Please help with 1925 info!

[Guest Clarabelled]

Hello,

I am researching a novel set in 1925 and want to make sure to get the automobile information as correct as possible. I have several specific questions and would be very grateful for any assistance anyone can provide. If these questions seem silly, I apologize! My knowledge of antique cars does not extend much beyond admiring them.

1. How did cars built in 1925 start? Electric start, crank? How did these work?

2. Did cars require keys to either start the ignition or lock the doors?

3. What are the distinguishing and/or most notable features of 1925 cars?

4. What was a mid-range but fancy car from 1925 that a successful, tough single male might drive? I am thinking a Chrysler 6.

5. What is regarded as the most luxurious model?

6. The most basic model?

7. Were speedometers viewable to a rider in the passenger seat? Were they called speedometers?

8. What was the top speed a well built car could achieve?

thanks so much for your help! I feel these are very important details to get right and this forum seems to be filled with knowledgable people. Any help is greatly appreciated!

[scott12180]

I'll let others correct my mistakes, but here's my opinion:

>>1. How did cars built in 1925 start? Electric start, crank? How did these work?

By 1925 all cars had electric start. Ford still has crank-only as an option but I doubt many were sold without electric start.

The mechanism was mostly similar to what we have today --- a separate starter working on a ring ear on the flywheel, plus a separate generator to recharge the battery. They operation of the starter was a little different than today in that the ignition key energized the circuit, but to actuate the starter you needed to then step on a heavy switch on the floor somewhere --- probably near the gas pedal.

>>2. Did cars require keys to either start the ignition or lock the doors?

Yes, by 1925 all cars had keys for both. Except open cars, of course.

Some cars did not have a separate key for the ignition --- that was just a switch. In that case they might have had a lock on the transmission instead.

>>3. What are the distinguishing and/or most notable features of 1925 cars?

1925 was the start of the "classic" era, a period of really distinctive styling. But this appears only on the more expensive cars at first. What you would have seen on the road was a mix of utilitarian cars (homely but functional) and a few really handsome bigger cars with nickle-plated radiator shells and flowing body lines.

>>4. What was a mid-range but fancy car from 1925 that a successful, tough single male might drive? I am thinking a Chrysler 6.

Mid range cars would have been like a Buick, Cadillac (upper mid-range), Studebaker. Chrysler began in 1925 with a 1926 model (I think), so you probably would not have seen many on the road in 1925. If you want your tough single minded individual to drive an interesting car, I'd recommend a Franklin. They were 6-cylinder air cooled and noted for many technical innovations, yet were not too common. It was once said that if you walked into a bar or restaurant back in the day, you could usually spot the Franklin owner. They were independent-minded people who did not follow someone else's drum beat very much. The cars were not fast nor powerful relativity, but they were noted as being the fastest cars over the roads of the day due to a unique chassis and suspension --- wood frame and full elliptic springs.

>> 5. What is regarded as the most luxurious model?

Probably Pierce Arrow, although lots of very low production cars were around which were considered luxury models.

>>6. The most basic model?

The Model T Ford was still the bread-and-butter car, but Chevrolet was rapidly gaining ground in terms of sales. Model T's were everywhere and would be a significant part of any city scape or seen on virtually every road in the country.

>> 7. Were speedometers viewable to a rider in the passenger seat? Were they called speedometers?

You mean the back seat? If so, yes. Occasionally you could have that. As far as I know, they were still called speedometers. A speedometer would have been visible to a passenger in the front seat as most were mounted on the dash board sort of in the middle.

>>8. What was the top speed a well built car could achieve?

Packard, a well built car, could go 60 mph without much trouble. Higher speeds were attainable but would have been hard to achieve due to road conditions. Most people drove about 35 mph.

--Scott

[Guest Clarabelled]

Scott,

Thank you so much. This is terrific info and exactly what I was hoping to learn. The Franklin sounds like the perfect car for my character to drive. Now off to Google an image!

Cheers!

I'll let others correct my mistakes, but here's my opinion:

>>1. How did cars built in 1925 start? Electric start, crank? How did these work?

