62 riviera carb replacement

[Healeybob]

I am thinking of replacing the Carter AFB on my 1963 riviera. Anybody know the equivalent edelbrock for a 401 nailhead?

Thanks

Edited September 14, 2015 by Healeybob (see edit history)

[RivNut]

The factory carb is a 625 CFM.  Get as close as you can.  Remember, your OE air cleaner will not fit on an aftermarket AFB.   Any particular reason that you don't rebuild the original one?  Rebuilding it will allow you to run the original air cleaner and you won't have to try to engineer kickdown linkage.

 

Ed

Edited September 14, 2015 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Healeybob]

Rivnut, I know they make a 600 and a 700 or 750. So a 600 it is. How about all the connections for the throttle and kick down etc. Is there a style or part number you need for it from Edelbrock?

[RivNut]

The Thunder Series AVS comes in a 650 CFM.  AVS stands for Air Valve Secondary.  It works "on demand" based on the needs of the engine.  Similar to a Rochester Q-jet.  All Edelbrock carbs are universal fit.

[gord14080]

carb talk?  After a long highway drive my tail pipes are still sooty ,question is can I get smaller jets for my 425 cu. in.?

Has anyone ever tried this or any sugestion on maybe getting pipes to clean up a littled bit?

Dwell is 30 timing is+4 works great but I would like to see not so much black,temp. is180

 I am under the impression carb is original.long drive was 300 mi.

any advise or thoughts would be appreciated.  Gordon inNova Scotia Thanks again.

[Riviera63]

Gordon,

When I first got my car it had the same problem. Sooty tail pips and you could see the black up inside the pipes themselves. I was running very rich. I am no mechanic and there are many out there that can pinpoint your problem and give you specifics on how to correct it. I will tell you what I did that seemed to solve the problem. I replaced plugs, wires, distributor, points, condenser and rotor. You should have seen the plugs. Besides being very old, the soot build up was unbelievable. We set timing, plug gaps etc. to the specs in the manual. I also replaced my carb with a stock rebuilt one which was also set to factory specs. I am not sure which item(s) did it, but the problem was solved. I suspect it was the carb. As I said I'm sure you will get more specific ideas from fellow forum members so that you may not have to got to the extreme of a new carb or replacing other items. Being a non-mechanic this worked for me.

Bill

[carbking]

Those that are over 50 may remember that the sign of a well-tuned engine was a white tailpipe. Well, that "white stuff" in the tailpipe was lead (think what your lungs looked like!).

 

With today's fuel, the sign of a well-tuned engine is a very dark brown or black tailpipe. And while the coating will flake off if you disturb it with a tool. To see this result, the operator needs to run the engine to normal temperature, run the vehicle at highway speed, and turn off the engine at highway speed and coast to a stop. Just slowing down to a stop and then turning off the engine may result in tailpipe sooting.

 

Causes (probability percentages):

 

Ignition - 90 percent

Carb - 5 percent

Other (ie low compression) - 5 percent

 

As the carburetor is the easiest to access (with downdraft carburetors) it normally erroneously is the first item to bombard with verbal abuse.

 

I have said (tongue in cheek) for years that updraft carburetors are much more reliable than downdraft carburetors. Why? Because the updraft is so hard to service, the real problem is generally solved before looking at the carburetor.

 

And to the original poster: yes, smaller jets ARE available, AND A TERRIBLE IDEA!!!

 

Jon.

[gord14080]

All my tune up stuff is new and set to specs,I didn't know or was not aware of the leaded gas may cause my concern

my engine is a recent complete rebuilt and works perfect,I am well over 50 and come from old school mechanics .

This past weekend I drove 300 mi. one way then back and I expected to look under at my tail pipes and at least

see a dull gray.Around home short drives I expected black pipes,I never see black smoke so I will relax and leave carb

alone.

thanks for the education

Gordon14080

[lrlforfun]

OK Carb King: I too wasn't aware that the Lion's share of problems were ignition.

 

 On a different yet similar subject........I have got beat up for saying this and I will say it again. Internet diagnosis are pretty much worthless. The ONLY real support one can give another member who's mentioning a problem on line is to lay out the diagnostic procedure. Fuel system, ignition, mechanical.   Identify the problem (in this case tail pipe color) and backtrack from there. Each system needs  to be evaluated. The individual components need to be isolated and after they are determined to be in working order backtrack on to the next step.

