Gound (not zero)

[John348]

I think you have other problems with your homes electric service for that to be happening! A floating ground is NO GROUND! Concrete as a conductor????? Sorry I don't see it not with 110/208 Volts, 

[Rogillio]

I could tell you electrical stories that would blow you mind John. 28 years as an electrical engineer for The Boeing Company I have seen a lot of electrical phenomena. If you think concrete won't conduct then try this: Stand on concrete with bare feet and stick a butter knife into the hot side of a 120V outlet. If concrete is an insulator you won't be a path yo ground. Give it a try and let me know about how concrete won't conduct electricity.

[John348]

It is the salt on your skin (perspiration), and it is not a true "hit" of 110V. if it were you would sustain a rather severe injury considering the current would cross your heart to exit your through your feet.  After almost 40 years as General Foreman for one of the larger Electrical Contractors in NYC there is not too much you are going to tell me that will blow my mind with electricity. I have been shocked many times. I never said concrete is an insulator, but I did say it is not a conductor.

 

Being you have a lot of experience as an EE I am rather confused why you even asked for any our opinions in the first place, It seems to me you have this all under control and really the only advice I can offer is to have an electrician check why you have a 110 volts (no such thing as 120V by the way) from hot to your concrete floor before someone gets hurt. 

 

Good luck

[Beltfed]

Interesting topic even if several response are off topic and not correct. Don't have a dog in the fight so not going to start one.

[Rogillio]

It is the salt on your skin (perspiration), and it is not a true "hit" of 110V. if it were you would sustain a rather severe injury considering the current would cross your heart to exit your through your feet.  After almost 40 years as General Foreman for one of the larger Electrical Contractors in NYC there is not too much you are going to tell me that will blow my mind with electricity. I have been shocked many times. I never said concrete is an insulator, but I did say it is not a conductor.

 

Being you have a lot of experience as an EE I am rather confused why you even asked for any our opinions in the first place, It seems to me you have this all under control and really the only advice I can offer is to have an electrician check why you have a 110 volts (no such thing as 120V by the way) from hot to your concrete floor before someone gets hurt. 

 

Good luck

Maybe we are talking past each other. I'm not selling anything....just sharing an observation. The observation is this : when using an electronic battery charger be aware that if your car is grounded to your concrete floor you will get some squirrelly results from a battery charger that senesces polarity, voltage, current and battery type.

This is a fact and is indisputable. You can argue all you want and even post your resume but it won't change this fact.

[Luv2Wrench]

It is the salt on your skin (perspiration), and it is not a true "hit" of 110V. if it were you would sustain a rather severe injury considering the current would cross your heart to exit your through your feet.  After almost 40 years as General Foreman for one of the larger Electrical Contractors in NYC there is not too much you are going to tell me that will blow my mind with electricity. I have been shocked many times. I never said concrete is an insulator, but I did say it is not a conductor.

 

Being you have a lot of experience as an EE I am rather confused why you even asked for any our opinions in the first place, It seems to me you have this all under control and really the only advice I can offer is to have an electrician check why you have a 110 volts (no such thing as 120V by the way) from hot to your concrete floor before someone gets hurt. 

 

Good luck

With all due respect to your position and time of service, let's not confuse people in the forum.  Concrete is a conductor.  It isn't a good conductor but on grade it will conduct quite well, particularly if there is moisture (on or under) the slab.  The NEC considers concrete a grounded surface. See Note 2 to Table 110.26(A)(1).  Condition 2 — Exposed live parts on one side of the working space and grounded parts on the other side of the working space. Concrete, brick, or tile walls shall be considered as grounded.

 

In the US, ANSI C84.1 specifies that the nominal voltage at the source should be 120 V and allows a range of 114 to 126 V (+/- 5%).  Historically 110, 115 and 117 have been used at different times and places in the US.   Mains power is sometime referred to as 110 V however 120 V is the nominal voltage.

[Rogillio]

With all due respect to your position and time of service, let's not confuse people in the forum.  Concrete is a conductor.  It isn't a good conductor but on grade it will conduct quite well, particularly if there is moisture (on or under) the slab.  The NEC considers concrete a grounded surface. See Note 2 to Table 110.26(A)(1).  Condition 2 — Exposed live parts on one side of the working space and grounded parts on the other side of the working space. Concrete, brick, or tile walls shall be considered as grounded.

 

In the US, ANSI C84.1 specifies that the nominal voltage at the source should be 120 V and allows a range of 114 to 126 V (+/- 5%).  Historically 110, 115 and 117 have been used at different times and places in the US.   Mains power is sometime referred to as 110 V however 120 V is the nominal voltage.

Good points!

A few years ago I was standing barefoot on wet concrete and put my HSV in the water. I felt a mild stinging! I was quite concerned. I did a lot of reading and research and concluded I was feeling the voltage between the 220 neutral of the pump and earth ground. I ended up adding a ground rod right at the pump and this eliminated the problem. If you google 'ground to neutral voltage' you can read a lot about this.

[Larry W]

As an electrician in an auto plant, this discussion holds quite a bit of interest for me. I agree that concrete by itself can be a conductor of electricity, albeit not a very good one. But, what about the re-bar within the concrete. I would think that is where most of the conductivity exists.

[padgett]

Were you an electrician in NYC when they still had DC ? 50hz ?

My nominal at home is 125vac & have seen 130v, why I have a Variac in the equiment closet clamped to 115v and just about everything else is on a UPS (have quite a few). Florida has such reliable power that also have several generators.

Latest project is the Holy Grail of RV: running a 13.5kbtu Coleman on a single Honda EU2000i. It's Alive!

ps rebar in my garage floor is horizontal.

pps was hit by lightning once (at least that's what the bystanders said, I don't remember...)

[capngrog]

Is concrete in its pure form a conductor, or is it contaminants in the mix that combine to act as a minimal conductor?  The ground (earth, dirt etc.) can be a conductor, so I guess concrete can be also.  The higher the moisture content of soil, the better is the ground (electrically speaking).  By the way, water, in its purest form is not a conductor, it's only when contaminants (such as salt) are added that it becomes a conductor.  At least that's the way I recall it.

 

I'm not an expert on electricity by any means, but I also, have been struck by lightning.  That 'splains a lot.

 

Stay grounded,

Grog