1985 Trans Am!

[Guest Xeon]

CD manuals are a pain to use and the details sometimes suck. $25 shipped sounds like a good deal to me for a book like this in good condition. To just say it's way better than a Haynes is an understatement.

 

Ordered, Thanks!

 

Xeon, I would really encourage you to spend some serious time with a calculator and catalogs and Craigslist, making a serious assessment of what you have, what you need, and what the finished product is likely to be worth...before spending a bunch of your money.  What I'm seeing and hearing leads me to believe you might shock yourself if you honestly assess the costs of everything.  Remember, nice examples of Gen 3 F-bodies can routinely be bought in the $3-5K range.  Depending upon your standards for a "daily driver" you could easily get more than that into your car that you got for free.

 

I've spent a lot of time around 60s muscle cars.  The most common mistake I see made is someone wants a car that typically sells for $50k...they then buy a rolling shell for $10K, thinking they can build their own for less...they then spend 5 years, 1000 hours of labor, and $50K in parts on a restoration...then a year later, disillusioned, they sell it for $45K, and someone else enjoys the fruits of their labor and money.

 

Do what you really want to do, for sure, but do some paper work first and go in knowing what you're getting in to.  JMO.

 

But see, I'm doing it because I want to. From the fist day I posted here I said I'm getting something that me and my father can work on over the next couple of years. If I wanted just a reliable daily driver, as padgett said, it would cost near(I know, some) nothing. Me and my father are just going to work with it until we get it where we want it. Not for resale value, not for a show car, just where we want it. I want a reliable daily driver that sounds nice, looks nice and just is nice.

 

Knowing a body man who knows people helps. Got 2 free tires that actually have quite a bit of tread, he said he can get me a set of 4 really nice wide tires as soon as it's done for a really good deal, he'll paint it for virtually free, can get a windshield for 130$ installed, is teaching me how to pull out the dents in my car and will let me use his equipment.

 

OTOH some of the neatest show cars have resulted from something just sitting in the garage. Bird in the hand and all that.

 

In counterpoint what GT52 says has a lot of truth, are a lot of neat cars out there that just have something obscure wrong and the owner is tired of it. Most I've paid for any of my cars other than the Jeep (bought that when new) is $6500 ('07 Crossfire couple of years ago) and most of what I do is just routine maintenance, tires, and the occasional battery. But then I usually know exactly what I am looking at.

 

What you have now is a #5 and with a little work you can have a #4 (reliable driver). Few k$ and a lot of work more and it could be a #3 (presentable at local shows). Don't expect any more from it but you can really learn a lot. Meanwhile a really nice one with a bad engine or trans may turn up. Seek and ye shall find.

 

Pretty much. Even if I put in 5k, I'll know every part that goes in. I'm always paranoid about what people have done to there cars.

 

I wouldn't want anymore than a #3. I just want a nice looking car that turns heads.

 

We found the website of a place near here, Trans am Creations, and they seem to have nice wheels for cheap cheap. The 16x8 set of 4 High-Tech for $300 and 15x7 for $125. The current wheels are kinda ugly(ahem) and really rusty in spots.

[padgett]

Agree, those look like the wheels I had on my RV. Am finding it harder to find a decent 15" tire and that could get worse in the future. OTOH am very sensitive to wet weather traction. With used tires be very sensitive to any unusual vibration, it could be warning you of a tread seperation.

[Rusty_OToole]

Given that the car is free, the engine seems decent, the body is in one piece, and parts for that car are about the cheapest and easiest to get there are, I don't see any reason not to fix it up. It should be quite possible to have it on the road for well under $3000 with all new brakes, tires, motor tuned up etc.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to do a complete paint job but it doesn't look as if it needs it. Black is easy to match and blow in. A good cleaning, polishing, waxing, and a few touch ups and you are there.

 

The rubber parts can be made better if not perfect. A heat gun makes the material pliable and it can be pushed around like funny putty and made to look halfway decent. Believe me for a first car you could do a lot worse.

[Guest Xeon]

Given that the car is free, the engine seems decent, the body is in one piece, and parts for that car are about the cheapest and easiest to get there are, I don't see any reason not to fix it up. It should be quite possible to have it on the road for well under $3000 with all new brakes, tires, motor tuned up etc.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to do a complete paint job but it doesn't look as if it needs it. Black is easy to match and blow in. A good cleaning, polishing, waxing, and a few touch ups and you are there.