By 1925 all cars had electric start. Ford still has crank-only as an option but I doubt many were sold without electric start.

The mechanism was mostly similar to what we have today --- a separate starter working on a ring ear on the flywheel, plus a separate generator to recharge the battery. They operation of the starter was a little different than today in that the ignition key energized the circuit, but to actuate the starter you needed to then step on a heavy switch on the floor somewhere --- probably near the gas pedal.

>>2. Did cars require keys to either start the ignition or lock the doors?

Yes, by 1925 all cars had keys for both. Except open cars, of course.

Some cars did not have a separate key for the ignition --- that was just a switch. In that case they might have had a lock on the transmission instead.

>>3. What are the distinguishing and/or most notable features of 1925 cars?

1925 was the start of the "classic" era, a period of really distinctive styling. But this appears only on the more expensive cars at first. What you would have seen on the road was a mix of utilitarian cars (homely but functional) and a few really handsome bigger cars with nickle-plated radiator shells and flowing body lines.

>>4. What was a mid-range but fancy car from 1925 that a successful, tough single male might drive? I am thinking a Chrysler 6.

Mid range cars would have been like a Buick, Cadillac (upper mid-range), Studebaker. Chrysler began in 1925 with a 1926 model (I think), so you probably would not have seen many on the road in 1925. If you want your tough single minded individual to drive an interesting car, I'd recommend a Franklin. They were 6-cylinder air cooled and noted for many technical innovations, yet were not too common. It was once said that if you walked into a bar or restaurant back in the day, you could usually spot the Franklin owner. They were independent-minded people who did not follow someone else's drum beat very much. The cars were not fast nor powerful relativity, but they were noted as being the fastest cars over the roads of the day due to a unique chassis and suspension --- wood frame and full elliptic springs.

>> 5. What is regarded as the most luxurious model?

Probably Pierce Arrow, although lots of very low production cars were around which were considered luxury models.

>>6. The most basic model?

The Model T Ford was still the bread-and-butter car, but Chevrolet was rapidly gaining ground in terms of sales. Model T's were everywhere and would be a significant part of any city scape or seen on virtually every road in the country.

>> 7. Were speedometers viewable to a rider in the passenger seat? Were they called speedometers?

You mean the back seat? If so, yes. Occasionally you could have that. As far as I know, they were still called speedometers. A speedometer would have been visible to a passenger in the front seat as most were mounted on the dash board sort of in the middle.

>>8. What was the top speed a well built car could achieve?

Packard, a well built car, could go 60 mph without much trouble. Higher speeds were attainable but would have been hard to achieve due to road conditions. Most people drove about 35 mph.

--Scott

[Rusty_OToole]

Pretty well all cars had electric start. In case of starter or battery failure they had a crank that could be stuck into the front of the car, and start the motor by hand.

Most had keys for doors and/or ignition. More than half the cars on the road were open touring or roadster bodies, of course there was no need for door locks on those.

Cars were not standardized as much as they are today. Some had a lock on the transmission (locked in neutral when parked) others had a key in the dash board. Starters were often operated by stepping on a button on the floor, or by a switch on the steering wheel or dash board, or by pressing a button. The starter worked by the ignition key, had not been invented yet.

By 1925 cars were accepted as a practical, everyday means of transportation. Makers emphasized practical virtues, closed cars (sedans and coupes) were replacing open cars, and cars were marketed to women, or as family transportation. Some makes went against this trend, like Jordan who emphasized fun and adventure, or Auburn who emphasized style and luxury at a price.

What was a mid-range but fancy car from 1925 that a successful, tough single male might drive? I am thinking a Chrysler 6.

Chrysler six would be a good choice. They were at the leading edge of automotive progress and a good performer. Also Hudson, a powerful and fast medium priced car. I already mentioned the flashy Auburn. If you went on to 1926, he might buy one of the new, low slung Safety Stutz sedans with the overhead cam straight eight engine, but this was an expensive car in the Cadillac or Packard class. Cadillac was a popular choice with guys from the wrong side of the tracks, like bootleggers and gangsters. Packard was a more respectable make. LaSalle was a lower priced Cadillac companion with a lot of Cadillac in it.

