside the other. Turn the rod assembly upside down and 2 #6 screws are clearly visible. Remove those screws and the horn button comes off. Since the steering wheel is 4 spokes, I used a 2 prong  standard puller to remove the steering wheel . The shape of the hub being  flat and "square edges"  accommodated the puller easily. I drilled a large indent on a piece of aluminum stock and place it on the shaft to protect the thread from the puller bolt damaging the steering shaft. I also used a little heat on the hub  (steel hub.) It came off quite easily. I took the steering box apart. It carries no oil, just grease. I have never seen a steering box so simple and efeicently designed. The steering  fellows are held to the spokes by dowels. I have to drill the dowels and the fellows comes apart. Thank you  taylormade and keiser31. You are an inspiration.

Cheers and have a nice day.

[keiser31]

Excellent news!

[Spinneyhill]

48 minutes ago, trini said:

 I took the steering box apart. It carries no oil, just grease.

 

It should be a semi-fluid grease that will flow back after being wiped off the worm in a turn. Chassis grease will not flow back and soon you will have no lubrication on the worm. When you keep adding grease, it just pushes it up inside the steering column.

 

Penrite market a steering box lubricant. Others on these fora use Corn Head Grease and there are other 00 semi-fluid greases available. e.g. AMSOIL market one. My friend Tom found some in a squeeze tube (not AMSOIL), available at a Tractor Supply and a Snapper mower dealer.

[broker-len]

spinney Hill                    the rod goes from top to bottom    through the steering box and to the clum switch   there is a felt seal    or thick washer that seals oil from leaking out of the box   if you either take it off or pull the rod out,,,,,,, I have found it not easy to thread the rod past the felt seal   you tend to scrape some of the material out causing it to leak

[Spinneyhill]

1 hour ago, broker-len said:

spinney Hill                    the rod goes from top to bottom    through the steering box and to the clum switch   there is a felt seal    or thick washer that seals oil from leaking out of the box   if you either take it off or pull the rod out,,,,,,, I have found it not easy to thread the rod past the felt seal   you tend to scrape some of the material out causing it to leak

 

I would imagine it was a good fit originally and after being pulled a couple of times it is ready for a new seal? I wouldn't use an inappropriate lubricant just to prevent leakage. I would fix the seal.

 

When I overhauled the Dodge Eight steering box, I had a modern lip seal put in.

[keiser31]

Steering column parts....

[PFitz]

On some, there isn't always room  for a lip seal, or enough meat to machine and fit a lip seal.

 

Trini's gear box end cover looks familiar. It may be sealed like the Gemmer steering boxes of that era that use a simple leather washer as a packing gland seal for gear oil.

 

The recess in the end of the box, that the leather fits into, is tapered toward the switch/hand throttle control rods.  Then there is a cupped washer that goes in after the leather seal.  When the steering box end cover (seen with two bolts), is tightened down, the cupped washer and the tapered seat of the recess squash the leather washer in toward the control shaft for a constant tight seal.

 

Whenever the rod is removed those two bolts should be removed  to take the pressure off so as not to damage the leather.

 

I've made replacement washers and they seal very well.  The ones that leak either need a new leather washer (will last a few life times if done right), or the cupped washer was put in backwards by someone who doesn't understand how packing glands work.

 

A new leather seal can be cut out of  1/8 inch leather, such as harness leather, or an old belt. Cut it for a snug fit, soak it with motor oil, then install it. 

 

If the cupped washer is missing, I made one using a regular washer that would fit into the recess with the correct size center hole to clear the control rods, sitting over the opening of a socket that just supports the outer edge. Then using a ball bearing that is slightly larger than the washer's center hole I pressed the washer into the socket opening until it was lightly dished.  I used my shop press, but so little pressure is needed to dish the washer that a C-clamp, or hitting a board set on top of the ball bearing with a heavy hammer would work.