 

The rubber parts can be made better if not perfect. A heat gun makes the material pliable and it can be pushed around like funny putty and made to look halfway decent. Believe me for a first car you could do a lot worse.

 

 

I agree.

 

As for a new paint job, I think it's worse then you're thinking. Down both doors and front fender, and the driver side rear fender there are scratches down to the metal, my father said it's what teenagers used to do. Walk down the cars with keys just for the lulz.

 

There are also some nice sized dents, meaning body work meaning paint, and my neighbor says that most of the time it's just cheaper and easier to paint say, the driver side front fender, than to just blend after the bondo.

[padgett]

Just my opinon but the less bondo the better. Work the metal out as far as possible, use minimum filler, and then sand most of it off. The work will last much longer.

[Guest Xeon]

Just my opinon but the less bondo the better. Work the metal out as far as possible, use minimum filler, and then sand most of it off. The work will last much longer.

 

Yeah, I went over this with my neighbor. He does get the dent almost completely out, but still uses a nice amount of body filler, 20 mins sanding, more filler, sanding, filler, sanding and done. In the end the bondo comes out alot bigger than the dent was, but you can almost see through it it's so thin.

 

 

Now, I know this is unrelated, but I think it could be fun and I know this is a forum for old cars, but you guys know stuff about everything it seems. I will be posting this elsewhere too.

 

One of my father's customers is looking for a new car. She currently has a 2006 Mercedes Benz E-350 with just under 200k miles. She's put close to $5k on it for repairs, it burns through oil like no tomorrow and it's just time for a new car. She's looking for something used, to save money, but something new enough. Like 2012-2015ish. At least as big as the E-350 but she'd rather it not be an SUV. As reliable as possible, well still being a "luxury"(ish) car.

 

She didn't say a budget, but the cheaper the better. I'm guessing she'd like to be under 25-30k but I can't say for sure. She will be driving it almost non stop so gas mileage and reliability are key.

[padgett]

Having had GM cars for thutty yar, in this century I'd lean toward a Chrysler 300 sedan with the Pentastar 3.6 engine or a Cad Catera with the 3.6.

[Guest Xeon]

Having had GM cars for thutty yar, in this century I'd lean toward a Chrysler 300 sedan with the Pentastar 3.6 engine or a Cad Catera with the 3.6.

 

How reliable would you think a, say 2015, Chrysler 300S with Pentastar 3.6L V6 would be? She's thinking she wants 200-250k+ miles, but she's also the kind of person that goes by the books. Oil changes when they say, maintenance when they say, etc etc.

 

I'm not gonna lie, it looks almost perfect. Definitely "luxury-ish", big, good gas mileage, big,

 

 

And is the 5.7L V8 HEMI bad, or just un-needed? Just in case. I heard reliability wise the V8 is really close to the V6, both are great. I just can't really find any numbers.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Xeon (see edit history)

[padgett]

As some have noticed I have a penchant for sixes, in particular OHC sixes, DOHC sixes even more so.

There were some 11-13 Pentastars that had a head machining problem. Most have been repaired by now but Chrysler extended the warrenty to 10 years/100,000 miles. My Jeep is covered for 999,999 miles or until 2095. One of the best things about Chrysler products is the Lifetime Maxcare service contract backed by Chrysler.

The hemi was a great engine in the early '50s for garbage trucks. It is somewhat limited now since can only have two valves and is cam-in-block. The current iteration requires two spark plugs per cyl. OTOH my heep has 4 valve, one plug heads with VVTi&e. My barn door tow car gets the same MPG at 70 as the Crossfire and does it on 87 PON (Hemi wants more)or E85.

ps my tow car has similar specs, winds higher, and makes more power on 200 less CCs than an E-type 8*)

We now return to things at least 25 years old (left side of the sigpic).

[Rusty_OToole]

Your friend would probably be better off buying a new car. Given the deals some companies are offering with low interest rates etc plus the fact that she wants to keep the car a long time.

 

The Chrysler V6 has plenty of power for all normal use and is one of the most popular cars in its class. I don't know much about the new cars so will leave it at that.

[Guest Xeon]

Your friend would probably be better off buying a new car. Given the deals some companies are offering with low interest rates etc plus the fact that she wants to keep the car a long time.

 

The Chrysler V6 has plenty of power for all normal use and is one of the most popular cars in its class. I don't know much about the new cars so will leave it at that.

