rapidride2 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) 1952 Buick Roadmaster front brake shoes. I'm rebuilding entire brake system. I'm using bendix r127 shoes on the front. They have been described as bonded. .However I've received 2 sets of older r127 shoes that are riveted. Bonded vs riveted? Will the rivets wear/score my buick front drums? Or will they wear with the shoe giving an audible sound warning to replace the shoes. I was thinking bonded due to today's technology of adhesives, slightly longer shoe life, and less chance of a rivet scoring the drum.I called bendix they said their r127 shoes are now all bonded and that I must be receiving older stock. Problem is, I can't begin to get bonded shoes sent to me until the middle of May. I just wanna do this the right way.Opinions, options, advice? Thanks. Matt. Edited April 25, 2014 by rapidride2 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Where I live the modern bonded shoes tend to be more softer than the older rivetted stuff. The softer shoes have more grip but wear away quicker.This also means the drum does not suffer the same wear as the with using the older rivet linings. Cheaper to replace shoes than drums.I can't be definative about the audible sound, but the rivets although made of brass will cut into the drum surface somewhat if continued to be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick man Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 (edited) My advice is to go the rivet route. Why? First off, the bonded brake shoe linings are harder not softer than the rivet linings. So this softer material allows the shoe linings to conform better to your existing drums and also dissipate heat better. The bonded linings have a unique tendency to hard and glaze due to inferior heat transfer. There have been many posts here and elsewhere regarding the wrath of the bonded shoe. There are guys out there that specifically install rivet liner replacements onto your existing shoes. Just do a search. Secondly, the rivet scoring concerns your having regarding the chances of scoring the inner drum is slim to nil. Because a lot of miles have to be put on a set of shoe linings before you are going to wear them to that extend. Also having grown up during the "brake drum era" you could always both feel and hear when the brake pads were just starting to go as the brake pedal would tell you this before your ears did. if you replaced the brakes at that moment then all was well and you would not need to turn the drums and would only need to turn the drums once every other shoe replacement. Remember, you need to invest a little more inspection maintenance time with shoed cars than with rotors and calipers. It does not take much time annually to take the tire off and pull the drum and inspect the shoes and inner drums for wear. If it is the front brakes you are checking take the rubber adjustment cover off of wheel hub back plate, take your brake adjusting tool and back off the shoes via spinning the star tensioner wheel. Then take wheel dust grease cap off, the cotter key and nut off of the spline shaft and pull the entire wheel/tire/drum and all off with one pull for inspection. Then replace in reverse. Once the wheel is back on, tighten the hub nut down to a solid stop then back off nut a 1/4 turn and put the cotter key back and the dust grease cap. To adjust the brake shoes, spin the tire by hand and start adjusting the shoe tensioner until you hear the shoes begin to chirp then slide on the inside of the drums all while the tire is still spinning. Then reinstall the rubber seal and your done. With the rear wheels you only need to remove the bolts and usually a slotted retainer set to get the entire drum and wheel off at the same time after loosening the shoe tensioner. Edited May 6, 2014 by buick man (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 +1 for Rivited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Once the wheel is back on, tighten the hub nut down to a solid stop then back off nut a 1/4 turn and put the cotter key back and the dust grease cap. To adjust the brake shoes, spin the tire by hand and start adjusting the shoe tensioner until you hear the shoes begin to chirp then slide on the inside of the drums all while the tire is still spinning. .See your service manual for your car...it has adjustment procedures. Ball bearings on a 52 would need some preload. New shoes may need to be adjusted every 100 miles for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidride2 Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) I went riveted. The ENTIRE brake system will be rebuilt. Including stainless pre - formed brake lines in which I was leery about but fit surprisingly well. Apple hydraulics rebuilt the wheel and master cylinders. All new spring kits along with a cosmetic refinish of everything I've touched on the brake system. I will follow the manual regarding future adjustments. Thanks guys! Edited May 7, 2014 by rapidride2 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I too went with riveted shoes. Denver Brake and Clutch did my original shoes and they also relined my clutch plate. VERY GOOD people.........Just got my M/C and wheel cylinders relined with 304 stainless tubing by Karp's in Calif. They look GREAT........... Kits from Bob's and she's back on the road with confidence.............My $ .02.....Mike in Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick man Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Good to hear it guys. Now go out and "brake" the sound barrier ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidride2 Posted May 18, 2014 Author Share Posted May 18, 2014 So far my checks have been as follows: I measured the new and old shoes and they were the same. I pulled the drum off approximately 3/4" and it still drug. This told me it's nit the width of the shoe hitting the inside of the drum. It is rubbing oh so lightly on the top side of both shoes near the anchor pin. There are no signs of any scuffing on the bottom side of each shoe (near the adjuster) I'm wondering if I shouldn't lightly scuff the small areas where it is rubbing? Brake shoe contouring is a lost art in my area. I haven't tried the other drum as of yet as I am still waiting on a wheel bearing to come In this week. I plan on still doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 The lining on the shoes should be different lengths with the shorter installed toward the front of the car. Most shoes are beveled on the ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Shop manual outlines the procedure to adjust the anchor pin, maybe you should try that. If that doesn't fix it, re-adjust after problem is identified and corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidride2 Posted May 18, 2014 Author Share Posted May 18, 2014 As of now until get the other wheel bearing in the mail for the other side to try the other drum for fit I have it now to where I can turn the tire/wheel/drum with one hand wrapped around the tread of the narrow bias ply. It's not easy to do with one hand but I no longer have to 'hug' tire/wheel combo and turn with 2 hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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