Another car from 1925 that is forgotten now, is the Rickenbacker. Built by Amerca's top WW1 flying ace, Eddie Rickenbacker. They made fancy expensive six cylinder cars, and added a straight eight in 1925. Your hero might well drive a Rickenbacker if he could afford one.

America's top luxury car was Pierce Arrow, a real limousine for tycoons and millionaires. Pierce Arrow was the official White House limousine. Carlo Ponzi had 2 Pierce Arrows and a stone built mansion in a Boston suburb when he was busted for the biggest financial fraud case of the twenties. If you preferred an imported car, Rolls Royce was in the Pierce class for quality but a little smaller and cheaper.

In addition to their "48" for the chauffeur driven trade, they made a smaller "80" model for the owner who drove his own car. This "small" Pierce was about the size of a Cadillac. The big 48 limousine or sedan was like a small bus.

The most basic car was the Model T Ford. It had been around since 1908 and was by far the most common car. Some years, Ford sold as many cars as all other makes combined. You could buy a Ford for under $500 brand new. I believe the all time low was $275 FOB Detroit, for a 1923 roadster with no accessories.

Chevrolet would sell you a little nicer car, for a little more money. The low priced 4 cylinder Essex from Hudson was the first car to offer a closed car for the price of a basic touring, the Essex Coach. It sold like hot cakes and caused a considerable stir in the auto industry. It led the trend to closed cars. This breakthrough took place in 1921, but in 1925 the Essex was still one of the most popular cars. Another low price car was the Whippet, a snappy looking car that was easy on gas but would not stand up to fast driving. This was not obvious at first, but in a few years they got a bad reputation and faded out of the picture.

Speedometers were common on all cars except Model T. They were visible from the passenger seat. You should ride in a 1925 car and find out just how narrow they are.

Top speed, Model T, 45 MPH. A medium priced six cylinder car like Chrysler, Hudson, or Auburn, 70 - 75. Chrysler actually named their cars for their top speed. the 4 cylinder 58, the six cylinder 60, 70 and Imperial 80, those were all the top speed. Similar cars had similar top speeds. Cadillac, Pierce Arrow, Stutz, around 80 or 85.

You have to take into consideration not only the cars but also the tires and the road conditions. There were no highways as we know them. Very few paved roads outside of cities. Most roads were dirt or gravel, much narrower, twistier and hillier than we are used to today. There has been an immense amount of money spent on improving roads in the last 80 or 90 years.

Typical road speed, 25 or 30. 50 MPH was considered very fast. "Going like 60" or "going a mile a minute" was race car stuff, something to brag about if you and your car could do it. Anything faster than that could only be indulged in for a short time, if the road permitted and weather was perfect.

I'm trying to remember a quote from "Flaming Youth" a sensational novel of the twenties. Imagine a couple at a dance, high on bootleg gin, necking in a roadster in the parking lot, jazz band in the background, syncopated wailing of the saxophone "Say baby how would you like to take a 50 mile an hour dip in the landscape? The little boat will go some".

Edited March 2, 2014 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

Just some details to go with the above replies. The Model T starter switch was activated with your left heel depressing the floor switch just in front of the seat riser. Franklins had great steering boxes, they were box to use in dirt track race cars all the way up into the early 1950's. For the most part cars in 1925 had two wheel brakes, a flat tire was replaced with another tire and rim, the wheel stayed on the car. Dodge Brothers cars were a step or two above a Ford in the 1920's. Bob

[Guest Clarabelled]

Rusty,

Thank you, thank you! Terrific info. I have read about the Hudson, and will look into that. I'm loving seeing all these gorgeous cars. To think that people actually got to drive around in them! The Flaming Youth quote is excellent. I have a copy of it on my bookshelf, right next to Unforbidden Fruit, another Walter Fabian novel.

Thanks again!

[Guest Clarabelled]

Thank you, Bob! More great info. Now if only I could figure out a way to ride in one of these!

