1965 Windshield Installation

[48Super]

What started out as an effort to seal a leaky windshield has now turned into a windshield replacement project. Don't ask me how, it just did. After spending many hours cleaning out the remnants of the original rubber gasket material it occurred to me there is no replacement for it. The original gasket is roughly 1/4" thick and that thickness is necessary to properly locate the windshield. What modern material do the glass installers use in place of the original gasket?  Also, my original windshield was incorrectly centered in the opening, on one side there was a 5/16" gap from the pinch weld on the windshield post and 7/8" gap on the other. The gasket material overlapped the chrome trim on the driver's side so much that it was impossible to remove the trim piece without first removing the windshield. I believe it was that way from the factory. I assume when the windshield is properly centered you should be able to remove the pillar trim without difficulty. I'm planning on having an "real" glass guy install a new windshield but I would definitly appreciate any tips or advice that might be useful for installing the the glass and trim. Thanks.

[alini]

The original glass front and rear is held in by butyl tape.  Very inexpensive and easy to get from most car parts stores.   I used 5/16th if I remember right.   The tape is placed into the frame just inside of the inner edge and the glass is then put into place using some spacers to keep it up from the lower frame.   Then press the glass into the tape to seal it.  You can watch the tape contact the glass to know its sealed.  I then went around and pushed on the tap from the inside to ensure its pressed against the glass.   At no time should the butyl tape contact any trim.   Sounds like someone injected some urethane behind yours to stop the leak

Edited July 12, 2016 by alini (see edit history)

[RivNut]

1 hour ago, 48Super said:

What started out as an effort to seal a leaky windshield has now turned into a windshield replacement project. Don't ask me how, it just did. After spending many hours cleaning out the remnants of the original rubber gasket material it occurred to me there is no replacement for it. The original gasket is roughly 1/4" thick and that thickness is necessary to properly locate the windshield. What modern material do the glass installers use in place of the original gasket?  Also, my original windshield was incorrectly centered in the opening, on one side there was a 5/16" gap from the pinch weld on the windshield post and 7/8" gap on the other. The gasket material overlapped the chrome trim on the driver's side so much that it was impossible to remove the trim piece without first removing the windshield. I believe it was that way from the factory. I assume when the windshield is properly centered you should be able to remove the pillar trim without difficulty. I'm planning on having an "real" glass guy install a new windshield but I would definitly appreciate any tips or advice that might be useful for installing the the glass and trim. Thanks.

Jason Zerbini covers installation of the windshield in his restoration article in the most recent, July/August edition of the Riview.  I think you'll get some good information on products and tips from it.

[Seafoam65]

                   Glass installers will not use butyl tape.......generally they will only use urethane from a caulk gun, which will leave glip glop

all around the glass edge that the stainless trim won't cover. Modern cars that use urethane have black edging built into the glass to cover the glip glop.

Bottom line.......you need to get some 5/16 3M butyl tape and do the job yourself....it is very easy to do......you already removed the old windshield...that was the hard part. One of the things I see on old cars all the time at car shows is horrible  looking windshields due to glip glop oozing out all around the back side of the windshield that ruins the looks of the whole car.

[slosteve]

On ‎7‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 0:16 PM, Seafoam65 said:

                   Glass installers will not use butyl tape....... One of the things I see on old cars all the time at car shows is horrible  looking windshields due to glip glop oozing out all around the back side of the windshield that ruins the looks of the whole car.

 

I would think that if you still wanted to use a glass man you could tell him you want to use the tape. IMHO.

I used butyl tape on my rear window and it still oozed out the edges, showing beyond the stainless trim. It looks nasty and I intend to clean it up but that stuff is NASTY. Sticks to everything. I agree with everyone else in that you've already done the hard stuff. Good Luck.

 

Steve

[JZRIV]

Your local NAPA can get this in a day of they don't have. 3M #08611 You want the 5/16" round. They also make a flat tape.