 

Thanks, I will mention this!!

 

 

 

Now back to the trans am, we've decided to get it running and driving really nice before cosmetics. First, is the brakes. My father is going with replacing everything. New calipers, pads, rotors in the front and new wheel cylinders, brake drums and shoes in the rear. And a new master cylinder/rubber lines, and keeping the metal ones.

 

Is this the best course of action? I'm happy with it as these are old and nasty, and I do want a safe car. The brake fluid that's in it is black and nasty, and that's only the little tiny bit left in the bottom, meaning it's also leaking.

 

And if it is the best way to go, are the autozone medium grade parts quality enough? I mean if I got everything from autozone. Duralast, not valucraft. Brake pads would be their ceramic gold. And if not autozone, where is somewhere to get this stuff?

[padgett]

Agree its aways good to shop a bit, When I bought my Jeep I looked used first but when I found a new one with the equipment I wanted for less than a grand more than the year or two old ones, I jumped.

With new the best time is the year end sales and get the Lifetime Maxcare service contract from Chrysler (dealer will try to push a third party since more profit but can also shop online.) Just my opinion.

Any FLAPS will have good driver quality stuff, I've bought a lot from them but with Amazon Prime, I get a lot that way also. Seems like a rule in automotive that every auto store will have a different price so it pays to shop around. Best is with a business licence and getting wholesale.

As to brakes, those lines have to carry a lot of pressure (over 1,000 psi). If just dirty, clean but if corroded, replace. Is also important to use the proper fittings (not compression).

[Guest Xeon]

Something huge just came up.

 

We've been on thirdgen asking about brakes and wires under the hood, and they said that the carb isn't original??? He said the carb is mech instead of computer controlled??
 

 

http://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech-general-engine/727389-1985-trans-am.html

Edited December 15, 2015 by Xeon (see edit history)

[Guest GT52]

That's why you need people who have one sitting in their garage  .  The probable reason that the carb has been switched out is that rebuilt units of that computer controlled carb are quite expensive.  If you don't have a "check engine" light glowing, someone has removed the bulb/fuse, or maybe disabled the computer entirely.  If you live in an area that has smog inspections, or ever plan to, that ain't gonna fly.

Edited December 15, 2015 by GT52 (see edit history)

[Guest Xeon]

That's why you need people who have one sitting in their garage  .  The probable reason that the carb has been switched out is that rebuilt units of that computer controlled carb are quite expensive.  If you don't have a "check engine" light glowing, someone has removed the bulb/fuse, or maybe disabled the computer entirely.  If you live in an area that has smog inspections, or ever plan to, that ain't gonna fly.

 

Yeah, someone said it might have had a full swap as the engine is blue, which supposedly isn't the right color..

 

Check engine light is on.

 

Oh, it wouldn't have passed anyway. No catalytic converter, no air pump, everything emission related is either disconnected or gone. We live in AL so it isn't a huge problem though.

[TerryB]

Remember that 1983 Z-28 I told you I bought new and the issues it had gave me a love / hate relationship with it? My car had the 5 speed std trans in it. When I drove it in hot weather it would nearly stall out when I went to pull out from an extended stop like sitting at a traffic light. Cooler weather like 75F or below was no problem. I took it back to the dealer under warranty to figure out what was wrong. They had the car for almost a week and then gave it back to me. The trained GM mechanic said the problem was "it has one of them computer controlled carbs on it" and he was not sure how to cure it. The carb would lean out so much it would almost not run when given gas. Later, a GM service bulletin recall was for a faulty evaportive canister control that was allowing gas tank fumes to be sent to the carb when the engine was too hot to burn them properly. The carb was not the issue but was just responding to the signals sent to it. The new canister control did the trick, only took 1.5 years to fix!

Terry

[Guest GT52]

I had an old S10 with a computer controlled Vari-Jet progressive 2bbl carb, and I have to say I was always amazed at how well that thing worked.  On paper, I'd have bet heavily against it.  Pretty crude by today's direct injection standards, but the drivability of that truck was always near flawless and it always easily passed the emission tests.  I finally put a rebuilt one on at about 240K miles, because the throttle blade shaft was so worn it constantly messed with the a/f ratio.

[Guest Xeon]

The manual arrived today! It's huge! Looks very in-depth.. Wiring diagrams are literally the best I've ever seen.

 

Pages are in what I think is extremely good condition for a 30 yr old book!

