'63 & '64 steel wheels

[RivNut]

Can anyone tell me how far back Buick built the wheels that were stock on the '63 and '64 Riviera?  They're the ones with the larger center hole.  I know that there is some difference in the type of bead on some wheels (tube vs. tubeless) and some of the older wheels have a hole for a locating pin (those wheel used lug bolts rather than lug nuts) in the bumps.  

 

I know of a couple of guys who have 63 / 64 cars equipped with Formula Five rally wheels and those guys would like to get back to stock.  It seems that wheels are harder to find than wheel covers.

 

Ed

[Crazy4cruz]

I can't comment on how far back the steel wheels go but there is a guy here in the Sacramento, CA area that may have the 63 and 64 steel wheels if your friends are wanting to buy some.  His name is Tim Sweeley and he runs a business called Rivi Central.  You can find his contact info at http://www.rivicentral.com/ or on FB at https://www.facebook.com/Rivi-Central-185684528117758/.

 

Tim is a great guy to do business with.  I have purchased many items from him over the years.  I just bought 5 steel wheels for my 65 from him earlier this year for under $200 for all 5.

 

Edited May 24, 2017 by Crazy4cruz (see edit history)

[Riviera63]

1 hour ago, Crazy4cruz said:

I can't comment on how far back the steel wheels go but there is a guy here in the Sacramento, CA area that may have the 63 and 64 steel wheels if your friends are wanting to buy some.  His name is Tim Sweeley and he runs a business called Rivi Central.  You can find his contact info at http://www.rivicentral.com/ or on FB at https://www.facebook.com/Rivi-Central-185684528117758/.

 

Tim is a great guy to do business with.  I have purchased many items from him over the years.  I just bought 5 steel wheels for my 65 from him earlier this year for under $200 for all 5.

 

 

Sorry Ed, I don't mean to high jack your thread but, I feel this is important.

 

I would just like to say to people to use caution when buying steel wheels. I learned the hard way when I first got my car. I wanted 5-15X6 steel wheels as  my car had rusty, later model Buick sport wheels. I contacted a Riviera vendor that I thought reputable to purchase two 6 inch steel wheels. He sent me two 5 1/2 inch wheels. I contacted him and told him what he had done. So I purchased 2 more wheels as I figured the return postage across the country wasn't worth it. I would sell them later. The next 2 arrived and they were 5 1/2 inch wheels as well! I contacted him again and he stated that he didn't realize that there were 2 different widths and he didn't want to remove and dismount tires from cars unless he knew it was the correct wheel. I made some measurements on both width rims and figured out a way to tell if the rim was 5 1/2 or 6 inch with the tire on. This time he sent me 2 wheels free of charge that were actually 6 inch wheels. Of the 6 wheels I received I was only able to use 1 of the 6 inch wheels. The other 5 were so bent/out of true that they were not usable for anything other than scrap. Also, some of them were so pitted with rust that even if they had been true you would not have wanted to use them. After all was said and done this particular vendor did not feel he owed me any money back or even an I'm sorry. Needless to say, this person does not get my business anymore unless he is the absolute last resort. I ended up sourcing 12 wheels total from various places to get 5 that I could use. To get my last 2 I ended up having to buy a set of 4 as the person would not break up the set and sold the other 2.

 

To bring a long-winded post to a close. Do not make the mistake I made of trusting that people are selling you a good usable wheel. Make sure you see pictures of the wheels you are buying and make sure that they have checked to see that they are true.

 

Bill

 

 

[XframeFX]

Hmm, '63 and '64 wheels shared with other full sized Buicks, Oldsmobiles and Cadillacs? Those finned aluminum drums go back as far as '61 I believe.

Formula 500 wheels, not original? Buick Road Wheels, we call them rally wheels today.

I recently bought a '64 driveshaft. Maybe the seller still has the wheels off the same car.

My knowledge is that the '63 Riviera only had the 2 hubcap offerings on the same steel wheel.

 

Question on this topic. I've owned my current '63 Riviera for over 25 years. One of the previous Owners mounted Buick Road Wheels from a later Buick (pictured). I believe it was an option on the '64 Riviera.