[Rusty_OToole]

Re: Franklin. They made a high quality car that was an excellent over the road performer even though it had less power and lower top speed than some rivals. They emphasized their air cooled engine, light weight design, and advanced spring suspension and chassis that gave a superior ride and handling qualities.

Franklins appealed to engineers and men with a technical or mechanical background. If you did not understand it technical merits, and went by its rather bland, old fashioned appearance, its appeal would be lost to you.

Franklin owners were a breed of their own. A popular author remarked that you might see a Franklin man driving a Buick, but you would never see a Buick man in a Franklin. Even though both were similar size and priced cars.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[nzcarnerd]

A couple more details. Chrysler's first car appeared as a 1924 model so your hero could possibly have one. Regarding top speeds the average driving speed was much lower than today because most roads were not paved. Even though many cars could exceed 60 mph they were more often driven at 25-35. Cars were generally geared such that they could climb most slopes in top gear which limited their top speed, unlike today when cars have such tall gearing that they can loaf along at quite low revs at highway speed but it is usually impossible for them to achieve their theoretical top speed. This is only one of the many reasons why today's cars should go for hundreds of thousands of miles with only regular oil changes and basic maintenance whereas 1925 cars, which often did not even have an air cleaner or oil filter, would often be worn out well before 100,000 miles. A very much over-generalisation but it is true that they "don't build 'em like they use'ter" which is just as well as today's cars do not need to spend as much time in the shop as they did back then.

[1937hd45]

Interesting stuff about Franklin owners. A local car guy in his early 90's now had a Franklin early on in his life, he went on to become a very sucessful engineer. Don't know if all Franklins leaked oil or not, but his leaked enough to be banned from use in Westport, Ct. He keep a spair cylinder in the trunk, in the event one went bad. In 1924 Franklin set the Cross Country Record of 3,720 miles in 13 days. 1925 saw the introduction of the Causse styled Series 11 with the false radiator and Lion radiator cap. Bob

Edited March 2, 2014 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

About starting a 1925 car. Until someone who owns one shows up, it went something like this. Remember, there were differences in controls for starter, key, etc depending on what make of car you had.

1) Make sure transmission is in neutral

2) Pull out choke and throttle. Amount you pull them out, depends on how cold it is out, whether the engine is warm or cold. If the engine is warmed up and has been run within the last half hour or hour, no choke or throttle necessary.

3) Step on starter button. Engine should turn over once or twice and start. This assumes engine is in good shape and car fairly new.

4) Adjust throttle and choke for a smooth idle. Let the motor warm up for a minute.

5) Step on clutch, shift into gear, release hand brake, release clutch and drive off. Push throttle button all the way in. Push choke in as soon as engine is warm, and will take gas without stalling. In very cold weather you may need to leave the choke on a little.

Fords had their own system with hand throttle and pedal operated transmission, but the above would do for most other cars. Remembering that there were variations in controls, and even gearshift patterns.

[Rusty_OToole]

Another thing easy to overlook. Cars in 1925 had no heaters. Many were open tourings or roadsters with a canvas top and no windows. So you had to dress as though you were going to walk. This meant hat, scarf, gloves, and warm overcoat if the weather was cold.

[Rusty_OToole]

An old story comes to mind. This was from a guy who enjoyed fast driving in the twenties, an early hot rodder if you will.

He told me that where he lived, Michigan or Indiana I think, they used to smooth the roads with a road grader. It did one side of the road with each pass and when they were done, it left a ridge of gravel piled in the middle of the road. Passing traffic would scatter the gravel and spread it across the road again.

It was great to drive on a freshly graded road, it was smooth with no pot holes and you could let the old bus out. One day he was driving along with the throttle to the floor when a wagon pulled out of a side road. When he went to pass, the left tires hit the ridge of gravel and pulled the car to the left so hard it rolled over.

He got away with no more than a few scrapes and bruises but the car was wrecked.

Maybe you can use it.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

Not sure what you mean by a successful, tough, single male. If he was in a business that required a lot of car travel in rugged conditions, a Dodge or Ford would be the car of choice.