Kit has setting blocks used at bottom of windshield. I also measured and temporarily glued custom made spacer blocks in on each side to aid in getting it centered left to right. Once you lay it on the sealer there is no turning back. I put the sealer in the pinch weld and leave the backing stuck to it this way you can do a dry run without contacting sealer. You should also paddle in silicone sealer all the way around to fill any gaps between pinch weld and ribbon, and glass and ribbon.

I just saw you will have a pro glass shop install the glass. They might want to use the urethane because it seals so much better than ribbon if they are guaranteeing it. I used urethane on a boat tail rear glass due to the crazy contours. It was a challenge for the inexperienced but came out OK and doesn't leak. Urethane is more forgiving with any deficiencies in sealing surfaces. This is why I do a second step and paddle silicone against the sealer after installation. I think the instructions in kit may even suggest doing that.

If your guy is really a pro, the urethane will come out OK. The key is on these older cars with stainless trim is that the glass needs to be sitting at a certain height for the trim to sit flush. The ribbon sealer does this for you but again if an installer is a pro they can get the height close enough

 

Edited July 13, 2016 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[Seafoam65]

                     You need to make sure that no sealer of any kind comes in contact with the middle of the side of the

edge of the glass where the edge of the laminate on the glass is. If you put any kind of sealer there, about two years later

you will have bubbles in the laminate along the edge that protrudes past the stainless trim where you can see it. When you go

to Car Shows........check for delamination on the edge when you look at the windshields.....it is very common and this is the cause.

They are always talking about this in Hemmings Magazine when they cover car auctions......they'll say something like "It would have been

a No.1 condition car except for the delaminating glass on the windshield."  I fought this on my cars for years till I finally figured out what was causing it. Also, if you use 5/16 butyl tape and put the tape in the right place on the pinch weld, you will NOT have any butyl tape oozing along the edges on the back side. If you use 3/8

butyl tape, it is too thick and will ooze out on you no matter what you do or how careful you are.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Seafoam65 (see edit history)

[JZRIV]

Winston,

I'm curious what is the theory for sealer causing delamination? I've been applying sealer in this area for over 30 years and never had delamination but I have had cars with delamination that had original untouched glass. Perhaps there are other variables?

[48Super]

Thanks everyone for the useful tips and information. From what I can tell, Pilkington Glass appears to be only current supplier for a replacement windshield. Has anyone had recent experience with them? I'm concerned that the fit will be correct. Also, is there a particular brand of sealer recommended for sealing around the outer edges of the glass? Its a real pain that this had to happen now. I had intended to take my car to National Meet, looks like that's not going to happen....

[Seafoam65]

3 hours ago, JZRIV said:

Winston,

I'm curious what is the theory for sealer causing delamination? I've been applying sealer in this area for over 30 years and never had delamination but I have had cars with delamination that had original untouched glass. Perhaps there are other variables?

               Jason, I've always done my own windshields on my old cars and I always replace them if there is even one chip on them because

my cars are 100 point show cars other than my Riviera. Consequently, I've done a whole lot of windshields over the years and I had a constant delamination problem on all my cars until I quit letting sealer touch the edge of the laminate. This has been my own experience

and since  I quit  letting that  happen, I 've had no delamination problems. Personally, I've NEVER had an original windshield delaminate

ever on any car I've ever owned and I've owned about 50 cars over the years. My Riviera has it's 51 year old original windshield with

no delamination problems, although it has some chips in it.

[60FlatTop]

The Pilkington windshield is excellent. I bought mine through Prosource Glass International and will buy from them again.

 

I did it with a friend and our combined experience is over 100 years. We used the butyl tape and thoroughly leak tested it with no need for added sealer.I'd look for another  "glass installer". Well, maybe I wouldn't even look for a so called glass installer. If all they want to do is glue it in with a tube of caulk, ignore them. Buy and extra couple rolls of tape and do it yourself until it turns out right. He wasn't born with a royal decree that pronounced him glass installer. It is probably a job he defaulted into. I am sure you can do better, not if you try, but because you try. Always works for me.

 

Bernie

 

 

 

Oh, and you don't really notice an old windshield until you look through a crystal clear new one. When you do experience one you really get an unstanding of life's little pleasures.

