daylight after 29 years: 1938 Dodge D-8 sedan

[Guest Chief Dodgie]

Hello everyone!

I was digging the internet for information and inspiration concerning my recent purchase, a 1938 Dodge D-8 sedan. I came across this very informative forum and thought id be a fool not to join in on the vast library of experiences here in this community.

Here's the story as told by sellers' family members and friends.

It was purchased new by the great grandfather, passed down to the grandfather, then to the father, and finally inherited by the son. Passed registrations in the vehicle support this history.

The father passed away recently, and left the D-8 to the son, who tragically could not accept the responsibility of owning, and caring for this excellent example. So he posted it on Craigslist at midnight. i happened to be doing recon on craigslist looking for parts cars and pieces to feed my 51 chieftain... A friend of mine was a good friend of the father and had told me of the dodge, but was certain it was not available.

So early in the a.m. I became an early morning nuisance and was able to acquire the vehicle.

I will post pictures tomorrow of what i found.

It was locked in a garage since 1985, and just yesterday, rolled out into the front lawn. i have never owned a vehicle this old before, and am really enjoying learning about its many innovations and design peculiarities.

My first question is likely elementary, but i cant seem to find available information concerning the VIN. the registration shows a six digit numerical VIN, but all the websites that list plausible VIN's for this vintage are many more digits than that. Can anyone tell me how to verify the VIN on a 38 dodge? how to decode?

Suprisingly, there is only two spots of rust on this car. Both Spots are on the c-pillar bottom, just above the running boards, between the rear doors and the rear fenders. Easy repair.

Which brings me to my last question for tonight: im reading alot about the D-8's in the last 24 hours... they dont seem to be that valuable. which is curious to me, because one website listed that of the 38' D-8 4dr sedans... only 714 were made in 1938. seems to be a misprint... can someone tell me what the real count is? If that is true, that only 714 were made of this specific model, then i suppose there is yet a third and more important question: Should this car be left exactly as i have found it? or should i restore as planned?

Thank you for the opportunity to hear your feedback.

I look forward to reading it.

[GLong]

It can only be original once, Any car can be restored. I'd leave it as is, restore the mechanicals; the brakes, suspension etc.

Before you drive it, remove the oil pan, clean the pan, inspect the oil pump, Clean or at least flush the radiator and cooling system.

These cars have a very good engine and drivetrain, good brakes.. Enjoy it as it was built.

JMHO

GLong

[Guest Chief Dodgie]

thanks for the advice.

ought i to fix the tiny rust holes however?

[Guest Henry White]

Exactly what he said. Make the brakes perfect, including the emergency brake, and the mechanicals decent. Preserve the original patina, to heck with restorations. Restored cars own the owners, original cars are enjoyed.

I would add, replace the water distribution tube, flexible fuel line, pumps, belt, hoses, and go.

I cant answer your questions.

[jpage]

I believe that they were still using the serial number as the VIN number in '38. You should find a long tag riveted to the right side "A" pillar that says "serial number"; this is the serial number of the car and the number that should match your title. This number will not match any other numbers found on your car unless you can locate the number which is stamped on the frame. You may not be able to see it with the body on and the location and depth of stamping will vary from car to car. There should also be 2 metal tags fastened to the firewall, one larger than the other. One carries the body number and the other carries patent info. The engine number is stamped on a raised boss on the left side of the engine just ahead of the oil fill tube at the line where the head meets the block. It should start with D8-. If it carries another number there is the possibility that the engine was changed at some point. If you plan on doing any work on the car I strongly recommend that you purchase copies of the Master Maintenance manual for '38 and if you can find one, The Motor's manual for that period. They contain many useful illustrations and detailed directions on repair, replacement of parts and service. Repairing the brakes can be tricky without the correct directions. Good luck and have fun: you;ll find that there are many knowledgeable folks on this sight willing to help with info and parts. You may also want to check out the Dodge thread on this forum!

Edited May 2, 2014 by jpage (see edit history)

[keiser31]

If your car has a hump style trunk on the back, there were 73,417 built. If the back has no hump, 714 were built. If it is a 7-passenger style, 1,953 were built. The serial number should be on the door jamb and should have 7 or 8 numbers.