Watch this film to see why.

Dodge cars were used by the military because they were tough. Fords were suited to tough going, were cheap, and could be found everywhere. Dodge was a better, more expensive car than a Ford.

[Rusty_OToole]

If you meant the most luxurious model vs the most basic model within one make of car.

The cheapest, most basic model was the roadster, an open 2 seater. Also the lightest, sportiest style. A touring was a little more money but outsold the roadster because it was more practical and had more room for passengers or baggage. Many makers sold a touring with a fixed top that could not be folded down, this was their best transportation bargain.

Closed cars like coupes and sedans cost more than open cars. Prior to 1920, a lot more. Like, $1000 for a touring car vs $1500 to $2000 for a sedan. By 1925 this premium was narrowing. I already mentioned the Essex coach that sold for the price of a touring car. You can see why it became a best seller, even though it looked like a packing case on wheels.

Among closed cars, a coupe would be cheapest. A 5 passenger sedan next. Most makes also offered a 7 passenger sedan for more money. They had a longer body with room between the front and back seat for a pair of folding jump seats. This would be the most expensive body style.

If you wanted to go to a coach builder and order a one of a kind, custom body the sky was the limit. There were dozens of custom body companies in 1925 who could accommodate you, mostly in the east and the mid west. They turned out thousands of bodies each year. Even so, less than 1 percent of all cars had custom bodies, even the expensive makes. They were seldom seen outside of big cities.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[PFindlay]

Thank you, Bob! More great info. Now if only I could figure out a way to ride in one of these!

It wouldn't surprise me if there was someone in your area with a mid-twenties car who would be happy to show you. You may want to provide your city and see who steps up.

Peter

Burnaby, BC, Canada

[Rusty_OToole]

If you wait a few months the car show season will be upon us. Attend some outdoor shows and I am sure you can examine, sit in and ride in cars of the twenties. If you ask politely and seem sensible.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

It might be better to set your novel in 28 or 29,that would greatly expand your field of cars especially Fords. Technology had improved greatly and many more cars survived. You could still incorporate the roaring 20s and prohibition or maybe work in a depression theme.

[sambarn]

Clarabelled, Where are you? Let's get you in a car and experience it. I'm SO glad you are taking the time to get it right!!! As far as starting the cars go, most cars of the mid twenties ran with the Stewart Warner style vacuum fuel tank. a system using vacuum from the engine to pull gas from the tank to a small cowl mounted tank. From there, gravity pulled it down to the carb. When a driver left a car for very long, he would open the side of the hood thatthe tank was on (depends on make) and rotate a small valve on the bottom of the tank, keeping the gas from flowing out of the carb while it sits. This means before starting in the morning, he would have to open the hood and open the valve. The gas in the small tank would let the car start to create vacuum and pull more gas up. Forgetting this would often leave the contets on a puddle under the car and the system would have to be primed, requiring a can of gas, funnel and wrenches to open the canister top (three different wrenches). As far as the car goes, I think you might want to consider Marmon. They had an excellent reputation for performance, longevity and style. Muscle and luxury combined. Come on down to Alabama and we'll roadtest a couple of twenties marques. BTW ALL of these cars require double clutching to compensate for straight cut gears and few had four wheel brakes. usually ust on the rear. Hope this helps. -Sam

[Guest Clarabelled]

So many cars to choose from! It seems like there were so many car making companies in the 20s. I read somewhere that in '29 five million cars were sold, not to be repeated until '49. Amazing. Wish I could make it to Alabama for a ride, but sadly I am stuck in snowy New York. I will try to get to a car show and at least sit in one, if possible. Thanks for this info!

