1960 MGA Restoration

[1957Birdman]

I think the challenge for a lot of these shop owners is to get and retain top-flight help. I had a friend who owned a gas station and 2 bay repair shop for a little over a year. He sold it, partly because it was tough to retain good help. A lot of these places seem to attract “free spirits” who have ability, are productive (when not hung over) and do good work until they tire of that work and move along. The owner is just not going to pay the average parts changer the same as they would someone who can tune a Ferrari.

That doesn’t justify the lack of attention to detail and “shop wear” that Chris has discovered going over his car. He paid for and deserved better than what he got.

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird

[hursst]

Steve, are you bringing the Monte or an Impala?

 

TAKerry, I started at 2500, I will go up to 5000.

 

Back to the MGA.  Spent a good 7 hours in the garage today with the MG.  I tried to tackle the turn signal switch (which the shop did not test).  Currently, the switch will turn on and immediately stop, unless you hold it in place.  It's a strange switch that relies on a leather band on a cylinder and air pressure from that cylinder to create a time-delay that automatically shuts off the turn signal at "x" amount of time.  Why they couldn't have just used a clock spring mechanism is beyond me.  Anyway, wasted about 3 hours trying to get the leather ring pushed out enough to seat and move in the cylinder, but not enough so it jams in the cylinder.  Almost got it working, but it's so finicky and unreliable of a system, I don't think I'll be able to get it working properly.  I'll try again in a day or two.  Also, I discovered my original flasher is not working correctly.  No surprise, since it's 64 years old, but it also wasn't tested by the shop.

 

Spent about 3 more hours wet sanding the hood.  I went down to 1500 grit and got pretty aggressive and this seemed to finally eliminate the scratches that were caused by either 1000 or 1200 grit.  Of course, then I ended up with lots of 1500 scratches, so I have to be very aggressive at each level to make it to the next level.  Previously, I was no where near aggressive enough with the sanding at the finer levels.  I think I have it in good shape at 2500 now, so will need to work on 3000, then I think I'll be in good shape.

 

Spent an additional few hours on my roadster top.  I discovered a lot today.  The top for my MGA was done using all repro fasteners, even after I told them to re-use the originals from my original top that I supplied to them.  The British car shop farmed the top out to an upholsterer.  Fair enough.  The upholsterer told the shop that they were having problems with the hardware and could not guarantee the fit of my original pieces, and that they were even not happy with the ADDITIONAL repro pieces that I supplied, so they bought/supplied more.

 

The truth was, they didn't even bother looking at my original top.  It looked at the top on the car now and noticed that 1) The two snaps that attach to the side curtain on each side were never bothered with 2) The "lift the dot" fasteners that secure the top were put on 180 degrees off, making it very difficult to unsnap the top fasteners.  Two of the repro "lift the dot" fasteners were the generic ones that didn't even have "lift the dot" written on them, they were even cheaper garbage than the other ones 3) I am now in the process of removing every piece of trash they put on that top and replacing them with my originals.  I completed the passenger side so far, and guess what, everything fit perfectly, much better than the repros, of course.  And, of course, because I was angry and careless, I scratched the paint on the back fender trying to remove those garbage lift the dot fasteners.  I'm getting quite good at repairing scratches and chips now, since I've had so many of them, so not too worried about it.  100% my fault, but it wouldn't have happened if they would have done their job properly.  They completely lied to me about the hardware not being good enough or not working, of course.  At this point, I will end up having a good 30 hours of extra work that I have to do that the British car shop simply didn't bother with, or the upholsterer screwed up and lied about.  I'll be talking to the British Car Shop about the upholsterer and their nonsense shortly.

 

 

 

Edited August 27 by hursst (see edit history)

[STEVE POLLARD]

9 minutes ago, hursst said:

Steve, are you bringing the Monte or an Impala?

I'll be bringing the Impala Chris.....

 

[STEVE POLLARD]

17 minutes ago, hursst said:

They completely lied to me about the hardware not being good enough or not working, of course.  At this point, I will end up having a good 30 hours of extra work that I have to do that the British car shop simply didn't bother with, or the upholsterer screwed up and lied about.  I'll be talking to the British Car Shop about the upholsterer and their nonsense shortly.

Unbelievable....so sorry that your going thru this....

[TAKerry]

I feel your frustration. Many years ago I had a 1957 MB 190SL. I took it to my local mechanic to have some small repairs done mechanically. He had a street rod at the time and I thought that he had a soft spot for old cars. He did the first bit of work just fine. Then awhile later I took it back for something and asked if he could fix a couple of small issues I was having. He put his foot down. He was very blunt and told me 'he was not in the car restoration business, and had no desire to do so'. Also said he didnt even like working on old stuff. Told me to never bring the car back to him!