Edited May 2, 2014 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

What tiny rust holes? If you mean in the body touch up the rusty areas with rust paint to prevent further rusting. Depending how bad it is, that may be all you need to do. If large areas are perforated and weakened you may need to have new metal welded in, but this will require bodywork and painting that would spoil the originality and cost money. So, best not mess with it if possible.

[ply33]

I believe that they were still using the serial number as the VIN number in '38. You should find a long tag riveted to the right side "A" pillar that says "serial number"; this is the serial number of the car and the number that should match your title. This number will not match any other numbers found on your car unless you can locate the number which is stamped on the frame. You may not be able to see it with the body on and the location and depth of stamping will vary from car to car. There should also be 2 metal tags fastened to the firewall, one larger than the other. One carries the body number and the other carries patent info. The engine number is stamped on a raised boss on the left side of the engine just ahead of the oil fill tube at the line where the head meets the block. It should start with D8-. If it carries another number there is the possibility that the engine was changed at some point. If you plan on doing any work on the car I strongly recommend that you purchase copies of the Master Maintenance manual for '38 and if you can find one, The Motor's manual for that period. They contain many useful illustrations and detailed directions on repair, replacement of parts and service. Repairing the brakes can be tricky without the correct directions. Good luck and have fun: you;ll find that there are many knowledgeable folks on this sight willing to help with info and parts. You may also want to check out the Dodge thread on this forum!

What he wrote.

Some states used the engine number for registration purposes, if so they the ID on your paperwork would have started with D8 but as it is all digits it is most likely the serial number.

Serial numbers were allocated by engineering code and by assembly plant so you can tell where it was built and about how far through the production run it was. I've go a look up tool at http://www.ply33.com/Misc/vin that should have your numbers.

If you want to know what options it was shipped with, the dealer it was originally shipped to, etc. you can get the "build card" from Chrysler Historical: http://www.chryslergroupllc.com/company/Heritage/Pages/Build-Records.aspx

edit: About value, it seems that that era Chrysler product is undervalued compared to equivalent or even lesser quality cars from some other manufacturers. I suspect that is a result of a lack of reproduction parts like you have for Ford or Chevrolets.

In general mechanical parts are pretty easy to find as Chrysler engineers generally did a reasonable job and then kept the same design for a long time. For example, your oil pan gasket will fit all Plymouth and US built Dodge 6 cylinder car engines from '33 to '59. I get most of the parts I need to keep my '33 on the road at my local auto supply store. On the plus side of the good engineering done early and then kept in production for years is that your 30s Chrysler product, if in reasonable mechanical shape, will keep up with cars built a long time after they were.

Trim items are, however, a different kettle of fish. They usually changed every year and are often quite rare. In my opinion you are better off starting with a car with all the trim in good condition and shot mechanicals than the reverse.

Edited May 2, 2014 by ply33 (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

For years Ford was the most popular of the low priced collector cars because of its performance, along with Chev which was the most popular when they were new. Plymouth and Dodge were considered boring. Good sound transportation value in their day but not very interesting to a collector.

Today any car from the thirties is a rarity and the Dodges are getting more interest. They were a well made car. Most parts are available although not as many as Ford or Chev.

[Guest Chief Dodgie]

all very excellent comments. thank you so much.

It is indeed the humpback sedan. 73k made... thats not a bunch by todays standards, and i cant imagine there are many left. I scoured the internet internationally to find evidences of 38 d8 sedans being sold over the past few years. im hard pressed to come up with a dozen examples. Barrett Jackson has appearantly NEVER handled a 1938 D8... according to their archives, neither have the other big two auction houses(whos names escape me).

i promised pictures... ill post the ones i took just before it got put into secure storage for two weeks... waiting for the shop to come available.

I'll have more questions as I travel this well traveled road.

I'll also post a list of parts that are missing in action, or the lack there of. ;-)

Edited May 3, 2014 by Chief Dodgie
p (see edit history)

[Guest Chief Dodgie]

what do you guys think? is that the pursuit blue? or one of the greys? or just the wrong color altogether?

also, the front bumper, as you can see in the images, is a little curved inward, equally left and right, at the front bumper guards. is that how it was manufactured? or am i looking at having to straighten that out.?

Edited May 3, 2014 by Chief Dodgie
p (see edit history)

[Guest Chief Dodgie]

What he wrote.

