Is this a Buick convertible and if so what is the model and year?

[Kimo]

Hi everyone.  I am here to ask the Buick experts as to whether the car in this photo is a Buick convertible and if so what is the year and model?  This is a photo of my dad around 1945 - he was a squadron commander in the US Army Air Force during WW2 and he always liked cars that were a bit sportier than the average.  I would appreciate any information or just general thoughts as to whether this is a Buick and if so what year and model.  My initial thought was that it might have been a Packard but the guys over on that forum said they thought it looked more like a Buick.  From looking at photos around the internet is possibly it is a Super but I am no expert and I bow to the knowledge of the people here.  Thanks for anything you can tell me!

 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Buick for sure. 1940, I believe.

 

  Ben

[Kimo]

Thanks, Ben.  Any idea on the model?  Is it a Super or something else?

Edited August 19, 2017 by Kimo (see edit history)

[kgreen]

1940 as noted above, either a Super or Roadmaster.  I'm not sure of any differences from the interior except possibly the interior chrome windshield garnish.  Darn great looking car, though.  Got more pics?

[Guest]

A

Edited December 11, 2017 by Guest (see edit history)

[Kimo]

Thanks, guys - you are the best!  I wish I did have more photos of my dad's Buick convertible and him in it, but this is the only one I have.  I also really wish he kept it and passed it along to me  

[JohnD1956]

It would definitely be a 1940 but looking at pictures via Google it's near impossible to tell which model it would be.  From pictures posted it appears all the models would have had the chrome windshield garnish, and the machine turned dash pods.  The upholstery on what's been shared is unreliable in that who knows if someone did a modification when refurbishing an interior?

 

But the one tiny clue may be the small patch of the seat bottom in the picture, which shows flat upholstery.  Being a relatively new car at the time I think it's safe to eliminate the Roadmaster and the Century.  So for me it's between the Special and the  Super. But another unreliable clue is the small patch of floor board over the trans hump.  That appears to show carpet which is split in the middle.  Now I believe the Special would have had a rubber floor mat,  The Super may have had carpets.  This floor mat appears to be for an older car and would have accommodated a floor shifter.  Since the area under the mat is black I' might assume that the underlayment is the black floor mat, thus a Special.

 

It would have been a sharp car no matter the model, and it is too bad it wasn't kept, but back then it was probably just an old car when traded in.

 

Edited August 19, 2017 by JohnD1956 (see edit history)

[Kimo]

Thanks, John, that is really good sleuthing from an old photo.  This photo would have been taken in either 1944 or 1945 so this 1940 Buick would not have been terribly old at the time and perhaps not likely to have been restored after so few years of use, especially since he had been away at the war for much of the time and it would have been left stored in his parents' garage during that time.    

[SBRMD]

While all 1940 Buick had the same three-round-dial layout in front of the driver set into an engine -turned panel, I believe the shape of the panel was different between junior and senior series models.  That dash looks senior series to me.  Most likely a Super.

 

The shape of the driver 's vent window also looks senior series.

Edited August 20, 2017 by SBRMD (see edit history)

[Kimo]

Thanks SBRMD!  You really know these fine autos to spot those clues.  It is sounding more and more certain that this is a 1940 Super convertible.

[Matt Harwood]

Dashboards and vent windows were the same for all series. The Special/Century were the same body and the Super/Roadmaster used the same body--the only differences between series were ahead of the cowl. I thought maybe the flat part at the top of the vent window would lend a clue, but they all appear to be identical. The difference between the Special/Century and Super/Roadmaster was primarily in the trunk lid area, which isn't visible from this view. I don't know that there's enough detail here to make a definitive statement on which series it is. They all would have the engine-turned gauge panels, the woodgrained upper dash, and the chrome garnish moldings. I'm also fairly certain that the flat panel seating surfaces are how all convertibles were built in 1940--the leather was flat while the cloth seats in a closed car would have been pleated. John's ideas about the carpet are good, but I don't see where he's seeing what he's seeing with a shifter opening. It's certainly possible. My guess would be that it's a Special simply because it was the most common by a wide margin. But I have no proof of it just from the photo.

I do like the look on your dad's face, however. You certainly feel like The Man at the wheel of a Buick convertible...

[JohnD1956]

Today at the Yankee Chapter show I discovered a difference between the big and small bodied dashboards.  The one in the subject picture is for a Super or Roadmaster.  The difference is in the area to the right of the inboard gauge, and the speaker grill. 

Note that the big bodied 40's are wider bodies as the running boards were eliminated.  The small bodied 40's still have the running board and the cabin is slightly narrower. In the 40 Super convertible that I saw, it appears to be close to two inches between the inside edge of the gauge and the speaker grill.  In the two 40 Specials that were there, this gap appears to be 1 inch.  It is plainly obvious in a side by side comparison.  I did take some pictures to illustrate the difference.  Just need a few days to upload em.

 

Also it is noted the 40 Super at the show had rubber floor mats and flat seat upholstery. According to the owner there could have been carpet inserts which were glued to the floor area of the rubber mat but not the kick boards.  So if the Roadmaster also has flat seat upholstery in this model then the subject picture is either a Super or a Roadmaster.

[SBRMD]

Just as in the mid 1950's, Buick was very good at styling the junior and senior series cars similarly,  while the cars were in fact quite different.  1940 junior and senior series cars are that way.  JohnD' s pics will show it.

[SBRMD]

One glaring external difference between junior and senior series for 1940, beyond the running board difference,  is the separately visible cowl in the junior series cars, while on the senior series, the trailing edge of the front fender abuts the leading edge of the door,  concealing the cowl as in modern cars ever since.

[Pilgrim65]

John ,

elementary dear Watson! ?

[JohnD1956]

First the Special.

Now the Super.

And here is the approximate angle of the original picture that started this thread.

two more things to note:  It may be possible that the Roadmaster had a different door panel pattern.  The original photo's car matches this Super's door panel.

And, the knob for the wiper switch on top of the dash is different among these two models.  The subject car seems to match yesterday's Super.  It may be possible that the Roadmaster had a chrome plated version, but that will be something to look for at the next show.

[JohnD1956]

10 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

John's ideas about the carpet are good, but I don't see where he's seeing what he's seeing with a shifter opening.

 

You are correct Matt.  Upon closer observation I see now that the gap I thought I saw in the original picture is actually the gap between the gas pedal and the transmission hump.  I cannot get the original picture any clearer for me so I think the original pictured vehicle has carpets.  And if the Super's owner is correct, then there would not be carpet on top of the transmission hump.  Therefore I vote that the original car is a Roadmaster ( and acknowledge that this is based on a lot of assumptions).

Edited August 21, 2017 by JohnD1956 (see edit history)

[Pilgrim65]

Love that red super convertible first one I ve seen 

probably best as I would have been looking for one when I bought last year and would have probably been 20k more than I spent at least.

so like skylarks bit to much bread for my hobby .

Edited August 21, 2017 by Pilgrim65
Mistake (see edit history)

[Kimo]

Thanks even more for all of this analysis and sleuthing!  You guys are the best.  And yes, my dad has a really big grin at the wheel of his Buick convertible.  He was a pretty cocky Captain at the end of the war after having been a squadron commander in the Army Air Force.  Those fly-guys were pretty full of themselves which I believe is to be forgiven when you think of what they had accomplished.

[kgreen]

Nice work John, you just added to my knowledge base.  Thanks

[JohnD1956]

3 hours ago, kgreen said:

Nice work John, you just added to my knowledge base.  Thanks

 

My honor!!!  LOL...