1. If '64 Rivieras were optioned with road wheels, were they mounted with spacers and longer studs?
2. All '63 and '64 Buicks had left hand thread on the right side of the vehicle?

I have only the 4 wheels on the Riviera but I've heard of a similar aftermarket wheel that would be close enough in appearance to use as a spare. Keystone?

Thanks,

John

[RivNut]

4 hours ago, XframeFX said:

Hmm, '63 and '64 wheels shared with other full sized Buicks, Oldsmobiles and Cadillacs? Those finned aluminum drums go back as far as '61 I believe. - The Buick wheels are different for two reasons, 1) they have bumps between the holes to make room for the hub rivets, and 2) they have 4 slots in them for attaching the cast aluminum wheels.

Formula 500 wheels, not original? Buick Road Wheels, we call them rally wheels today. - Formula Five (not Formula 500) was the Buick name for what we refer to as rally wheels

I recently bought a '64 driveshaft. Maybe the seller still has the wheels off the same car. - Older salvage yards are full of them. I bought a bunch a couple of years ago for $10 per wheel. Not worth the shipping cost and there's no way to check them out before buying them.

My knowledge is that the '63 Riviera only had the 2 hubcap offerings on the same steel wheel. - All three first generation Rivieras had three options. 1st- base wheel cover, no charge. 2nd- wire wheel cover optional at additional cost, 3rd- 63 and 64 had a cast aluminum wheel cover and the 65 finally was available with the Formula Five wheel ( Wildcat was the only model in 64 that could be ordered with Formula Five wheel)

 

Question on this topic. I've owned my current '63 Riviera for over 25 years. One of the previous Owners mounted Buick Road Wheels from a later Buick (pictured). I believe it was an option on the '64 Riviera. - No, see above.  To mount any "rally" wheel, except the 64 Wildcat wheel, on a 63 or 64, you must first knock out the register ring in the back of the wheel.

1. If '64 Rivieras were optioned with road wheels, were they mounted with spacers and longer studs? - Not applicable, see above.  ALL wheel studs were the same length.  In 63 and 64, the mounting studs on the cast covers, not the brake drums (hubs)  were different lengths depending on whether the car was equipped with 5-1/2" or 6" wheels (wheel width was determined by tire size) Different offset on the face side of the wheel.
2. All '63 and '64 Buicks had left hand thread on the right side of the vehicle? No, only in 63

I have only the 4 wheels on the Riviera but I've heard of a similar aftermarket wheel that would be close enough in appearance to use as a spare. Keystone? Just find another one, They're pretty easy to find..

The car pictured is also wearing 66 and later center caps.

Thanks,

John

Respectfully submitted, Ed

Quote

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by RivNut (see edit history)

[XframeFX]

OMG, major learning here. Thank-you, thank-you!

I'll pay closer attention to those wheels rather than just knowing they're not the 4.75" BC from my Chevy days.

Ed, weren't the '65 Riviera GS's available with their own caps in addition to the Formula Five wheels? I see you have the good fortune of owning one!

 

John

[XframeFX]

Oh, the '65 GS wheel cover I've seen was probably the cast aluminum cover.

[1965rivgs]

5 hours ago, XframeFX said:

OMG, major learning here. Thank-you, thank-you!

I'll pay closer attention to those wheels rather than just knowing they're not the 4.75" BC from my Chevy days.

Ed, weren't the '65 Riviera GS's available with their own caps in addition to the Formula Five wheels? I see you have the good fortune of owning one!

 

John

Yes, Ed forgot to include the spinner wheel cover which was standard equipment when ordering the GS option. This wheel cover was also available as a dealer ordered accessory with its own accessory part number.

This spinner wheel cover looks like the standard `65 wheelcover with the `64 cast aluminum spinner attached to it but the hubcap is actually a different stamping than the standard wheel cover.

  Tom Mooney

[XframeFX]

Thanks for your insight on the '65 GS spinner caps Tom.