Clarabelled, Where are you? Let's get you in a car and experience it. I'm SO glad you are taking the time to get it right!!! As far as starting the cars go, most cars of the mid twenties ran with the Stewart Warner style vacuum fuel tank. a system using vacuum from the engine to pull gas from the tank to a small cowl mounted tank. From there, gravity pulled it down to the carb. When a driver left a car for very long, he would open the side of the hood thatthe tank was on (depends on make) and rotate a small valve on the bottom of the tank, keeping the gas from flowing out of the carb while it sits. This means before starting in the morning, he would have to open the hood and open the valve. The gas in the small tank would let the car start to create vacuum and pull more gas up. Forgetting this would often leave the contets on a puddle under the car and the system would have to be primed, requiring a can of gas, funnel and wrenches to open the canister top (three different wrenches). As far as the car goes, I think you might want to consider Marmon. They had an excellent reputation for performance, longevity and style. Muscle and luxury combined. Come on down to Alabama and we'll roadtest a couple of twenties marques. BTW ALL of these cars require double clutching to compensate for straight cut gears and few had four wheel brakes. usually ust on the rear. Hope this helps. -Sam

[Guest Clarabelled]

Huge thanks to everyone who responded to my questions. This is an incredibly knowledgable group! I now have no excuse not to be accurate with my car and driving descriptions. I'm also dying to see some of these in person, so a show is definitely in my future.

One final question: how hard or easy was it to drive a car from the era? How long might it take a person, not particularly mechanically inclined, to learn to drive? What might trip up a novice driver?

thanks again for taking the time to so thoughtfully answer.

[dictator27]

As an example of a car of the twenties, this is the staring procedure for my 27 Studebaker Dictator. It isn't just turning a key. It requires both hands and both feet.

Left foot depressing clutch pedal

Left hand to pull out choke. All cars of the twenties had updraft carburettors and many needed a little choke even when warm.

With right hand move throttle lever (on steering wheel) up about one quarter of its travel, push dash mounted spark lever down almost to its lowest position, turn steering column mounted key to unlock steering column (yes they had locking steering columns then) and turn ignition toggle switch on.

With right foot step on the starter button.

When engine starts, push choke in until engine runs smoothly on the partly open hand throttle.

After a minute or so, close hand throttle and advance spark lever. You're ready to go.

Terry

[nzcarnerd]

The most significant thing about driving a car of the 1920s is that there is no power assistance for anything and no automatic transmission. The manual gearbox has no synchromesh so required some skill to change gear, hence one of the reasons why they have low overall gearing which allowed them to be driven mostly in top gear. This was one of the reasons why the Ford T was so successful for so long as it did not require the skill of correctly meshing gears.

Other less important but still noticeable things are no direction indicators and no sun visor and in many cases no windshield wiper. Tyres would puncture frequently as they weren't as well built as today and there were still plenty of horses on the road dropping horse shoe nails.

Another point - no adjustable seats. If you were too small to reach the pedals you put a cushion behind you. The first adjustable front seat was in the 1929 Buick - I think. The average person in 1925 was quite a bit smaller than today and bigger people today find that some 1920s car are a tight fit.

[Rusty_OToole]

The easiest car to learn to drive was the Model T Ford. Have heard stories of people who bought Fords, never having driven a car before. The dealer gave them ten minutes of instruction and sent them on their way. They might have wobbled around a bit but they got home safely. That and reading the owner's manual was all the instruction they ever got. Driver's licenses were required but they were easy to get. As late as the mid 30s, a great aunt of mine got a driver's license by stopping at the police station one day and paying a quarter. No test at all, either written or driving. She never drove a car in her life, and only wanted the license for ID in case she wanted to cash a check.

It was possible to learn to drive after a fashion in a short time. But to master all the controls and niceties took a lot longer than today because the cars were not nearly as sophisticated or automated. They required knowledge and skill. Luckily the population was a fraction of today's and roads were not crowded, so you could make every mistake in the book and not kill anybody.

It would be nice if you knew about cars and driving in that period but not necessary. I have read lots of books of that period and they often mention driving but never go into detail and almost never name a make of car. You might see off hand remarks like "let me drive this circus wagon. Is it a standard shift?" (paraphrase from The Great Gatsby). Incidentally Gatsby has a lot of scenes involving cars and driving now that I think about it, but never names a car make, Fitzgerald depends on picturesque descriptions.