 

I am not a mechanic and I have shot myself in the foot many time by purchasing parts "HOPING" that will solve my issue. I got lucky a few times.

 

Having  a mentor who can really teach the correct process is more than special.  Perhaps for those that didn't have a mentor certain considerations need to be examined.    Mitch

[alini]

Remember you are talking about carb'd engines.  They will always run rich unless you rejet them.  The nature of the beast with a carb engine you are stuck with a wide fuel trim.  You are relying on engine vacuum to suck in the right amount of gas.  If its running well, doesnt smoke and no burning oil there has to be some acceptable level of soot in the tailpipe

 

The original poster didnt state WHY he wants to change the carb just that he is.  Im curious as to why. 

 

With that said, Ed pointed out the engine is a 625 CFM....always go with the larger carb...dont go down.  Otherwise you are just like a NASCAR restrictor plate and choking the engine

[RivNut]

I have a friend who is runnig two Carter Series 9000 AFB's, each 750 cfm's, on his 425..  He told me that his engine has never been happier.

 

Ed

[carbking]

Remember you are talking about carb'd engines.  They will always run rich unless you rejet them.  The nature of the beast with a carb engine you are stuck with a wide fuel trim.  You are relying on engine vacuum to suck in the right amount of gas.  If its running well, doesnt smoke and no burning oil there has to be some acceptable level of soot in the tailpipe

 

The original poster didnt state WHY he wants to change the carb just that he is.  Im curious as to why. 

 

With that said, Ed pointed out the engine is a 625 CFM....always go with the larger carb...dont go down.  Otherwise you are just like a NASCAR restrictor plate and choking the engine

 

Actually, original equipment carbs tend to run slightly LEAN on modern fuel. Quite often, opening the idle jets an additional 0.002 inch does wonders for idle quality, and transition from idle to off-idle/cruise (removing the hesitation many erroneously think is a bad accelerator pump).

 

While it is impossible to get quite as tight an A/F ratio curve with a carburetor as with efi (when it works); with the original Carter AFB, one can get extremely close AS DID THE ORIGINAL ENGINEERS! Once the spread-bore carbs (Rochester Q-Jet, Carter TQ) came out (smaller primaries gave more air velocity at the same vacuum level), the A/F ratio became even tighter.

 

Most original Carter AFB's come with 3-step step-up rods (often called metering rods), so Carter has several adjustment possibilities:

 

(1) Idle

(2) Off-idle (fixed, but machinable)

(3) High vacuum cruise (the thickest step on the rod)

(4) Mid range vacuum cruise (the middle step on the rod)

(5) Low vacuum cruise (the lower step on the rod)

(6) Primary/secondary transition (fixed)

(7) Wide open throttle

 

Additionally, the AFB has step-up piston springs (also called vacuum springs) to tune the timing of the various circuits.

 

The genuine Carter aftermarket AFB's generally have 2-step rods, and most of the circuits are set rich as the aftermarket carbs were designed for the performance marketplace.

 

On a stock engine, a really good carburetor technician MAY be able to approach the driveability and fuel economy of the original carb by spending hours of time testing and many dollars on parts which will end up not being used. On the other hand, the aftermarket carb MAY increase wide-open throttle performance by a measureable (on a dyno) amount.  Getting significant improvement with an aftermarket carb of the same type on a stock engine generally means the original carb needed work. Changing a two-barrel to a four-barrel may give better results, but the carb is of a different type. The same holds true for changing to multiple carburetion. The factory engineers really did know what they were doing with the installation of the original carb.

 

Now, if the engine is significantly modified, that is an entirely different story!

 

As to tailpipe condition, I currently have 6 licensed vehicles. The inside of the tailpipes on the 3 carbureted vehicles (even the one with two four-barrels) look exactly the same as the inside of the tailpipes on the 3 newer efi-engined vehicles.

 

The percentages posted came from tests done in St. Louis years ago by Carter. Carter had 1000 cars diagnosed as having "carburetor problems" by PROFESSIONAL MECHANICS brought to they laboratory for testing. As Carter was in the business of selling carbs and kits to customers who thought they needed carbs/kits, WHY would Carter give the 90 percent figure to ignition and talk themselves out of a sale unless true?

