How many are left

[alini]

So according to the ROA website, there were 28467 1965 NON GS Riverias built.  Anyone care to guess, or know, how many are on the road today??

[Pat Curran]

And of those, how many of the 454 non-GS's with the dual quad engine are left?  

[Rivman]

And of those, how many of the 454 non-GS's with the dual quad engine are left?  

I believe there are a few members here that have those, I have one, a '65 GS, and another early '65 with the 401. Not sure but since the DMV is a state run thing I think it would be very difficult to track down total numbers nation wide? 

[lrlforfun]

OK Chris: I have asked the question on this forum many times.  The question, again, is, "would anyone know if there is a formula statisticians use that may shed some light on how many of a particular vehicle survive"?  So far, nothing.

 

I'd need as many sources as possible to gather data and that is still inconclusive.  DMV data bases from every country would give a certain factor to the equation, a poll perhaps like Harris or Gallup, and the universal guess as to what % of a particular year or time period.   There is always the un-calculateable too. This includes vehicles laying in a field or ravine as well as vehicles who's records have long dropped off any data base and vehicles that have gotten da squish a very long time ago.

 

I'm going to guess that due to these car's popularity since new there might be 15% survival.

 

It's just a number i drew out of my hat.  Can anyone do better?   Mitch

[1965rivgs]

Mitch,

  I have seen attrition rates but dont remember what the source was or what time frame those numbers were relevant to. I`m sure the survival rate for high end cars is longer than economy cars and I would suspect the first gen Rivs are higher than most of their peers due to the recognition they received when new as a "classic" design, even when new. One thing is for sure, they are FAR from "rare" so why does it matter? Even the GS cars are plentiful.

  Tom

[Guest onedesertdog]

^{Well, I have one of the 454 Non-GS, numbers matching...........I'm still happy. GS or not.....}

 

^{Hope everyone had a safe, and Merry Christmas.......}

 

  ^Buddy

[gord14080]

I don"t have a GS or one of the 454 2x4 425's but ,mine is a single  4 BRL 425 and I Love it .All

  # match!

Come on single carb guys step up and be counted

Complements of the season.all the best Gord.

 

 

[RivNut]

I don"t have a GS or one of the 454 2x4 425's but ,mine is a single  4 BRL 425 and I Love it .All

  # match!

Come on single carb guys step up and be counted

Complements of the season.all the best Gord.

Fewer single four barrel 425's built in '65 than there were Super Wildcats (dual four barrel.)  2311 vs. 3808. 

 

401's were the standard engine in '65, the 425 engines were options.

 

ALL Rivieras built in '64 and '66 came standard with a 425 - single or dual four barrel carbs

Edited December 28, 2015 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Rivman]

I don"t have a GS or one of the 454 2x4 425's but ,mine is a single  4 BRL 425 and I Love it .All

  # match!

Come on single carb guys step up and be counted

Complements of the season.all the best Gord.

 

 

Fewer single four barrel 425's built in '65 than there were Super Wildcats (dual four barrel.)  2311 vs. 3808. 

 

401's were the standard engine in '65, the 425 engines were options.

 

ALL Rivieras built in '64 and '66 came standard with a 425 - single or dual four barrel carbs

I was going to mention the same thing Ed did, fewer 425s than GSs in '65 for sure! I looked at one several years ago that had lots of options, but it was in such rough shape I didn't feel I could mess with it.

[1965rivgs]

Original question was how many non GS cars are still around. Not to disparage any `65 Riv owners, but the answer is plenty....and GS cars if that is a `65 that one is seeking. Either version is not rare and are plentiful in the collector car marketplace.

  Tom

[Guest skilly65]

My son bought home a '65 Riviera 2 door coupe to NZ nearly 3 years back. He bought it in Cape Coral, drove it to Miami, filled it with all the parts for a restoration and shipped it here to Auckland. The car was built in Flint, Michigan.

 

Once I pulled the heads off (Dad does the engines!) the bores looked a bit big for the 401 Nailhead that he had been told it was. Turns out it was a 425 Nailhead, with some deeply scored cylinder bores, two pirate pistons (6 were Buick un-bored originals and 2 were unidentifiable oddballs), and all the rod numbers/pistons had been thrown back in by a blind mechanic. Rods 2 & 5 on journal # 4 etc. The whole front damper assembly had been repainted Buick blue, then jammed through the front oil seal, paint & all.

 

We have had to bore the cylinders to .040" oversize to eliminate the bore scores (it looks like something like stones or plug electrodes had been dropped through the plug holes) and fitted new Egge pistons. Rods have been re-sized - crank journals all ground .020" undersize (they had been ground to 0.010" under in the US, but were tapered!) and all the main bearings were deeply scored on arrival in NZ. New camshaft (standard spec), lifters, & bearings, new oil & water pumps, timing cover, dizzy, exhausts, engine mounts, etc, etc. And a bit of chrome to go on top (air cleaner, rocker covers & valley cover). We had ordered a new 600 cfm Edelbrock carby, thinking the engine was 401 cu inch, but now have to get a 750 or 800 cfm carb.