[Rusty_OToole]

I remember a story from the twenties (supposedly true) about a young couple who bought a house. The house had a garage, so they not only save on rent, they saved the cost of storing their car in a parking garage, and the annoying charges they always added for servicing, adding oil etc.

Yes they saved money until their car ran dry of oil and burned out a rod bearing. They didn't know you had to check the oil regularly and get it changed every 1000 miles.

I don't know if there were any driving schools back then. Most people got a few lessons and took it from there. In 1925, cars had only really been a common thing for 10 or 15 years. There were lots of people learning to drive in their thirties or forties. Lots more who never drove and were content to go through life not knowing how and never owning a car. I had a great uncle who was born about 1900 and bought his first car in 1948. My grandfather was of a similar age and never owned a car until the late 30s.

There were a few who learned to drive their father's car in their teens. Some as early as 11 or 12 years old. But most men bought their first car in their twenties or thirties, when they could afford one. If they could not afford one, or didn't want one, they did without.

[nzcarnerd]

Rusty, I know this is not directly relevant to this thread but regarding The Great Gatsby - which I have not read - it was interesting to note that the latest version of the movie (which was shot in Australia with a lot of help from computers) uses cars from a much later era than the 1922 in which it was set. I guess because they were more photogenic - i.e. more chrome and brighter colours. There is no doubt that the cars of 1919-1922 were quite plain in comparison.

[Rusty_OToole]

Incidentally a Model T Ford in 1925, was simply called a Ford. Nobody called them Model Ts. They were all Model Ts. Only after the Model A came out in late 1927 did they start calling them Model Ts, to distinguish from the new Ford.

[nzcarnerd]

I guess the reference in Great Gatsby to standard shift means regular H pattern rather then the back to front pattern found in Dodges and Buicks.

[Rusty_OToole]

Rusty, I know this is not directly relevant to this thread but regarding The Great Gatsby - which I have not read - it was interesting to note that the latest version of the movie (which was shot in Australia with a lot of help from computers) uses cars from a much later era than the 1922 in which it was set. I guess because they were more photogenic - i.e. more chrome and brighter colours. There is no doubt that the cars of 1919-1922 were quite plain in comparison.

I would dispute the idea that all 1921 cars were plain, although most were. Have not seen the new movie but look forward to it, even though it has nothing to do with Fitzgerald's novel.

Gatsby is one of my favorite books and I read it over every year or 2. The thing is, the story could not have take place at any other time but 1921 or 22. If you set it in 1929, then Gatsby and Daisy must have had their romance in 1917, Gatsby was overseas until early 1919, then he fooled around for 10 years before he thought of her again.

The essence of the story is that this poor boy was thrown together with a rich girl because he was an army officer in WW1. They fell in love but he had to go and serve his country. Before he got back, she married Tom Buchanan. As soon as the war was over he set out to get rich quick so he could win her away from her husband. All this could not have come to fruition much sooner than 1921, and if it dragged out much longer than 1922 it would have been ridiculous.

Someone also asked me if Gatsby had to be killed at the end of the story. Not at all. It would have been quite possible for Gatsby and Daisy to have run away together but in that case, the story would have been a farce and not a tragedy.

The story as it stands is perfect. I didn't think so at first but every time I read it, it gets better.

[Rusty_OToole]

You should see the big yellow Rolls Royce touring car in the 1974 Gatsby with Robert Redford.

This is a subtlety not many would understand, but while Gatsby could make a fortune as a bootlegger in 1920 and 21, by 1929 he would not have stood a chance. It was in the mid twenties that the real tough gangsters took over the bootlegging racket. A romantic like Gatsby would have gotten pushed out or been killed. In fact that is what happened. Gatsby had gotten out of bootlegging and was doing a deal in stolen bonds at the end of the story.