 

Paul 

Edited September 8, 2017 by PFitz (see edit history)

[trini]

The cup washer is there but the seal just fell apart. I think I will make one with a piece of leather. An alternate could be asbestos rope. They come in different styles. The square type is used as rear main seals in some Continental engines. The loose one like a fishing line is probably suitable. My first choice is regular type lip seal, like Rawhide. About the grease I think an alternative can be white molly grease mixed with some transmission  or engine oil to a nice consistence.   Thank you gentlemen There are so much to learn from your articles.

Cheers.

[PFitz]

I'd recommend using the leather.

 

Asbestos being a natural mineral can eventually wear a groove in the control rod. It should only be used for high temp area seals. Low temp areas used graphite impregnated cotton rope, or twine - waxed for water seals.

 

A modern lip seal will also eventually wear a groove. That's why they make special press-on sleeves for repair of shaft seal contact areas.  

 

But the leather seal won't wear the surface unless a lot of dirt/crud somehow gets into the seal. At most you'll see the contact surface is just shinny. That's why leather was used in so many grease and "fluid grease"  seals for so many decades.  And as long as the leather isn't allowed to dry out, it will constantly conform to the space it's squashed into to  compensate for any wear. But that can take a few life times before it would wear enough to notice.   

 

Paul

Edited September 8, 2017 by PFitz (see edit history)

[trini]

There was a leather seal which fell apart. No damage to the shaft. I will take your advice. Sounds good. Now I have a new problem. I cannot get access to removing the electrical  horn wire at the horn switch. It needs to be changed. All the wires are armour covered and I will like to keep it as original as possible. If it comes to the point where it becomes impossible to open the horn switch I will splice the wire and insulate it well.. Thanks again for all the advice. There is never enough.

[PFitz]

Is there a very small set screw hidden on the side of the button, next to where the wire is attached ? Some makes hold the wire in by tinning the end with solder and then pinching it into it's contact socket with that small set screw. With some, you have to disassemble the button parts further once you have it disconnected from the control tube parts.  

 

As long as the wire slice insulation doesn't cause the wire to jam inside the control tube that will work. It's easy to "peal" off the old armor by unwinding it starting at it's  upper end. Then you'll have a length of the original wire to splice to. If the original rubber insulation has hardened and crumbled (as it often is ), then shrink tubing from an electrical supply store makes a good  new wire covering while only adding the least amount of bulk to interfere with fit. And shrink tubing doesn't have the risk of unwinding on a hot day and jamming the wire inside the control tube.    

 

If you don't have any, you can get new armored wire from Rhode Island Wire Service. http://www.riwire.com/

 

Paul

[ArticiferTom]

I found with mine wire was very hard to pull out . It had all curls bumps from drying out in back and forth motion I guess .  If you can slide a plastic insulator Ie. soda straw or heat shrink up a couple inches . The bottom seams to be where breaks and grounding accurses .  Then test it with VOM and better yet ask a maintenance man friend if can megger it 250v would be plenty .

[trini]

Kieser31 will be posting a picture of the horn button for me. The horn button is sealed. I may be able to use a dremell tool to cut the foldover metal and retrieve the terminal end but I do not think its worth it. As you can see in the picture the wire is quite healthy and there is more than enough room for splice and shrink tube repair. Thank you for the source of the armour cable. Another source is Restoration Supply Company,  15182 Highland Valley Rd., Escondido, CA 92025-2320,

www. RestorationStuff.com  .  The original style terminals , like a ring with the wire wrapped around and soldered can be found at Fiennes Restoration Ltd  ,wwwfiennes.co.uk    Than you very much

[keiser31]

Here you go....

[ArticiferTom]

More pics . I spliced near top soldered and heat shrink .

[trini]

Thank you every one for the interesting discussion. A special thanks  to keiser31 for posting the pictures for me . I am on my way to complete the steering issue.

Cheers and have a nice day.

Harry

[keiser31]

Good luck.