Collector Car Auction Buying and Selling

[60FlatTop]

The big car auctions seem to be a popular topic on this forum. And since WE are the real car guys I am curious about the experiences the everyday guy buying or selling a car under $50,000 has had.

 

I have never sold a car at auction. Somewhere around 2000 I went to a small dealership near Ithaca, NY where the owner had collected a lot of 1930 and '40's Cadillacs. There was a 1977 LeSabre there that wasn't getting bids. I brought it home for my wife with something like a $600 bid. She was as thrilled as the other bidders.... well, she actually said it was ugly and she hated it. I put it in the front yard and got 1,000 bucks for it.

 

There's my whole history on the auction side; bought a cheap lizard and sold it to a guy down the street. I did make a few bucks.

 

Anyone sold that treasure they owned for 20 years and made a good score?

Bernie

[smithbrother]

Shame, shame on YOU, flipping a Buick, Lol.  Love it......

 

I GOOGLED pictures of that, it is/was ugly, hehe

 

Dale in Indy

[D Yaros]

I attended a Mecum auction once.  It was so long ago that the Chicago auction did not exist.  This IL auction was held in Belvidere, IL!

 

I had set a budget of $16k.  A car hit the block that had potential.  Others thought so too, as the bidding was fast and furious.  The Mrs. said may Ibid.  I said sure, just  don't exceed our $16K max.  She raised her hand the auctioneer recognized her bid at $20,000!

 

Luckily someone else bid  $22K and  took us off the hook!

[John_S_in_Penna]

I inquired into a major auto auction house

for a widow who had a custom-bodied Classic,

a recent AACA Grand National winner.  I didn't

tell the auction house about the specific car, but

I gathered some information for her.

 

I found the auction house arrogant:  They said they

would take only cars which they ACCEPTED;  they

determined when it would appear, based on its desirability.

Also, their auction fees, though typical, were quite high.

I thought to myself, NEVER!  She ended up selling the car privately.

 

Suppose you're selling Bernie's hypothetical $50,000 car at auction.

They have a buyer's premium often of 10%, so if a car is worth

$50,000, a bidder should bid no more than about $45,000.

Then, the auction company will take another 10% off as a seller's fee,

meaning the seller gets about $41,000 for his $50,000 car.

Did the auction company spend enough man-hours on that

particular car to earn $9000 or $10,000?  I think not.

 

The way most auctions are currently done, I plan never to participate.

Buying from an honest, dedicated long-time owner, who can tell you

all about the car and who wants to see it go to a good home, is the way for me.

Edited February 3, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[smithbrother]

Anyone that doesn't believe in auctions, shouldn't be involved.  

 

Hundreds of thousands cars are sold PRIVATE each year, it's your call on how you sell/buy.

 

What auctions do is offer lots of choices, all at one STOP SHOPPING.

 

Dale in Indy

[auburnseeker]

I inquired into a major auto auction house

for a widow who had a custom-bodied Classic,

a recent AACA Grand National winner.  I didn't

tell the auction house about the specific car, but

I gathered some information for her.

 

I found the auction house arrogant:  They said they

would take only cars which they ACCEPTED;  they

determined when it would appear, based on its desirability.

Also, their auction fees, though typical, were quite high.

I thought to myself, NEVER!  She ended up selling the car privately.

 

Suppose you're selling Bernie's hypothetical $50,000 car at auction.

They have a buyer's premium often of 10%, so if a car is worth

$50,000, a bidder should bid no more than about $45,000.

Then, the auction company will take another 10% off as a seller's fee,

meaning the seller gets about $41,000 for his $50,000 car.

Did the auction company spend enough man-hours on that

particular car to earn $9000 or $10,000?  I think not.

 

The way most auctions are currently done, I plan never to participate.

Buying from an honest, dedicated long-time owner, who can tell you

all about the car and who wants to see it go to a good home, is the way for me.

I had a big block 68 vette that I was thinking of sending to auction but I had the same thought you did.  If it doesn't sell, you now need to get all your fees and shipping expense out of the car just to be where you were before you sent it to auction.  Now if you couldn't get 20,000 for it before on your own you definitely aren't going to get say 24,000 when you get it back home,  So now if it sells for 20,000  you really only got 16,000.  You probably could have got 18,000  alot faster and been 2000 less in the hole.

Edited February 3, 2016 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

Anyone that doesn't believe in auctions, shouldn't be involved.  

Hundreds of thousands cars are sold PRIVATE each year, it's your call on how you sell/buy.

What auctions do is offer lots of choices, all at one STOP SHOPPING.

 

Auctions don't have to be objectionable.