Some states used the engine number for registration purposes, if so they the ID on your paperwork would have started with D8 but as it is all digits it is most likely the serial number.

Serial numbers were allocated by engineering code and by assembly plant so you can tell where it was built and about how far through the production run it was. I've go a look up tool at http://www.ply33.com/Misc/vin that should have your numbers.

If you want to know what options it was shipped with, the dealer it was originally shipped to, etc. you can get the "build card" from Chrysler Historical: http://www.chryslergroupllc.com/company/Heritage/Pages/Build-Records.aspx

edit: About value, it seems that that era Chrysler product is undervalued compared to equivalent or even lesser quality cars from some other manufacturers. I suspect that is a result of a lack of reproduction parts like you have for Ford or Chevrolets.

In general mechanical parts are pretty easy to find as Chrysler engineers generally did a reasonable job and then kept the same design for a long time. For example, your oil pan gasket will fit all Plymouth and US built Dodge 6 cylinder car engines from '33 to '59. I get most of the parts I need to keep my '33 on the road at my local auto supply store. On the plus side of the good engineering done early and then kept in production for years is that your 30s Chrysler product, if in reasonable mechanical shape, will keep up with cars built a long time after they were.

Trim items are, however, a different kettle of fish. They usually changed every year and are often quite rare. In my opinion you are better off starting with a car with all the trim in good condition and shot mechanicals than the reverse.

That ply33 link... hows a plymouth truck vin website going to help me find out about my Dodge Brothers serial number?...

more coffee, then we'll talk

[avgwarhawk]

What a great looking car! I love tge look of the front clip.

[jpage]

Looks like a very nice car. While you don't see these everyday, they are not high dollar cars. I estimate this car in the $4,000-$6,000 range at max. Highly restored cars can bring more money but it takes quite alot of dough to do a high quality resto on these old Mopars unless it's very complete and in good condition. Even at that, these cars are not high demand cars. It appears from the photo, if in fact the paint is an original color, to be Dodge gunmetal gray. I would recommend getting the build card from the Chrysler Historical Society; it's not expensive and the card will give you some, maybe not all, of the original info. My card and accompanying info for my '36 even told me where it was shipped and what dealer originally sold it. I did, however find some discrepancies from the card to what is actually on the car! I'm told, as my car is still under restoration, that this era Mopar is a very dependable and a good driving car so get it running and have fun with it. Oh, be careful if you remove the bumpers. The original type "football" shaped stainless capped bumper bolts are unique to mid '30 Mopars and are NOT available new! There are some "dealers "out there selling what they deem to be "original" bolts but they are not; even used originals are very hard to find! Some owners will remove the damaged caps and have the face of the bolts chrome plated. Other makes used a similar bolt style but none will actually replace the Mopar bolts. Your bumper should be just a bar type bumper with the guards bolted in place. You should be able to bend the bumper cold but you may never get it quite the way it was. A good plater can repair and replate one that so that it looks like new , but I don't think that you want to go that far at this time. Looks to me as though your car has a sealed beam headlight adaptation. In '38 they still would have been a bulb type light. That car really does look complete and sound, a really good starting point!

Edited May 3, 2014 by jpage (see edit history)

[ply33]

That ply33 link... hows a plymouth truck vin website going to help me find out about my Dodge Brothers serial number?...

more coffee, then we'll talk

Site it focused on Plymouths but the look up tool/early VIN decoder box on the upper right of the page does all US built Chrysler product cars from 24 through 74 (sorry, no Dodge prior to Chrysler's purchase of Dodge in '28).

For what it is worth, originally what we sometimes call a humpback was called a touring sedan. The version without the trunk, sometimes now called a slope back, was just called a sedan. It might make a difference if you are looking for production number or sales information to see if the source is using the original names.

Edited May 3, 2014 by ply33 (see edit history)

[Guest Magoo]

Great car, love it!

[keiser31]

One of the good things about the car is that you still have the crankhole cover! VERY tough to find another and you may want to figure out a way to secure it to the car so as not to lose it.

[Guest Chief Dodgie]

Site it focused on Plymouths but the look up tool/early VIN decoder box on the upper right of the page does all US built Chrysler product cars from 24 through 74 (sorry, no Dodge prior to Chrysler's purchase of Dodge in '28).