So my '63 Riviera has had the Formula Five wheels mounted all this time I've had it, 15X6s? I examined the original steel wheels and found another Formula Five wheel. So I have 5 of those rims. Of the 4 original rims, 3 are 15X5.5 and the 4th is a 15X6"! One of them has an aluminum drum on it. I think I'll stick with the Formula Five wheels. Are they all 15X6s?

[XframeFX]

It all comes to me now thanks to Ed's insight. It started with a '64 Riviera for sale in April 2015 where the knowledgeable owner showed me the 2X4 "X" code on the block, explained that hardened exhaust seat inserts are a no-no and how the original formula five wheels came from the factory with wheel spacers, for whatever reason.

Now knowing that the Wildcat was the only '64 model that were available with these wheels, they were not original on that Riviera. They were off a newer Buick as is the case with my '63. Spacers were probably added because the installer didn't know about "knocking out the ring". So, depending on the type of spacers, the wheels were likely centered on its studs.

The asking price on that Riviera was $13,800 Canadian, no rust and I didn't buy it!

[MaineDoc]

So my 64 Riviera has 64 Wildcat wheels and I like the look but they are not perfect. After reading the previous replies it seems like I should try to find a nice set of 65 Formula Five wheels or 64 Wildcat wheels. What else would have the look and fit? The 71 Riviera on page 18 of the July/August issue of the Riview is the type I want.

 

[RivNut]

The 64 Wildcat wheel is a one year item only.  The 65 wheel was used for drum/drum applications until disk brakes became an option when a different profile wheel was introduced.  Other than 64 wheels, you'll have to remove the register ring or use a spacer to compensate for the large hub on your 64.  The 71 and later wheels have a different profile and the offset and back spacing are different.  If the wheels on your car are truly 64 wheels and you have the original al 64 Wildcat center caps, you can probably sell them for a nice chunk of change.

[MaineDoc]

That seems to means I should look for a nice set of 65 Formula Five wheels and then sell my 64 Wildcat wheels.

[RivNut]

If they are true 64 Wildcat wheels (no code # - 2" center hole) - light metallic silver paint in the webs, you could probably find a 64 WIldcat owner who'd be glad to take them off your hands.  The value will increase 2X if you have the Wildcat center caps.

 

The '65 wheels are similar to the '64 wheels but they are painted dark grey in the center and have a register ring (no code #, 2" center hole             )

 

If I were you, I'd look for one of two styles for your '64.  Code #802 or Code#853 -  Black painted webs ( 2-1/8" center hole)  The latter # is for the disk brake wheel.  The Code $895 has too much back spacing to work well on your car.

 

Take a look at this chart and you'll know what I'm referencing.

 

You can only read the code with the tire dismounted; it's on the inside of the wheel stamped close to the center line of the wheel.

 

Here's what the '64 Wildcat center cap looks like.  Just a small push in cap. They don't go around the cone.

 

 

You can have your choice of center caps - the 65 cap is flat, the 66 - 70 cap is a fluted cone.  Don't worry about the center hole.  You can buy repo'd clips for either sized center hole.  You can even buy complete repo'd center caps.  http://www.buickcenters.com/riviera.html

 

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2017 by RivNut (see edit history)

[1965rivgs]

3 hours ago, RivNut said:

If they are true 64 Wildcat wheels (no code # - 2" center hole) - light metallic silver paint in the webs, you could probably find a 64 WIldcat owner who'd be glad to take them off your hands.  The value will increase 2X if you have the Wildcat center caps.

 

The '65 wheels are similar to the '64 wheels but they are painted dark grey in the center and have a register ring (no code #, 2" center hole             )

 

If I were you, I'd look for one of two styles for your '64.  Code #802 or Code#853 -  Black painted webs ( 2-1/8" center hole)  The latter # is for the disk brake wheel.  The Code $895 has too much back spacing to work well on your car.

 

Take a look at this chart and you'll know what I'm referencing.

 

You can only read the code with the tire dismounted; it's on the inside of the wheel stamped close to the center line of the wheel.

 

Here's what the '64 Wildcat center cap looks like.  Just a small push in cap. They don't go around the cone.

