Couple of Title Questions?

[Guest ironyman]

It's always been my understanding that they started Titling Vehicles in the late '50s or early '60s. Is that correct? Then you would apply for a title to any Vehicle older than that you owned.

Next, I have a Trike that was determined here to had started out as an Indian Warrior Trike. That would date it around '49 to '53. It's been cobbled up and changed to the point it is now a Home Made Vehicle. Is there a such thing as a Home Made Title for a Vehicle? I have them for trailers. But I guess Vehicles may be a different story. I've looked all over it and can find no VIN, Serial number or any number for that matter. Can't even find the make or size of the engine. Guy I bought it from said his Father bought it at an auction about 40 years ago and never did anything with it. There is a plate on it that is a '79. So that would make it more like 35 years ago. I asked the guy about the plate and he said he didn't know if it was plated to the trike or a plate off something else someone just put on it so they could ride it.

The Harley I have when I bought it the guy said he owned it for a year. I looked at the title and it was only a month old. He said he just titled it when he decided to sell it. He had put a Honda plate on it to ride it. Which he took off when I bought it.

Googling the net I found this reply to some one else asking about how to get a title:

"Many years ago a friend bought a harley but the seller never came through with the title. It wasn't stolen, but it ended up the seller never got it from the guy he purchased it from.

My friend had to take the bike to the nearest Highway Patrol headquarters where they checked all the numbers and so on. When everything checked out ok, I think he had to return a second time with the bike where they affixed a plate with a new VIN #. He was then able to get it titled. I don't know about any costs, but then again that was many years ago.

My suggestion is to contact your nearest troop headquarters for more info."

This reply is seven years old.

So I guess I'll need to contact the HP and see what they say. I'm thinking I should remove the plate before do so. Any thoughts on that? I'm in the state of Missouri were they believe in titling everything.

Any and all thoughts welcome.

[61polara]

Some state began titles in the 1920's or earlier and title laws vary a lot from state to state. Start by contacting your state Department of Motor Vehicles and see if there is a process to obtain a title or registration for your bike.

[cahartley]

I know that Harley Davidson motorcycles have engine numbers.

The engine number is the VIN........at least on the old bikes.

[Guest ironyman]

I know that Harley Davidson motorcycles have engine numbers.

The engine number is the VIN........at least on the old bikes.

Wonder if that was the same for Indians? That would explain why there is no numbers on the trike. Just wonder how the DMV will think of it?

[Rusty_OToole]

Suggest you take some photos and ask at the DMV or police station. Phone first, tell them you have a non running 1950 motorcycle and need to know how to title it before you fix it up. There should be a way to do this that is not too difficult. You may need a bill of sale or receipt of some kind from the seller.

[NTX5467]

Vehicle titles existed for many decades prior to the 1950s. Had to be some way of reasonably ownership, other than possession of the keys to the vehicle.

What DID change in the 1950s was a shift from "motor numbers" to a real Vehicle Identification Number (as we know it today). In prior times, it was generally unlikely that an engine block would ever leave the chassis it was installed into at the factory. Therefore, the engine number was the most recognizable number to use for vehicle titling purposes. Still, there were "body numbers" and "chassis numbers" on each vehicle, though, but they might have taken some doing to discover where they were on their respective vehicles. In the event an engine change was necessary, there were official papers to document this situation with the states DMV.

Similarly, motorcycles would have engine numbers and frame numbers to deal with, I suspect.

In Texas, we can access the complete DMV regulations via the state's vehicle registration website. Your state might be similar. I highly suggest that as a "first move" so you might have a better idea of what is needed before consulting your local DMV office. As Rusty mentioned, pictures and sales documents can be important in completing the whole titling operation.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[capngrog]

I have a 1938 Chevrolet Master Deluxe 4 door with its original 1938 title from the State of Illinois. As was previously mentioned in this thread, many states did not have title laws until much later.

Cheers and Happy New Year,

Grog

[cahartley]

Wonder if that was the same for Indians? That would explain why there is no numbers on the trike. Just wonder how the DMV will think of it?

I was told about the engine number thing when I shot the photos and put together that web page for my friends >>> http://rosholtmotorcycle.com/3.html

At the bottom of that page it states that a custom bike like that one is a once in a lifetime thing but you MUST have an engine with a good serial number to do it.

Why it's a one time deal is beyond me and the business owner.........we don't understand why anyone should care if someone wanted 20 full customs....... :confused:

[CarlLaFong]

The law allows for one, non emissions compliant, motorcycle per lifetime. As long as the bike meets state/federal standards you can build or own as many as you want. Prior to the federally mandated VIN, bikes were registered by the engine number. Getting that thing registered is going to be a nightmare. When you're finally done, out of patience and money, but with a plate and title in your hand, then what??? You are left with a hideous contraption that rattles, shakes, smokes and tops out at 25 or 30 mph. Why not cut your losses and sell it to an Indian restorer??