There are other reasons the story had to take place exactly when it did, and at no other time.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

Here is a lock that was used to disable a car. It clamped on the wheel.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Model-T-A-Antique-Vintage-Rat-Rod-Wheel-Lock-Theft-Signal-Device-Miller-Champan-/141210321384?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20e0ca81e8&vxp=mtr

[nzcarnerd]

The 2013 Great Gatsby movie may have 'nothing to do with Fitzgerald's novel' (I have not read it myself) but the basic elements are there; - Nick, Daisy, Jay Gatsby, the lavish parties, the Valley of Ashes, the yellow car, the blue car (I presume neither specified by make), the accident, the fall from grace. It even states at the beginning that it is 1922 though to those of us who know cars they are obviously all from a later era. The 'yellow car' is a 1980s Duesenberg II and the 'blue car' is an Auburn Speedster, I think built up for the movie. A silver Rolls-Royce Phantom 1 also appeared - http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_606806-Rolls-Royce-Phantom-I-18LF-1927.html - which Baz Luhrmann had previously used in the movie Australia in 2008 - http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_237175-Rolls-Royce-Phantom-I-1927.html. Most of the other cars were imported from the US for the movie. http://www.imcdb.org/movie_1343092-The-Great-Gatsby.html Some of the cars have not been identified yet but there are also some with known histories.

[nzcarnerd]

The movie is quite lavish and as long as you ignore the historical inaccuracies, quite enjoyable.

Edited March 3, 2014 by nzcarnerd (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

"The movie is quite lavish and as long as you ignore the historical inaccuracies, quite enjoyable. "

Does Gatsby get the girl this time?

How about a remake of Gone With The Wind shot in modern Tokyo starring Miley Cyrus as Scarlett O'Hara?

Or a Hamlet with those boring soliloquies cut out and replaced with some snappy dance numbers?

Or a life of Frank Sinatra with Frank as a gangsta rapper?

I intend to see the new Gatsby but I know any resemblance to the novel will be purely coincidental.

Edited March 3, 2014 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

Did he improve the cars by adding Dub wheels and spinning hub caps? How about neon lights under the running boards and fart can exhaust?

[Rusty_OToole]

I don't know what is so hard about telling the Gatsby story as written. There have been five movie versions and not one had the guts to tell it straight. The 1974 version comes close but it's dead, completely missing the point. From what I hear Baz Whatsit didn't get it either but he did his best to jazz it up.

[nzcarnerd]

I have not seen the other Gatsby movies but the 2013 version is certainly a tragedy. The ending is very dark.

[Rusty_OToole]

Clarabelled if you look at this thread again... you ask what the biggest problem would be for a novice driver.

Handling the clutch and gearshift seemed to be the hardest to learn, and continued to be an annoyance even for experienced drivers (no automatic transmissions then, they were not invented until the very late 30s)

The synchromesh transmission was not invented either. Most cars had straight cut gears and it took some skill to time the engine speed, clutch, and transmission for smooth clash free shifting.

Car makers went to a lot of trouble to minimize shifting. They made engines that would idle down to a walking pace in high gear, and pull away without stalling or bucking. This was one of the marks of a good car.

The secret was an engine tuned for smooth low speed power, and low gearing in the rear axle. This meant the engine had to rev hard at high speeds and limited top speed, but this was of little account since road conditions did not encourage high speed driving.

Shifting from low to second, and second to high was not too tricky as long as you did not rush the shift. Take your time and the car will shift smoothly.

Going down from high to second, or second to low, required double clutching or very careful timing of the shift. This is why it was desirable to make a car that would idle down in high, to minimize down shifting.

Transmissions were made rugged so grinding the gears did not destroy them. In city traffic you would often hear the sound of grinding gears.

Another thing to look out for was 2 wheel brakes. Early cars had brakes on the back wheels only. They started putting brakes on the front wheels in 1924 but by 1925, not all cars had them. They were found on expensive cars like Rickenbacker, Duesenberg, Chrysler , Cadillac, Buick and Chalmers, sometimes as an extra cost option. Chrysler was the first car to have 4 wheel hydraulic brakes as standard equipment.

In the late 20s cars with 4 wheel brakes had a triangular sign on the left rear fender that said "4 wheel brakes". This was so following cars would not follow too close and possibly cause a collision.