Can anyone advise whether the Thunder AVS or the Performer is the better model to have on this engine?

 

Total strip down of the body - all new floor panels throughout - rust cut out of the front ventilation ducts - body bought back to perfect condition & primed - chassis separated from body and now looks a million dollars with all new brake & fuel lines, etc - disc brake conversion done - new steering box & linkages - new fuel tank - all electrical looms replaced & blue tooth/digital radio etc installed, but behind original facias so all is hidden. My son has done everything except the engine & transmission.

 

The numbers don't match - from the volumes of paperwork & manuals supplied with the car, it looks like the engine swap was done between January 6th 2004 and January 7th 2005 by an owner in Michigan - this is where the engine number was changed on the title papers. The 425 has all the correct ID markings for that engine size, and the trans is a '65 LX SP400, with a positraction diff fitted in the axle. So, did all the running gear come from a '65 Skylark or similar? 

 

So, all the work is nearly done. The mileage on the clock is 93,000. I just have to finish the engine rebuild, but have encountered a minor snag. The valve seats have been previously recut so deep that our (new) valve stems are all between 0.100 and 0.120" above the 1.54" as stated in the Buick rebuild manual (and the new valves are the correct length according to the book). As we are using Best gaskets composite head joints that are about 0.045 thick when compressed rather than the original 0.015" steel gaskets, the problem reduces a little. From experience, could anyone advise me whether adjustable pushrods would be a good solution to eliminating the rest of the over-height valve stem problem?  I don't want to grind down the valve stems unless I really have to.

 

Cheers,

 

Tony

Auckland, NZ

 

Sorry - didn't intend to write a book on the subject!!

[Seafoam65]

                Tony.......you need to start a new post regarding your valve problem......this post is about rarity of 65  Rivieras.

By the way, welcome to the forum Tony. I'd like to comment on what is being said regarding rarity of 65  Rivieras. Since it took

me five years to find a low mileage all original unmolested car to buy , I would say that nice examples of unmodified nice original

65's are rarer than hen's teeth. Yes, you can find a rusted out beater that needs everything in about ten minutes of looking, but nice

non GS 65's are few and far between. I can open up any copy of Hemmings and in five minutes find about twenty nice  65 Corvettes

to buy, 10 nice 65 Chevelles to buy, etc. Many months there isn't even one 65 Riviera for sale in Hemmings, nice or otherwise. At a car

show in Texas, you are about as likely to see a 65 Riviera as you are the Loch Ness Monster, unless I happen to be attending it, so YES, I think they are rare as hell.  I would guess the number of 65 non GS Rivieras out there is somewhere around 10 per cent of

production, with 95 percent of those being beaters or rusty parts cars or highly modified restored cars.  Using that formula, I think that as far as very nice stock examples left, there are less than 300 out there, which qualifies as rare all day long. I do see a large number

of 65 GS Rivieras that are very nice cars for sale all the time, as many of them have been cherished since new for their rarity and have

been the subject of frame off restorations.  Nice GS models for sale are much more plentiful than nice regular 65 Rivieras. In the case of my car, the guy I bought it from looked for several years to find the car

and was only selling it because he found out he had terminal cancer. Restored GS Rivieras are available for sale because they are bringing big bucks now, but if a guy restores a non GS 65 he is going to be way

upside down on the car and would not sell it unless he was forced to by illness or loss of job etc. People

restore non GS Rivieras because they want a nice one to keep, so it is hard to pry a nice restored one from anyone's fingers.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Seafoam65 (see edit history)

[devildog93]

I have no idea how many are nationwide, but i know in my neck of the woods they didn't start springing up until the last few years. Either someone found some cars hiding in a barn or they were imports. I honestly don't remember seeing one from 1980 to 2005, ever...in person at least. In the last few years i have seen 3.

 

-Jeff

[Guest skilly65]

Hi Winston,

 

Thanks for the info regarding the cars. I have only ever seen 1 other '65 Riviera advertised in NZ, but the NZ Classic Car magazine recently advised that 3 more 1965 Rivieras were imported here for restoration last year, so maybe we have 5 in the country.

 

We are getting a bit of a reputation for restoring old cars and aeroplanes down here - send down the Spruce Goose and someone will get it airborne for you!  .

A number of US rare/classic aircraft owners send their planes here for restoration/rebuild.

 

I have started a new thread regarding the engine queries. Many thanks.

 

Cheers

 

TonyS

Auckland