For what it is worth, originally what we sometimes call a humpback was called a touring sedan. The version without the trunk, sometimes now called a slope back, was just called a sedan. It might make a difference if you are looking for production number or sales information to see if the source is using the original names.

... Touring sedan. i like it ...

the serial number plate is missing. how am i going to replace it?

further investigation into the history as told by the family survivors suggests that the second generation owner (grandfather) in his latter years, cleaned up the body some, and repainted it (Maaco style single shot). he did not remove anything. just tape off and shoot. the dents in the front fender are from being backed into by the 'father'... and there is a repair to the trunklid, very crude, where it seems the device that holds up the trunklid stuck closed... and in a fit of frustration, as was the 'grandfathers' way, it was forced up and open. breaking the hinge (replaced), the device that holds up the trunklid (not replaced), and the trunk lid handle (replaced). He was a large, hot tempered man. Im pretty sure my restoration skill can refurbish the crude patch, so one could not tell it ever happened

Pieces missing. after 29 years in the garage, and countless lookie-lou's, there are some items that are not found.

1: the heater face cover is the worst of it. ill attach a photo of one i found on the internet.

2: the center bumper guard on the rear bumper is missing. i'll attach an internet photo of what i believe it looks like.

3: the two devices that hold up the engine cover halves, they are missing as well. i cannot find a picture of what they look like. can anyone post a picture for me? so i know what im looking for.

4: all the glass is cracked. it will need replacing.

5: the skinny rings that hold the sealed beam headlight bulbs to the buckets are rusted pretty severely. they will need replacing.

6: the gear shift knob i not correct. at all. i dont know what the proper one looks like either. anyone have a picture?

7: the posts that the wiper arms connect and attach to are twisted off. both of them. they will need replacing as well.

Thank you all for your input! i couldn't have learned the details you've all shared here easily, anywhere else.

I am with you guys. The tiny rust holes, im going to remediate the rust, treat and touch up. drive it like is. though, the interior will need to be redone to properly enjoy. i dont think that will take away from its 'original' signature'.

[Guest Chief Dodgie]

One of the good things about the car is that you still have the crankhole cover! VERY tough to find another and you may want to figure out a way to secure it to the car so as not to lose it.

sound advice. i was thinking the same thing. so i went to where it is stored, pulled it off, and put it in my safe.

[Guest Chief Dodgie]

If your car has a hump style trunk on the back, there were 73,417 built. If the back has no hump, 714 were built. If it is a 7-passenger style, 1,953 were built. The serial number should be on the door jamb and should have 7 or 8 numbers.

there are only six digits on the registration, and the serial plate was removed and never reinstalled. any clue what i should do about that? It will have to be inspected by state patrol before it can be registered, i imagine they will establish its identity by looking on the frame. does anyone know where that frame stamp is on this vehicle?

[keiser31]

there are only six digits on the registration, and the serial plate was removed and never reinstalled. any clue what i should do about that? It will have to be inspected by state patrol before it can be registered, i imagine they will establish its identity by looking on the frame. does anyone know where that frame stamp is on this vehicle?

Just a suggestion....do ALL of the paperwork and registration BEFORE doing anything to the car. I have seen where someone will restore a car only to not have the paperwork done correctly and lose the car to a previous owner.

[Guest Henry White]

Does anyone else think the front bumper curves down in the center? Much like a 39 or 40 Dodge front bumper. Maybe it's just a tropical delusion but it looks like it dips in the center.

Crankhole covers are very rare, ALL chrome on the car is rare. Stick with the sealed beams, and I hope you have the hubcaps. Dont trust any chrome to an ametuer, or anyone else. 25 years ago I recall selling NIB grilles and NOS hood rams for the 38's. Unobtainium today. I had a 38 "touring sedan" once.