I suppose what Im getting at is that some of this may have been the attitude of the guys in the shop working on your car. Although it may be a restoration shop, perhaps they just figured that they were called in to play clean up and just didnt try very hard.  In the end I have found if you want something done correctly there is only one person you can count on. 

[Randiego]

Chris,

 

The old shops with the old technicians are all going by the wayside.  Fortunately, here in So Cal, we have shops that still put out quality work. 

 

I received my 36 Plymouth P2 Touring Sedan (an original Northern California car) from a collector in Michigan.  He had just had the "soft top" replaced.  This was the last year that Chrysler put the soft top on their cars as the new "turret top" technology had advanced enough to put the stamped steel top into production.   

 

I was washing the car and noticed that water was running down inside of the car ? !   On further investigation, the water was seeping in around the seals at the edge where it met with the steel chanel.  

 

I took it to our local upholstry shop and after looking at the top, he told me that the guy who did this back in Michigan used inferior product and didn't do the sealing strip right.  This was all he could see but it would have to be removed to see anything else that was wrong.  Chris, the headliner in my 36 and the upholstry is all original.  The water running inside would have ruined the original mohair had I not attended to getting it fixed.  

 

But...........finding mechanics and parts, even repro parts, that are not Chinese or from India or Mexico, is no longer an option.  Hopefully in the future, the marketplace may change and we may see product once more made in the USA.  That is my hope anyway.

 

Following your MGAs progression, I feel for your angst and disgust with the shops today.  This would certainly not have been the case 30 or so years ago.  Those professionals have been replaced with "wanna bees".  Of course, this is a generalization as there are good shops and good technicians out there.  One has to do a lot of research, conversation and vetting to find them.  

[hursst]

Lots of successful work accomplished over the last few days.  I completed transferring all the original hardware from my original top to the new repro top.  Of course, it all fits perfectly and the top is at least 80% easier to snap together now.  I also noticed that my repro Moss top has a very different design when it comes to the flaps that surround the side curtain window frames.  The two snaps I have on my original top (Photo 2) cannot be transferred over to the Moss repro top (Photo 1), because the flap architecture is very different.  The flaps on the original are intended to protrude inward in order to snap into the top frame, so the side curtain can tuck over the snapped flap area and tuck into the outer portion of the top, created some type of weather seal.  The Moss top will most likely leave me with a large gap there, not to mention allowing air to get in the gap and flap around the top at speed.  Luckily, I have no intention of driving this car in the rain, but it looks like it will be as rainproof as a screen door when everything is in place.  I'll be testing the side curtains sometime this weekend, so I'll have some photos of how they fit in relation to the Moss top.

 

I repaired the map light.  Problem was a bad ground due to paint on the interior of the dashboard.  I also repaired the turn signal problem.  Problem there were bad wiring connections to the parking lamp and turn signal lamp on the driver's side.  I also had a bad ground on the turn signal indicator lamp on the dashboard, same problem, bad ground due to too much paint on the reverse side of the dashboard.  Very happy about fixing these, as I'm so bad at electrical work.

 

Ordered a used original horn that will need some tweaking, so hoping I can get that to work.  I tried ordering a new horn from Scarborough Faire, as I do not like doing business with Moss anymore.  Scarborough is no longer answering the phone.  When it goes to voicemail, the recording says that since Moss motors got bought out or became some corporate conglomeration that everyone is now trying to use Scarborough for parts and that they are overwhelmed with orders and can't answer phone calls anymore and that they will call customers back when they can.  Well, that was 4 days ago and no call back.  I think after COVID, the car parts business in general has reverted to just putting out low quality garbage just to try to satiate the demand.  No more quality, no more quality control, no more customer service, mostly Chinese-made parts, and high prices.

 

I've also been working on the paint.  I really didn't make it much better.  I've removed some scratches, then created others.  I think I'm going to have to give it a few more polishes and give up for now.  I'm not making much progress, just wasting hours of time with it.  

 

The only things left are replacing he horn, finding/making new acrylic knobs for the side curtain windows, finding/making rubber anti-rattle covers for the side curtain mounting tabs, and maybe making some more door gap adjustments.  Other than that, it will need a good detailing and it's ready for Hershey. 

 

Last, I will have to try to find some time to actually drive the car to at least keep it in good running order over the next month!

[TAKerry]

Glad for you getting things sorted out. Auto electrics are not my strong point. I was told by an expert that most of the problems start with a bad ground. I will always check that first. 

[hursst]

The last week has been terrible for the MGA.  First, I bought a used horn from ebay that was advertised as working.  Of course, it doesn't work.  Have to return it and buy yet another one and hope it works.  No luck on finding any acrylic cubes for the side curtains.  No luck in getting to the side curtain rub strips, either.