[Guest ironyman]

Up Date to how to get a Title in Missouri: Was in Springfield today to drop off my Semi at the shop. The MO HP was just a couple blocks down the road so I stopped by there to get the Low Down. What the Man told me I need to do is go to my County Circuit Clerk and do a 'Petition For Title' for the Circuit Court. He said the Springfield Judge requires you have a Lawyer. But each County is different. He said he believed my County didn't require one. But to check with them and see what they say. The Judge will or can then issue a court order for a VIN. If he does so I then take it down to Springfield were the HP will attach a VIN plate. If denied, I can appeal to a Higher Count in Jefferson City. But I don't think I'll take it that far. Not to hard of a process. Seemed to depend mostly on what kind of a Judge you get I guess.

[Guest ironyman]

The law allows for one, non emissions compliant, motorcycle per lifetime. As long as the bike meets state/federal standards you can build or own as many as you want. Prior to the federally mandated VIN, bikes were registered by the engine number. Getting that thing registered is going to be a nightmare. When you're finally done, out of patience and money, but with a plate and title in your hand, then what??? You are left with a hideous contraption that rattles, shakes, smokes and tops out at 25 or 30 mph. Why not cut your losses and sell it to an Indian restorer??

This law you are talking about seems to be state law. I don't know what state you are in but I don't think it applies here.

"Why not cut your losses and sell it to an Indian restorer??" What are these losses you are referring to? So far I'm only in it for $200. Sell now and I know I can make money. Probably the most Wise thing to do.

But aren't most restoring projects 'Labors of Love"? There are some who make money doing so, But wouldn't for most to restore (Right) then sell be a loss?

You are the one who said:

What you have is an Indian Warrior trike. They are quite rare.

"Quite Rare"

I'm new here but not new to rusty old iron.

Little bit of my History:

After buying my mimi bike at age 11 with my paper route money while my friends were getting them for Christmas my friends then got Mini trails and then trail 70s. I bought a Honda 65. Try finding one of them. Then at 16 I bought a basket case 650 BSA fully chopped. By 18 I had it running. Had to make a lots of parts myself. Took Machine Shop to do so.

Jump a little ahead. Not trying to write a book here. My name to fame is my '78 Ford F250 4WD Extended Cab. They didn't make a lots of them that size in 4WD. It was an old farm truck with every thing on it tore up. In I think it was '98 it won 3rd place in the 'Handy Man Club of America' Truck Contest. I can get you the month and year if needed. Most say the only reason it got 3rd is that the first 2 used products advertised in the magazine.

Jumping to now. I have a '50 Buick Special with and in line 8 (not a rare find) A '54 chevy truck. (Who don't have an old Chevy Truck?) I have 5 Ford 'N' Tractors (once again plenty of those to go a round) Got a '76 Harley (Fun, but no big deal)

Just a bunch of old iron. I do my own Mechanic work, Sand Blasting and Paint Spraying.

The one thing I've always wanted was to find an Old Indian. Never figured I would. If I can Title this thing I know I'll never be able to put an Indian motor back on it. I'd like to put something like an early '70 Honda 360 on it. Might still rattle and shake but I can do something about the smoke and I might get more than 30 out of it.

If I can't Title it. I can try to get the engine on it running and ride it around the farm. I've got a couple of Wisconsin 12HP engines and this engine is way bigger. I think I could sell it and get my money back out of it. It's a heck of an engine. If that engine don't work I have four 32 CI four cylinder Military generator engines that I bet only weigh about as much as that one cylinder does and they would do a fine job pushing it around.

I can sell this Trike any time. I have a job and pay my Bills. Not Rich, but we get by. Not like I need to sell so we can make ends meet. If in the end I sell it at a loss, so what. I had a rare Indian Trike for a time. I had a nice to me 650 BSA at one time. It's gone now for good. Once I sell this trike, It's gone for good too.

[bhambulldog]

As someone posted above,

Title laws are different from state to state.

Alabama does not issue titles for vehicles built before '75

[Guest ironyman]

As someone posted above,

Title laws are different from state to state.

Alabama does not issue titles for vehicles built before '75

Sounds like all I would need then is a Bill of Sale from Alabama. I moved up here from Mississippi. Bought with me several trailers, boats and ATVs. Mississippi doesn't title any of them. Got up here and had to get titles for all of them. Even separate titles for the boats and the engines on them. But that was no problems to do so. DMV just issued them to me.