 

 

You can have your choice of center caps - the 65 cap is flat, the 66 - 70 cap is a fluted cone.  Don't worry about the center hole.  You can buy repo'd clips for either sized center hole.  You can even buy complete repo'd center caps.  http://www.buickcenters.com/riviera.html

 

 

 

 

I`ve posted this quite a few times previously but I guess I`ll post it AGAIN......the chart posted here is WRONG!!! The 802 stamping started sometime in 1965, most probably early. MANY, MANY correct `65 wheels which I have owned and currently own ARE stamped with the 802 code!

I had a member, who had an opportunity to purchase a beautiful set of wheels for his `65, call me because he read a post on this forum that stated correct `65 wheels do not have a code. I assured him that 802 coded wheels could very well be the correct `65 wheels and he decided to purchase the set based on my assurances....the story had a very happy ending as he finally found an excellent and correct set of wheels for his low mileage `65.

AGAIN...correct `65 wheels may be stamped with the 802 code

  Tom Mooney

[Turbinator]

On 5/24/2017 at 9:12 AM, Riviera63 said:

 

Sorry Ed, I don't mean to high jack your thread but, I feel this is important.

 

I would just like to say to people to use caution when buying steel wheels. I learned the hard way when I first got my car. I wanted 5-15X6 steel wheels as  my car had rusty, later model Buick sport wheels. I contacted a Riviera vendor that I thought reputable to purchase two 6 inch steel wheels. He sent me two 5 1/2 inch wheels. I contacted him and told him what he had done. So I purchased 2 more wheels as I figured the return postage across the country wasn't worth it. I would sell them later. The next 2 arrived and they were 5 1/2 inch wheels as well! I contacted him again and he stated that he didn't realize that there were 2 different widths and he didn't want to remove and dismount tires from cars unless he knew it was the correct wheel. I made some measurements on both width rims and figured out a way to tell if the rim was 5 1/2 or 6 inch with the tire on. This time he sent me 2 wheels free of charge that were actually 6 inch wheels. Of the 6 wheels I received I was only able to use 1 of the 6 inch wheels. The other 5 were so bent/out of true that they were not usable for anything other than scrap. Also, some of them were so pitted with rust that even if they had been true you would not have wanted to use them. After all was said and done this particular vendor did not feel he owed me any money back or even an I'm sorry. Needless to say, this person does not get my business anymore unless he is the absolute last resort. I ended up sourcing 12 wheels total from various places to get 5 that I could use. To get my last 2 I ended up having to buy a set of 4 as the person would not break up the set and sold the other 2.

 

To bring a long-winded post to a close. Do not make the mistake I made of trusting that people are selling you a good usable wheel. Make sure you see pictures of the wheels you are buying and make sure that they have checked to see that they are true.

 

Bill

 

 

Bill, I conduct ( buy and sell a little ) business over the internet for parts for my 63 Riviera. It is true you have to be able to read or understand clearly what you are getting for your money. It is a risk we take when dealing over the internet. About 99%+ is my success rate over many years of buying on th internet.I've been pinched a couple of times on poor transactions, but for the most part Ive come out ahead. Could you have purchased OEM steel wheels from any supplier in the US? It seems there are a number of what appear to be reputable companies selling wheels of all types. BTW, how can you tell if the wheel you have is 5 1/2" or 6" without taking the tire off the wheel?

Red Riviera Bob

[Riviera63]

23 minutes ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Bill, I conduct ( buy and sell a little ) business over the internet for parts for my 63 Riviera. It is true you have to be able to read or understand clearly what you are getting for your money. It is a risk we take when dealing over the internet. About 99%+ is my success rate over many years of buying on th internet.I've been pinched a couple of times on poor transactions, but for the most part Ive come out ahead. Could you have purchased OEM steel wheels from any supplier in the US? It seems there are a number of what appear to be reputable companies selling wheels of all types. BTW, how can you tell if the wheel you have is 5 1/2" or 6" without taking the tire off the wheel?