[RansomEli]

Having owned 2 third generation Camaros, I can tell you that your best friend is www.thirdgen.org.  Everything you need to know about your Firebird is somewhere inside the forums contained inside. You can also get good deals on parts, which are getting increasingly hard to find in junkyards.

 

Some advice:

• Get a good factory shop manual. If you have a CD, that's OK but nothing beats having a book on the fender while your following directions.
• When replacing sensors or pollution devices, always go with genuine Delco. Aftermarket parts just don't work well. If you look around, you can find genuine Delco parts for a bit more than AutoZone.
• The above goes double for water pumps. Aftermarket just don't cut it. What's worse, about 1 out every 4 AC Delco water pumps don't work out of the box. Maybe they've improved, but be prepared.
• Both of the Camaros I have owned have the 5.0 (305) V8 with 5-speed manual transmission. The manual transmission really transforms the car into a wonderful driver. I can get up to 25 mpg with the manual transmission on the highway if I'm careful. I've been meaning to sell my '89 but every time I drive it I change my mind. The best thing you could do to improve your car is to convert it to a manual transmission. ThirdGen.org has a forum section devoted to the task and has complete instructions. Won't cost too much if you can find junkyard parts. I've done it once and it was not too hard. the cost of doing the job will be less than rebuilding your automatic tranny (which will happen when you get just past 110K miles)
• Don't put a 350 engine into the car. Gas mileage sucks. 
• If you need a computer-controlled Rochester, I have one off of my 1986/7 Oldsmobile 307 V8. I had it rebuilt at a cost of $600 and then totaled the car. If it fits your Pontiac I can give it to you for a good deal. Has not been on a car for over 10 years, though.  
• Replace your thermostat with exactly the same temperature rating as recommended by the factory. These engines run hot by design and go contrary to everyday thinking.   

[padgett]

Well I'll quibble just a bit there. I suspect the stock thermostat is a 195F that doesn't reach full open until 205. For computer cars particularly ones with A/C I like a 180F. My Buicks are "all in" by 165 so a 180 provides full closed loop operation without additional enrichment and everything lasts longer. (YMMV).

Agree with getting the proper Carb (M4ME ?) and hook it up right. Having the CEL on may mean it doesn't enter closed loop or lockup. The owner's manual will tell you what every error code means (and there are some). Just need to find someone with a Tech-1 or OTC 2000 (or learn how to pull the blink codes).

[Guest Xeon]

Well I'll quibble just a bit there. I suspect the stock thermostat is a 195F that doesn't reach full open until 205. For computer cars particularly ones with A/C I like a 180F. My Buicks are "all in" by 165 so a 180 provides full closed loop operation without additional enrichment and everything lasts longer. (YMMV).

Agree with getting the proper Carb (M4ME ?) and hook it up right. Having the CEL on may mean it doesn't enter closed loop or lockup. The owner's manual will tell you what every error code means (and there are some). Just need to find someone with a Tech-1 or OTC 2000 (or learn how to pull the blink codes).

 

Our neighbor(who gave me the car) has something like that I believe.

 

 

Where would you recommend getting the carb? Not in a huge rush because I guess we're not getting one, or doing anything with the engine, until a lot later anyway.

 

We'll probably call Trans Am Creations here in AL and see if they have anything. Haven't done business with them yet, but they have like everything. And no shipping cause they're an hour away.

[padgett]

Suspect a remaned corerect carb is going to be around $200 but is the way to go.

First step is to find what carb you need. Unfortunately I do not have any parts books that late but the service manual may have the part number. If not, Jon probably has it.

Just do a search on E4ME Rochester quadrajet.

[Guest Xeon]

Suspect a remaned corerect carb is going to be around $200 but is the way to go.

First step is to find what carb you need. Unfortunately I do not have any parts books that late but the service manual may have the part number. If not, Jon probably has it.

Just do a search on E4ME Rochester quadrajet.

 

As for a number, http://www.thirdgen.org/forums/carburetors/426296-e4me-quadrajet-service-rebuild.html

 

At the bottom, but I'm not sure which one it is??

[Guest GT52]

Suspect a remaned corerect carb is going to be around $200 but is the way to go.

 

I don't think you're going to find one for that, Xeon.  For big ticket items that you can wait a few days for, you usually can't beat RockAuto.com:

 

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php

 

You'll have to pay a core charge, because you don't have the correct unit to send in, and with shipping it looks like you'd be into it for $350-400 even with RockAuto...and that's their lower price rebuilt unit.