For some time, I've thought that the A.A.C.A. should

conduct its OWN antique car auction.  It could be

on the up-and-up, with low fees and total honesty.

Many details would need to be worked out, of course,

but it could raise some good money for the club.

Edited February 4, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[nick8086]

Sometime you can get a deal... Not sure if this is the car... It sold for 14K.. with 60K in the restore..

Edited February 4, 2016 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[Steve Moskowitz]

The fact's are that buying private does not always mean you get a good deal nor does it mean that the seller is totally honest.  Then the fun begins.  Auctions have their pluses.  They spend a lot of money on marketing, they do a lot of behind the scenes selling to prospective buyers and if the auction company is reputable they do their best to iron out disputes.

 

A very well known auction company sold a high dollar car to an AACA member.  Upon close inspection it turned out that the restorer sold a blatantly bad car with an intent to defraud his customer.  The issues with the car were of the hidden variety for the most part.  I was asked to help the new owner find a solution.  Upon calling the owner of the auction it took a nano-second for him to say if it is a bad car have the man contact us and we will take the car back.  He did and they did. The man then made a very generous donation to our library in thanks.

 

While it may be easy to point out the times where a car gets less than a person can sell it for on his own (if they can find a buyer) how come we do not mention all the cars sold above and sometimes way above what the owner expects?  Just saw today's 2/4 Hemmings online...Riviera sells for DOUBLE the pre auction estimates. Bet that seller is happy!

 

 

John, I have had a lesson in auction financials and quite frankly no thanks.  AACA isn't interested in owning or managing an auction company.  The costs associated with doing an auction correctly are significant and unless the next executive director wants to take that project on it has no support from me.  Despite the fees some auctions lose money! 

 

So, we all have our choices at some point,  Auction, eBay, private sale, etc.  It is a diverse world with many different circumstances so one size does not fit all. 

[60FlatTop]

It is interesting that besides me buying a cheap lizard at a small collector car auction, none of the replies relate to the actual experience of personally buying or selling a car at auction.

 

Come on, somebody must have. Otherwise an opinion is going to start forming.

Bernie

[Matt Harwood]

My experience probably isn't typical, but I have bought and sold at auction several times. Not many, but occasionally. I go to several auctions a year with the idea to buy cars to re-sell, so I look for below-market pricing or interesting machinery that I can't get elsewhere. I'll also admit that I buy what I like in case I'm stuck with it for a while, at least I can enjoy it. This probably makes me different from a lot of enthusiasts who simply buy because they want a particular car, but it illuminates the fact that there are bargains at every auction if you're paying attention. I don't consider myself a rich fool with more money than brains, I have no desire to be on TV, and I don't drink, yet I still buy at auction when the price is right for me. I do my homework ahead of time, I identify the car(s) I want, and I inspect them as carefully as possible given the conditions of an auction environment (no test drive, no starting the engine, no checking accessories, no putting it on a lift). There's a bit of risk there, which is why I don't do it often, but I also trust my instincts as I'm sure many of you do.

 

Selling at auction? Always a pleasure. I don't like doing it because I can't control the end result and I have to share my cut with the auction house, but it's effective. I will also admit that auctions are where I send my turds, and I guarantee I'm not the only one who does that. If I'm not willing to put my name on it, to auction it goes for all the reasons I mentioned above that were demerits as a buyer. Caveat emptor.

 

There seems to be a lot of resentment towards auctions (and people who make money selling collector cars), and I don't understand that. I know it's a hobby, but the Lionel train dealer gets paid, too. Auctions are outrageously expensive to promote properly and the end result is far from certain. It's more than just setting up a tent and having a guy start jabbering. There are small auctions where you can buy pure junk, and their overhead is probably pretty reasonable. If you like junk, maybe those auctions are right and you won't hate them because they don't make a lot of money. But if you want quality cars, and you expect the auction house to provide some kind of security that the cars have been vetted, or if you're a seller and you want top dollar, well, then paying to play is what it takes. You can't have it both ways. To some the fees seem outrageous (and yes, I think the "buyer's premium" is crap) but you can't argue the efficacy of Barrett-Jackson with their no-reserve policy. The cars get sold and because they are the biggest and get the most cars, well, the buyers with the money show up. You're paying for that reputation and that kind of pull as well. RM vets the cars very carefully, so you are pretty much assured of quality. Mecum? Enjoy your high-volume trash unless you're really on top of your game.

 

You guys make the mistake of thinking that the AACA and its members represents a majority of the hobby. We don't. There are millions of enthusiasts and millions of cars. Being unhappy that people like (and are willing to pay for) things that aren't to your particular taste is kind of crazy, no? You don't hear the guys on the hot rod message boards talking about how stupid we are for buying stock Model As...