Red Riviera Bob

 

Bob,

 

The transaction I described was not an internet transaction. This was a transaction conducted with a vendor that I found advertising in the Riview.  This vendor is in the US and you cannot get new steel wheels from any company that I am aware of. When I say steel wheels I am referring to the original black painted wheels that these cars came with originally. If you want these wheels you have to buy original, OEM, used steel wheels. I found out later that this particular vendor has had several complaints from various people for various things. I knew exactly what I wanted, I knew exactly what I expected and I expressed this to the vendor before buying. HE did not understand and HE did not follow through with what was asked of him. 

 

Yes, I found that when you measure from the outside edge of the rim through the center to the other outside edge the 6 inch rim is 1/8' wider than the 5.5 inch rim. The measurements I came up with were: 6 inch-16 5/8" 5.5 inch rim 16 1/2".

 

Bill

[RivNut]

4 hours ago, 1965rivgs said:

I`ve posted this quite a few times previously but I guess I`ll post it AGAIN......the chart posted here is WRONG!!! The 802 stamping started sometime in 1965, most probably early. MANY, MANY correct `65 wheels which I have owned and currently own ARE stamped with the 802 code!

I had a member, who had an opportunity to purchase a beautiful set of wheels for his `65, call me because he read a post on this forum that stated correct `65 wheels do not have a code. I assured him that 802 coded wheels could very well be the correct `65 wheels and he decided to purchase the set based on my assurances....the story had a very happy ending as he finally found an excellent and correct set of wheels for his low mileage `65.

AGAIN...correct `65 wheels may be stamped with the 802 code

  Tom Mooney

I do remember you saying that now.  But that brings up a question.  Did the '65 wheels with the 802 code stamped into them have the smaller 2" center hole rather than the 66 and later 802's which had the 2-1/8" center holes? 

[lrlforfun]

OK Ed: 61 went to stud and lug nut winch killed the holes for the alignment pins. This lasted through 64. 65 to 70 had the small  diameter hole with flange. Pack or box...I mean 5 1/2 or 6". Mitch

Edited August 3, 2017 by lrlforfun (see edit history)

[1965rivgs]

6 hours ago, RivNut said:

I do remember you saying that now.  But that brings up a question.  Did the '65 wheels with the 802 code stamped into them have the smaller 2" center hole rather than the 66 and later 802's which had the 2-1/8" center holes? 

YES! Wheels with the 802 stamp can have either the 2 or 2 1/8th center hole.

[Turbinator]

8 hours ago, Riviera63 said:

 

Bob,

 

The transaction I described was not an internet transaction. This was a transaction conducted with a vendor that I found advertising in the Riview.  This vendor is in the US and you cannot get new steel wheels from any company that I am aware of. When I say steel wheels I am referring to the original black painted wheels that these cars came with originally. If you want these wheels you have to buy original, OEM, used steel wheels. I found out later that this particular vendor has had several complaints from various people for various things. I knew exactly what I wanted, I knew exactly what I expected and I expressed this to the vendor before buying. HE did not understand and HE did not follow through with what was asked of him. 

 

Yes, I found that when you measure from the outside edge of the rim through the center to the other outside edge the 6 inch rim is 1/8' wider than the 5.5 inch rim. The measurements I came up with were: 6 inch-16 5/8" 5.5 inch rim 16 1/2".

 

Bill

Bill, with regard to your transaction from an advertiser in the Review I would say you were unjustly done in. I cannot find other words to convey how I feel about cheaters. When I was a much younger man I would do the wrong things to try and get even with such a cheater.

I can write and say I'd have a hard time not mentioning the cheaters name. Sir, I'm sorry you were cheated.

 

I was about to take the wheel and tire to my tire dealer and have the tire taken off the wheel so I could measure. You saved me time and $$$. Many thanks.

Would happen to know off hand the edition of the emissions and repair manual you borrowed at the library and took photocopies? Amazon has about 5 editions and I'd like to buy the edition you have. Unfortunately, my Red Riviera is having it's intermittent fit again of no left or right signal. I took the car out for a spin yesterday and left the car running with the right signal flashing and the AC running while I got a vanilla frozen custard. After I got the frozen treat I turned to see the right signal went out. On my ride home the signals began to work again. I'm baffled, but I know I have to check and recheck the obvious. Many thanks.