[Rusty_OToole]

I would keep the carb if it is working ok.

[padgett]

OK
1) To get the car to run properly is going to take a E4ME carb
2) If not worried about the part number on the side, any with the proper carb inlet should work
3) Anyone know about these guys ? (picture looked like you have a side inlet)

Edited December 20, 2015 by padgett (see edit history)

[JamesBulldogMiller55Buick]

I recommend both these guys for any and all info on QJ

 

Ken at

 http://www.everyday-performance.com/

 

 

Mark at

http://www.quadrajetpower.com/ 

[Guest Xeon]

OK

1) To get the car to run properly is going to take a E4ME carb

2) If not worried about the part number on the side, any with the proper carb inlet should work

3) Anyone know about these guys ? (picture looked like you have a side inlet)

 

If it works like stock, it's good enough for me.

 

Like I said, I'm not buying one yet as it runs and we're not to the "running good" stage yet, but would you definitely recommend buying re manufactured over used right off of a car? Like on some of the forums "parts for sale" they have used carbs in the $50 to $150 range that supposedly work "great"

 

 

I recommend both these guys for any and all info on QJ

 

Ken at

 http://www.everyday-performance.com/

 

 

Mark at

http://www.quadrajetpower.com/ 

 

 

Will look at these!

[padgett]

For $50 used sure but I know how to set up a Quadrajet. Point is to make the computer happy you need the computer controlled adjustments, sensors, and solenoids. Or you can reprogram the computer to ignore the carb. Or you can dump the computer entirely.

 

Personally, I like computer cars but like tuned port or direct injection even better.

[Guest Xeon]

Alright, We're finally getting it into the garage soon. Either today or tomorrow if it doesn't rain.(really slick near the garage, and it's down a hill)

We've decided we'll probably take the engine out. Lets us be sure it's original(or not) and easily replace anything that needs replacing. And to repaint it as it's ugly right now. Some bare metal, some silver and some blue. Probably going to paint it orange like most chevys. We have an engine crane and an engine stand.

Something new that came up, our neighbor(who gave me the car) said when he had the engine rebuilt 7 years ago he threw a low mile corvette tranny in it. He thinks that's what's in it now.

I guess that's pretty much it until we get it into the garage..

 

 

[Guest Xeon]

Well, It's been in the garage and we've been working on it!

 

We're thinking we might get a low mileage 350 and put it in it though.. We did a compression test and got in the 105ish range, and we have no idea how many miles it has.. It all depends on if we find any good deals though.

 

 

We haven't found any MAJOR problems, although the interior is pretty trashed. Not as bad as it could be I guess, but pretty bad. The latch doesn't work on one of the seats so I'm not sure if we need new seats or we can just recover them. Door panels are trashed, looking for used but might just get new. We're planning on switching the interior to tan.

 

Progress:

 

 

We got the carpets out, pic #3 shows the one rust spot we found. Front bumper/headlight assemblies are off, back bumper, a bunch of trim pieces, console.

[JamesBulldogMiller55Buick]

That;s not bad/ just a bit of rust

Looking good

[Guest Xeon]

That;s not bad/ just a bit of rust

Looking good

 

Yeah, my father said it's a pretty easy fix. Not too much welding.

[Guest Xeon]

Now, I know this place is about bone-stock most of the time, but I have an idea to run past you guys.

 

Do you think I should leave the console/shifter original(buy the new plates etc) or empty all of that out, like the pictures, and put a hurst/other(possible ratchet) shifter? That would mean getting the carpet with no console cutout and making something. It would look a lot cleaner, but no where near original.

Edited January 17, 2016 by Xeon (see edit history)

[JACK M]

Its your car, do what makes you happy.

[Tristan]

Awesome find! Can't wait to see it when it's done.

Thanks for sharing and keeping us updated!

[Guest Xeon]

Its your car, do what makes you happy.

 

See, that's just it. I think either one would look great, I'm just wondering what other people think.

[Rusty_OToole]

I think you should keep the original console.

[padgett]

My preference would be for either the stock shifter or a T56. Why bother with anything in the middle ?

[kevin1221]

I'd vote for the original set up.

I bought a new 1987 Trans Am GTA. Loved that car. I also drove many Trans Ams as company cars in the 80's as I worked at a Pontiac dealer.

Enjoy your car.

Kevin