 

The main problem is that I tried to drive the car today and the transmission got locked in first gear in a no-man's land between first gear and neutral.  The shifter will not budge.  The only good news is that the transmission is still in neutral, so I can at least roll the car and get it into my trailer if I need to.  This problem is usually indicative of the remote shifter assembly binding up due to excessive wear.  I have the transmission rebuilt, but not the shifter assembly, so that is most likely the problem.  I will have to tear apart the carpeting, open the access panel under the carpet, and remove the shifter assembly.  I have a day available tomorrow, so will spend all day trying to fix this tomorrow.  After that, no time for at least a week.  With any luck, it will be the shifter and maybe I can get some new parts for it and fix it before Hershey, but right now, bringing the MGA to Hershey is in real jeopardy for me.  I don't know if I'll have enough time to get it fixed.  If it's not the shifter assembly and the problem is in the transmission, this may require removing the engine to get the transmission out, which will cost me thousands and thousands of more dollars, not to mention the damage that will be done to the car in removing all of that, as damage will be inevitable.  If it comes to that, I would most likely take it back to the British car shop to have them do it.  I don't have the time to do it myself, plus I'm really exhausted of working on this car.  I really need a break from restoration work for a little while.

[keiser31]

Can you get some thick plexiglass and cut some corners off for cubes for the side windows?

[hursst]

keiser, I could do that, but it's a matter of finding plexiglass that is thick enough.  The local hardware stores don't have it, so I have to expand my search.  Not going to bother with that until I can get the shifter problem fixed. 

[TAKerry]

Sorry to hear of that problem. Hopefully it will work out being the lesser of evils. I know your frustration of being oh so close then something like this happening. It will def be a welcome break from working on stuff once you have this car dialed in and can enjoy. I like working on this old stuff most of the time. Every now and then a problem pops up and I have to sit back and check my sanity. I think we have all had those days. Keep the spirits up and you will persevere.

[hursst]

TAKerry,

   You're right, it all gets fixed in the end, you just have to find your way through it.  So, spend about 3 hours tearing into the shifter assembly.  Was able to remove it and found nothing wrong.  I could now see the exposed gear change socket in the transmission.  I put a socket extension in the hole, which fit perfectly, but it wouldn't budge.  I then used a plastic hammer to try to move it and I was able to move it fairly easily.  I put the shifter assembly back on and now the shifter seems to work just fine.  Finally took it for a real test drive.  Went about 10 miles and had no problems...until I got to the gas station.  The "Lift" tab on the fuel filler cap broke off, so no gas.  Luckily, I had plenty left.  I got home and welded the tab back together.  It sort of works, but I have a replacement on order.  

 

Overall, very good news that I only had to waste about 3 hours and $0, rather than 3 weeks and thousands of dollars.  Let's just hope it doesn't happen again.

 

Now, back to more detailing, wet sanding, and polishing as I continue to prep for Hershey.

[TAKerry]

Glad to hear the news, sorry about the gas tab. My first shakedown run with my 77 TA the brakes started fading badly. By the time I got home from a short jaunt there was nothing. I had a shop do all of the mechanical work on that car so first thing the next morning I had it towed to their shop. Found out a fitting needed a bit of tightening. I was of course upset and fearing the worse. 

[hursst]

TAKerry, nothing is more important than shakedowns.  I had a similar problem to your brake issue above.  I did leave most of the suspension bolts loose for a final torquing when I took it to the shop for the shakedown, but they found that I had left quite a few other bolts too loose on the car, so it was good that they were able to catch these mistakes.

 

As far as my next update, I forgot to mention that the valvetrain on the MGA was extremely loud during my first real test drive, so I suspect that things have loosened up and fallen out of adjustment since the engine was first rebuilt.  Not sure if the shop did much to adjust the valves.  I'm going to try to adjust them myself this morning and see if I can get them dialed in and reduce the noise.

[Luv2Wrench]

Hey Chris, not to give you yet another thing to worry about, but you might want to throw a dial indicator on the valve rockers and make sure they're all going up and down the same amount.  All intake valves should have the same travel as well as all exhaust.   If that's not the case that lifter noise is probably from the camshaft failing and rounding over.  I ran in to this on the MG TD and had to replace the camshaft and lifters.  I first noticed it after I set the lash for all valves I noticed that some of the adjustments were way more than others.  They're not going to be the same, but they'll be fairly close.

[hursst]

I'm going to get it to Hershey, have the two other MGA guys that usually show up take a listen and see what they think, then I think I'll go back to the British car shop and have them review it.  I certainly don't need a wiped cam.  I know I should expect some valvetrain noise, but it seems excessive to me.  Better safe than sorry.  Not going to miss Hershey, so won't go back to the shop beforehand, no way they would have it back to me in time.