 

Jon.

Edited September 16, 2015 by carbking (see edit history)

[Guest Rivdog]

Does anyone offer a swap for a 65 Riv Carter AFB carb? My choke isn't working and I'm told I could use a rebuild. I don't want to send it out and wait - I'd like to have a rebuilt one sent out and then send mine back for the core fee. Thanks.

[RivNut]

Call Jon Hargrove, owner of The Carburetor Shop, and ask him what carbs he has in stock.   Or buy a kit from Jon and DIY.

 

314/392-7378

Edited October 9, 2015 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Guest Rivdog]

I tried this number several times. I can't get through. I think it's a google voice number or something. Do you have a website or email address or a different number? Thanks.

[carbking]

The number is answered Monday and Tuesday. The rest of the time you get a message to call on Monday or Tuesday.

 

We don't have a rebuilt exchange on this carburetor, but we do make the kits.

 

Before commiting to a rebuild, verify why the choke isn't working:

 

(1) stopped up carburetor source (rebuild carb)

(2) defective choke tube (replace tube)

(3) defective tube in manifold (hope it isn't this)

 

Also, make sure the choke is correctly adjusted:

 

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Automaticchokes.htm

 

Jon.

Edited October 9, 2015 by carbking (see edit history)

[Guest Rivdog]

Jon,

 

Thanks for the post and the article. I never got any message when calling your number. It just either says all circuits are busy or sometimes rings busy after a long pause. I'll see if this info helps at all otherwise I'll probably just live with a non working choke for the time being.

 

John

[carbking]

Jon,

 

Thanks for the post and the article. I never got any message when calling your number. It just either says all circuits are busy or sometimes rings busy after a long pause. I'll see if this info helps at all otherwise I'll probably just live with a non working choke for the time being.

 

John

 

John - don't know what might be happening. I test the machine periodically and it has never failed when I call it; and I KNOW the telephone works on the days I answer (Monday and Tuesday). I generally have a "low battery light" on my left ear at the end of each of these days!!!

 

I just called the shop number from a different phone again, and got the message, so machine is working.

 

Jon.

[RivNut]

I posted a phone number from one of Jon's old business cards,  Look in his signature and you'll notice the area code has changed to 573 from 314.  HA!, problem solved.

Edited October 10, 2015 by RivNut (see edit history)

[1965rivgs]

Remove the heat tube at the choke housing, and with engine running, check for vacuum at the nipple.

 

If no vacuum, check to be sure there is a round gasket which seals the choke cover (black, round).

 

If there is a gasket check to be sure there is a small rubber oring between the choke housing and the carb body. This is often missing and causes a loss of vacuum which is needed to encourage the movement of heated air thru the system.

 

If the oring is there check for vacuum at the passage which the oring seals.

 

If no vacuum at the passage, which extends to an area under the front carb body which is exposed to manifold vacuum, the passage is probably blocked. This passage tends to block with hard packed carbon and is difficult to clean.

 

I have cleaned them on the car but probably best to remove the carb to the bench. This will give you an opportunity to check for the proper metal insulating plate and the proper gasket has been installed.

 

All these checks can be done with a minimum of disassembly to the carb. If all else is OK no need for rebuilding.

 

Good luck,

  Tom

[carbking]

I posted a phone number from one of Jon's old business cards,  Look in his signature and you'll notice the area code has changed to 573 from 314.  HA!, problem solved.

 

Ed, you keep things forever!!!

 

I didn't notice the area code you posted. That area code got changed maybe 20~25 years ago. Brings back some really bad memories. This was before the internet exploded. A. T. & T. changed our area code and 911 required the usps to change our address within about 3 months of each other. Almost put us out of business! We had to run extra display ads in HMN. About 20 years of advertising were wiped out in 3 months!

 

Jon.

[RivNut]

Ed, you keep things forever!!!

 

I didn't notice the area code you posted. That area code got changed maybe 20~25 years ago. Brings back some really bad memories. This was before the internet exploded. A. T. & T. changed our area code and 911 required the usps to change our address within about 3 months of each other. Almost put us out of business! We had to run extra display ads in HMN. About 20 years of advertising were wiped out in 3 months!

 

Jon.

I guess that I should get a new business card from you then. HA!