[jpage]

According to my Motor's manual , the serial number for '38 should fall between 30001001 - 30100001. New original type serial number plates are available but you'll have to stamp your own number on it. Are the body and patent tags there! Someone may have used the body number for the registration. Does the number on the registration match any other number you can see, like the engine number? The original frame number is probably going to be very difficult to find. They have been found on the top of the frame member or on the side near the rear front spring mount. There can be several numbers stamped on ares of the frame that are not the serial number. The body number may read D8 xxxxxx TS. Sometimes these digits are not stamped very deep and can be hard to see. Why does your car have to be inspected before registration. If the title is good and clear it should just transfer over. In PA I've never had to have a car verified that had a clear title. I'm not sure if '38's had any hood supports. I think that most of these hoods just fold over onto itself. On my '36 there is a steel bracket riveted to the center hood hinge that keeps the hood side from coming in contact with the top when folded but the tops just lie on one another. You're probably going to have trouble finding the headlamp rims as most of these were part of an adaptation kit. Who knows what brand of kit was installed or when; you may have to purchase a new kit to get parts that match. Sealed beams were not factory until '39.

Edited May 3, 2014 by jpage (see edit history)

[Mark Simmons]

Am I seeing double or does thing have a dual tailpipe on it ? My aunt had a car I believe the same year as this and I do not remember 2 tailpipes on it. I agree with everything said about going through the mechanical systems on this car and then just drive it and enjoy it. Correct paint or not she's winner.

[keiser31]

Does anyone else think the front bumper curves down in the center? Much like a 39 or 40 Dodge front bumper. Maybe it's just a tropical delusion but it looks like it dips in the center.

Crankhole covers are very rare, ALL chrome on the car is rare. Stick with the sealed beams, and I hope you have the hubcaps. Dont trust any chrome to an ametuer, or anyone else. 25 years ago I recall selling NIB grilles and NOS hood rams for the 38's. Unobtainium today. I had a 38 "touring sedan" once.

To me, it looks more like the bumper bulges forward in the center.

[Joe Cocuzza]

Seems that the front bumper is fine and as it should be - check here: http://www.cheersandgears.com/topic/77618-for-sale-1938-dodge-brothers-d8-sedan/

[Guest Chief Dodgie]

Just a suggestion....do ALL of the paperwork and registration BEFORE doing anything to the car. I have seen where someone will restore a car only to not have the paperwork done correctly and lose the car to a previous owner.

the previous owner has moved off this rock, I doubt there will be a dispute.

good advice however.

[Guest Chief Dodgie]

Looks like a very nice car. While you don't see these everyday, they are not high dollar cars. I estimate this car in the $4,000-$6,000 range at max. Highly restored cars can bring more money but it takes quite alot of dough to do a high quality resto on these old Mopars unless it's very complete and in good condition. Even at that, these cars are not high demand cars. It appears from the photo, if in fact the paint is an original color, to be Dodge gunmetal gray. I would recommend getting the build card from the Chrysler Historical Society; it's not expensive and the card will give you some, maybe not all, of the original info. My card and accompanying info for my '36 even told me where it was shipped and what dealer originally sold it. I did, however find some discrepancies from the card to what is actually on the car! I'm told, as my car is still under restoration, that this era Mopar is a very dependable and a good driving car so get it running and have fun with it. Oh, be careful if you remove the bumpers. The original type "football" shaped stainless capped bumper bolts are unique to mid '30 Mopars and are NOT available new! There are some "dealers "out there selling what they deem to be "original" bolts but they are not; even used originals are very hard to find! Some owners will remove the damaged caps and have the face of the bolts chrome plated. Other makes used a similar bolt style but none will actually replace the Mopar bolts. Your bumper should be just a bar type bumper with the guards bolted in place. You should be able to bend the bumper cold but you may never get it quite the way it was. A good plater can repair and replate one that so that it looks like new , but I don't think that you want to go that far at this time. Looks to me as though your car has a sealed beam headlight adaptation. In '38 they still would have been a bulb type light. That car really does look complete and sound, a really good starting point!

wow, thamk you for the heads up on those bumper bolts. i wouldnt have guessed til it was too late! THANK YOU!