Edited July 14, 2016 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[RivNut]

5 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

The Pilkington windshield is excellent. I bought mine through Prosource Glass International and will buy from them again.

 

I did it with a friend and our combined experience is over 100 years. We used the butyl tape and thoroughly leak tested it with no need for added sealer.I'd look for another  "glass installer". Well, maybe I wouldn't even look for a so called glass installer. If all they want to do is glue it in with a tube of caulk, ignore them. Buy and extra couple rolls of tape and do it yourself until it turns out right. He wasn't born with a royal decree that pronounced him glass installer. It is probably a job he defaulted into. I am sure you can do better, not if you try, but because you try. Always works for me.

 

Bernie

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, and you don't really notice an old windshield until you look through a crystal clear new one. When you do experience one you really get an unstanding of life's little pleasures.

What are the chances that he's a young kid with OJT who's never seen a 50 year old car?

[60FlatTop]

Could be a 50 year old production installer only concerned with a bag of groceries at the end of the day. Works in most cases.

B

[48Super]

I have another question for those of you who have done your own installation. How did you position the butyl tape in the bottom channel in the cowl? That channel is "V" shaped and the original gasket contacted the back face of the glass as well as the bottom edge. Did you put a piece of tape on both sides of the "V"?

[1965rivgs]

Modern glass is installed with urethane because the glass plays a more significant part in the body`s reaction to collision than `60`s era body glass. Modern urethane is much stronger than the old butyl and is as much an adhesive as it is a sealer. Installers will often state to not slam the doors with the windows closed and not drive the car until the urethane sets up completely. It is a safety consideration and therefore a liability consideration for installation companies. BTW, the urethane is more expensive than cheaper materials that low cost installers (like your local junkyard) are probably using so just because it comes in a tube does not mean it is an inferior product.

I can imagine any petro based product seeping into the lamination as possibly having an effect but having said that I have seen many, many,  original delaminated windshields. Years ago I had a complete, NOS set of both flat and curved glass for a `55 Nomad. The windshield was seriously delaminated in spite of having never been installed in a vehicle. Just sold a 24K mile original `85 W-15 Riviera, garage kept from day 1, that was showing slight delamination. My `96 Suburban, which I purchased new but has never seen a night in the garage, has considerable delamination. The list goes on....

  Tom Mooney

[60FlatTop]

 

Here is the full sized picture when I was cleaning the old sealer out of the channel. The paper covered the seats and dash area. I don't remember a significant V anywhere in the perimeter metal. we laid a single strip of tape about 3/8" around the outside perimeter of the glass with no other allowances, other than a steady coordinated "roll" of the windshield from the hood, resting it in the spacer blocks. Once pressed it place and the alignment checked, I let it sit over night and sprayed water from a small bottle inside and out the next day.

I haven't painted and replaced the cowl panel yet. Tomorrow I will get a picture of that area; don't remember anything significant.

Bernie

 

[48Super]

The windshield has been replaced and I'm VERY happy with the results. I purchased the new one from Pilkington Glass.  The appearance and fit were both excellent. The windshield even had the correct original style etchings on it.

 

The installer I used does many vintage cars and he stressed that the urethane adhesive is far superior to the butyl tape as far as strength and sealing ability.  Based on his recommendation, this is what I went with and the results were outstanding. Urethane adhesive, when applied by an experienced person, will give very nice results. This material is really stiff coming out of the tube and it gave a consistent, even squeeze out. It looks as good as the original gasket.

 

I can't believe how much a new windshield seems to change the appearance of the car. It just glistens like a jewel! No more chips, scratches or wiper marks. It is a pleasure to look through.  While I had everything apart, I removed some dings from the moldings and buffed them which also contributes to the appearance improvement. 

Although replacing the windshield is a somewhat painful experience to go through I'm glad I did it.

 

[60FlatTop]

So now you know why I don't let them drag my wiper blades across the dry windshield for the state inspection. Someone thought I was kidding about having the priest come over and sprinkle Holy water on the windshield if they ran the wipers.

Bernie