!956 Front disc brakes

[rowan782]

I understand this is done on many older cars.  Anyone know source for conversion parts, approx. cost?

[SpecialEducation]

Don't mind me, I'm just here for the show...

[Beemon]

Here you go, this about sums up cost, where to buy, part numbers, etc. It's the same price to refurbish your old system. Why do you want to swap? For the record, I did it. The only pros is no brake fade, good OEM parts over the counter and you get tapered roller bearings that better handle the load radial tires put on the spindle. The cons are that it's not a 1:1 swap and you will need more pedal pressure to stop the same as drums if use the original master cylinder. With that in mind, I use ball bearings in drums and go up and down hills where compression brakes are prohibited daily, without issue. I also upgraded to Roadmaster front brakes on my 56 Buick, but even with the stock brakes I would only have fade coming off the highway or down a hill only if I really rode them hard, and I mean hard. Around where I live, you have to ride the brakes all the way down so you don't get to the stop light at the bottom going 90MPH. And the hill speed limit is 40MPH. So there's really nothing wrong with the original setup.

 

Edit: I should also note that that list is outdated. The shoes, springs, wheel cylinders and hoses can all be bought over the counter. You really get screwed on the wheel bearings and drums, if they're bad.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Beemon (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

On the 14th trip to the parts counter.

 

What kind of bird makes brake parts?

 

 

A Rube Gold Bird.

Edited July 8, 2017 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

Willwood advertises the disc brake kits.  As I understand, a pretty much bolt-on kit.  I talked to a guy that had done this on a '60s Chevy pickup  I asked about "how it stopped?"  He replied that in general the drum system he took off probably stopped better than the aftermarket disc brakes did, BUT the Willwoods would stop the same "all day long" (added fade resistance, which is what disc brakes are about anyway).  BUT unless you're racing or in hilly terrain, it's that FIRST stop that counts, not the third or fourth one!  If that first one doesn't work right, there might not be a third of fourth one.

 

In general, I like OEM-based conversions with the later model GM single-piston caliper.  BUT due to the architecture of the '56 and prior Buicks, choices in master cylinders and power boosters are limited, which complicates things . . . as Beemon discovered.  Later Buicks with the master cylinder on the firewall don't have these issues, or at least fewer of them.

 

In the street rod aspect of things, there are some options, but not all with work with the unique placement of the brake system parts on a '56 Buick.

 

As I recall, there should be a recent thread about Beemon's "adventures" in upgrading the brakes on his '56?  Lots of side issues, as he discovered, plus some mention of the particular donor vehicles for what he ended up doing.

 

NTX5467

[Beemon]

9 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

As I recall, there should be a recent thread about Beemon's "adventures" in upgrading the brakes on his '56?  Lots of side issues, as he discovered, plus some mention of the particular donor vehicles for what he ended up doing.

 

Recent as in a year and a half ago. These days I'm driving with 56 Buick parts only. The only upgrade on my Century is the addition of Roadmaster front drums and backing plates. The self energizing drums in my experience work much better than a clamp on disc system. The issue with my system was out of round drums, an easy fix. The car is my daily driver up and down big hills and I'm still alive! 

 

If you're serious about the disc swap, then look on ebay for the master cylinder conversion that puts it on the firewall in place of the plenum. It's designed to give you a 6:1 pedal, which is more than enough for discs since they require more pedal to clamp the disc. The stock system is a .5:1 pedal ratio and will give you nothing but a puckered sphincter. 

[NTX5467]

The additional pedal pressure needed for disc brakes is why there typically were no non-power disc brakes on American cars (or many imports either).  Of course, the amount of pedal pressure might also relate to the size and composition of the disc brake frictions (more pad area, less total pressure, and vice versa, possibly).  There was a short-lived non-power disc brake option on the early 2nd Gen Camaros, but only for about one model year.

 

Beemon's reference to "muscle building" would also extend to other lower-body leg muscles, too, I suspect.  Possibly to the forearms, too!

 

As OUR age progresses, even 1.5 years ago can seem like "last week, by comparison.

 

NTX5467

 

[A. Ballard 35R]

Triumph starting with the 1957 TR3 had non-power disc brakes on the front which worked extremely well with only normal pedal pressure required. Granted, a fairly light car at around 2500 pounds but excellent brakes.

[rowan782]

Thanks everyone

[mackensen]

I do not know how old your post is. Speedway Motors list a kit by wildwood #835-14012321 for 41-56 Buicks. I installed the front kit on my 55 have not tested it . Still working on complete 4 wheel system with power . mac

[Buicknutty]

 If you are still reading this thread, here's some info from my experience. I have a '56 Roadmaster that I have driven extensively over the last 40 years. FIY, the large series cars have slightly wider front drums, so you have a bit more surface area for friction. About 3 years I replaced all of the linings with new ones, new manufacture, that is. It stopped terrible, even though everything was done properly, and adjusted as they should be. Most modern replacements have linings that are too hard, and don't develop the friction required to stop well.

 If you do an internet search for Kevlar linings you will find other choices. These are supposed to work much better, even better than the old OEM type.

 Which brings me to the last point, if one can find a set of NOS/OEM linings, these will work quite well. This winter I'm planning to order the Kevlar linings for install on my '56.

 I have a '41 Roadmaster, with narrower drums, no power assist, and it stops way better than the '56 will, but I was able to get the old OEM type of linings for it.

 Hope this helps.

 Keith

[mackensen]

On ‎7‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 7:10 PM, rowan782 said:

I understand this is done on many older cars.  Anyone know source for conversion parts, approx. cost?

read rest of post on breaks the answer is is there

[1956century]

Let me start by saying this: adding power disc brakes to the front of my '56 this summer is the best upgrade I've done to the car.  I can say that it stops as good or better than any car modern car I own.  I kept the stock rear drums.

 

The Scarebird brackets work quite well.  Off the shelf Astro van calipers and Riviera rotors.  I bought all new parts it was fairly cheap all-in.  I bought Timken bearings and they were all USA.

 

You will need to upgrade to a dual master cylinder with a proportioning valve.  Power booster highly recommended.  I used a 1 1/8" bore disc/drum master from a '71-'78 Impala/Electra/Le Sabre/etc. and a CPP disc/drum proportioning valve.  Hanging them off of the firewall is easiest, but will require fabrication, and is not a job for a novice.  

 

To clarify - my manual drum brakes were fully rebuilt and were in excellent working condition.  I would assume the majority of the "difference" is felt by adding power assist, but the entire package works very well together.

[Beemon]

On 11/23/2017 at 11:34 PM, 1956century said:

 

You will need to upgrade to a dual master cylinder with a proportioning valve.

 

This is highly debatable. Dual master cylinders are already hydraulic proportioning valves and they're no safer than a single stage master cylinder. 

[60FlatTop]

On 11/21/2017 at 9:57 PM, Buicknutty said:

Most modern replacements have linings that are too hard, and don't develop the friction required to stop well.

 

I use drum brakes on the cars that came with them. I generally drop off my drums and shoes here: http://www.rochesterclutch.com/

 

They have 3 basic levels of non-asbestos material that we select and they mate the new lining to my drums. They are good guys and will spend the time to get your car right.

 

I am always interested in the reasoning behind reducing the typical 1/4" brakeine to a smaller size and the correct location of the reducing fittings. Little things like that in these "over the counter" swaps and modifications make me feel like I'm choking on a hairball. I would like to see the design.

 

Bernie

[Buicknutty]

 Thanks for the info, Bernie. I'll check them out.

 Keith