[Guest Chief Dodgie]

According to my Motor's manual , the serial number for '38 should fall between 30001001 - 30100001. New original type serial number plates are available but you'll have to stamp your own number on it. Are the body and patent tags there! Someone may have used the body number for the registration. Does the number on the registration match any other number you can see, like the engine number? The original frame number is probably going to be very difficult to find. They have been found on the top of the frame member or on the side near the rear front spring mount. There can be several numbers stamped on ares of the frame that are not the serial number. The body number may read D8 xxxxxx TS. Sometimes these digits are not stamped very deep and can be hard to see. Why does your car have to be inspected before registration. If the title is good and clear it should just transfer over. In PA I've never had to have a car verified that had a clear title. I'm not sure if '38's had any hood supports. I think that most of these hoods just fold over onto itself. On my '36 there is a steel bracket riveted to the center hood hinge that keeps the hood side from coming in contact with the top when folded but the tops just lie on one another. You're probably going to have trouble finding the headlamp rims as most of these were part of an adaptation kit. Who knows what brand of kit was installed or when; you may have to purchase a new kit to get parts that match. Sealed beams were not factory until '39.

there are two tags on the firewall... only one bares stamped digits. D8-XXXXTS

then there is a number stamped in the firewall itself, in rather large digits: D1xxx5

no other numbers found yet, except i could read the beginning of the digits on the engine head boss, it indeed reads D8-xx??

the engine was rebuilt by the grandfather as im told... the odometer reads 24,xxx miles. honestly i have no clue of its rolled over once or not. but after 76 years, it would not suprise me. It is remarkable how little rust there is on this fine example.

Any vehicle in WA has to be inspected by state patrol if it hasn't been registered since the BIG CHANGE OVER in DOL's computer systems.

The hood has pins factory spot welded to the hood half under bracing, and there are two bolt holes through the firewall lip that definitely look stamped, not drilled. certainly there was a factory hood support here. i'll keep looking.

[Guest Chief Dodgie]

Am I seeing double or does thing have a dual tailpipe on it ? My aunt had a car I believe the same year as this and I do not remember 2 tailpipes on it. I agree with everything said about going through the mechanical systems on this car and then just drive it and enjoy it. Correct paint or not she's winner.

hilarious! i saw that too, i peeked under the car to find likely the crudest exhaust system ive seen yet. the son used this vehicle in the early eighties to run back and forth to high school. in his youthful insanity, he managed to "t" off the existing exhaust to create this chrome abomination out the rear of the car... using a license plate, baling wire, and screws to fasten together bits and pieces of exhaust pipe. He also painted the air cleaner Bright Metallic Purple, the coil Metallic Blue, and the Coil mount some kind of maroon. I found Bicycle relfectors attached to the cars undercarriage, and aftermarket trailer turnsignal indicators mounted behind the grill. there were two cassette decks in the vehicle, i doubt either of them were 6 volt... which makes me think i got to see wether this vehicle has been converted to 12v.

strangley, the car was never drilled, or cut, or altered . its still there.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Chief Dodgie
sp (see edit history)

[Guest Chief Dodgie]

Seems that the front bumper is fine and as it should be - check here: http://www.cheersandgears.com/topic/77618-for-sale-1938-dodge-brothers-d8-sedan/

ah yes, very good Joe! i was wondering, the center bumper guard on my D8... ive seen three different examples on 38' D8's, were these vintage aftermarket items?

[Guest Chief Dodgie]

This D8 also came with a 4x8 trailer load of parts. Im still rummaging through them all... not all of them are d8 parts. I think i will post pictures of these parts in the coming days.

[jpage]

That large number stamped on the firewall is a part or assembly ID number. You'll find several of those type numbers stamped into different parts. Does any number that you see match the number on your title?

[Guest Chief Dodgie]

That large number stamped on the firewall is a part or assembly ID number. You'll find several of those type numbers stamped into different parts. Does any number that you see match the number on your title?

nope...title vin is a six digit numerical figure. im going to look around the frame with a mirror and see if i can find it.

[Guest Chief Dodgie]

I've been calling all over the country looking for that interior heater grill i posted a picture of earlier in this thread. no joy.

any suggestions as to who might have one available would be greatly appreciated.

also, does anyone have photos of the radio components to this d8? I suspect its like nothing I've ever seen before.

[Guest Chief Dodgie]

here are some of the things i've found in the parts that came with the D-8. some, if not most, arent Dodge parts, im guessing. feel free to expound on the identification of an item if you happen to know what it is, and what it goes to.

[Guest Chief Dodgie]

[Guest Chief Dodgie]

[Guest Chief Dodgie]

[Guest Chief Dodgie]