Red Riviera Bob

 

 

[jsgun]

I have a set of 64 Wildcat wheels on my Riv. I have 3 centers, but they're aged pretty badly, to the point the chrome has wore off. The chrome on the wheels themselves is pretty nice. Any ballpark guesses on what the market value is on them? I like them, but I like a lot of other mag wheels even more.

[Turbinator]

On 5/24/2017 at 9:12 AM, Riviera63 said:

 

Sorry Ed, I don't mean to high jack your thread but, I feel this is important.

 

I would just like to say to people to use caution when buying steel wheels. I learned the hard way when I first got my car. I wanted 5-15X6 steel wheels as  my car had rusty, later model Buick sport wheels. I contacted a Riviera vendor that I thought reputable to purchase two 6 inch steel wheels. He sent me two 5 1/2 inch wheels. I contacted him and told him what he had done. So I purchased 2 more wheels as I figured the return postage across the country wasn't worth it. I would sell them later. The next 2 arrived and they were 5 1/2 inch wheels as well! I contacted him again and he stated that he didn't realize that there were 2 different widths and he didn't want to remove and dismount tires from cars unless he knew it was the correct wheel. I made some measurements on both width rims and figured out a way to tell if the rim was 5 1/2 or 6 inch with the tire on. This time he sent me 2 wheels free of charge that were actually 6 inch wheels. Of the 6 wheels I received I was only able to use 1 of the 6 inch wheels. The other 5 were so bent/out of true that they were not usable for anything other than scrap. Also, some of them were so pitted with rust that even if they had been true you would not have wanted to use them. After all was said and done this particular vendor did not feel he owed me any money back or even an I'm sorry. Needless to say, this person does not get my business anymore unless he is the absolute last resort. I ended up sourcing 12 wheels total from various places to get 5 that I could use. To get my last 2 I ended up having to buy a set of 4 as the person would not break up the set and sold the other 2.

 

To bring a long-winded post to a close. Do not make the mistake I made of trusting that people are selling you a good usable wheel. Make sure you see pictures of the wheels you are buying and make sure that they have checked to see that they are true.

 

Bill

 

 

Bill, I got lucky and received 2 good looking 15”x 5 1/2” original wheels. No rust, round, and true. I will say I paid $80.00 for each wheel. I have no beef with I received.Red zRiviera s Bob

[RivNut]

Guys, I hate to say this but you need to find some salvage yard that has some old steel in it and go on a field trip.  In the past three years, I've purchased three 5-1/2" wheels and four 6" wheels for $10 each.  Go have some fun looking at old steel.

 

Ed

[Turbinator]

9 hours ago, RivNut said:

Guys, I hate to say this but you need to find some salvage yard that has some old steel in it and go on a field trip.  In the past three years, I've purchased three 5-1/2" wheels and four 6" wheels for $10 each.  Go have some fun looking at old steel.

 

Ed

Ed, I must say you know your business! It is hard to, very hard to win on every purchase of used car parts. I’m getting a great education spending time on the ROA forum.

Thank again,

Red Riviera Bob

 

 

[Turbinator]

On 10/22/2017 at 10:31 PM, RivNut said:

Guys, I hate to say this but you need to find some salvage yard that has some old steel in it and go on a field trip.  In the past three years, I've purchased three 5-1/2" wheels and four 6" wheels for $10 each.  Go have some fun looking at old steel.

 

Ed

Ed, did the steel wheels you found original Buick Riviera wheels with the 4 holes in the wheel allowing for the cast aluminum rims to bolt through? I must say if you bought the original wheel with the 4 holes  for $10. you did real good, real good.

[RivNut]

Yep.  Those wheels go back quite a ways.  On one wheel, I had to bring it home and take a punch to the "poverty cap" clips that were in the holes.  I think that Buick used existing wheels to mount the cast covers.  The wheels are not exclusive to Rivieras, they were used on all full sized models.  You just have to know that the wheels come with two different sized center holes - those that went through 63 had a larger hole than those from 64 and forward.  Easy to tell the difference without a ruler. 64 and later have a lip on the center hole.  You will need some sort of gauge to tell if it's a 5-1/2" wheel or a 6" wheel