pertonix for 1955 buick roadmaster

[Airy Cat]

I have used Pertronix ignition in all of my Buicks now for the last 15 years and I have never had any problems with them.

In fact, my cars run smoother, use less gas, and have a little more power. I would not hesitate to use Pertronix.

[60FlatTop]

Actually, I started removing the distributor as a kind of showmanship thing. I had quite a few friends who looked at distributors as magical things. Their past experience had taught them never to remove one or the car might not run again. I'd just crank that engine where I wanted it, pop that distributor out, and take it over to the bench. They just stood there, eyes glazed, and in awe. I put a little extra flare into the job and use extra long screwdrivers. The AMC and Hudson guys seemed most amazed.

The closest thing I can compare it to is one of the Disney scenes where the woodland creatures huddle around the feature character:

Bernie (See the Rambler raccoon?)

Edited July 20, 2013 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

:DI do the same thing but with my eyes closed while chugging a beer. That really drives em wild.........................Bob

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

How many of you Pertronix users drive road trips of 1-3K miles? vs just driving local? :eek:

Me

Ben

[Guest Barneys_Bud]

I would strongly recommend against any form of solid state ignition in any vehicle that has a mechanical voltage regulator. The problem arises when you try to use these type of devices in an environment that has a lot of voltage spikes. I have seen a number of these things fail and I have to believe voltage transients are the cause. Points will always get you there if you elect to use ProTronics or any other type of sophisticated ignition system, always carry the points and enough stuff to convert it back. If you wish to make a mod to the ignition system get a good HV coil. ProTronics makes a good one that will give you more spark. The stock system will do the job, it just has to be 100% functional.

[Guest]

I would strongly recommend against any form of solid state ignition in any vehicle that has a mechanical voltage regulator. The problem arises when you try to use these type of devices in an environment that has a lot of voltage spikes. I have seen a number of these things fail and I have to believe voltage transients are the cause. Points will always get you there if you elect to use ProTronics or any other type of sophisticated ignition system, always carry the points and enough stuff to convert it back. If you wish to make a mod to the ignition system get a good HV coil. ProTronics makes a good one that will give you more spark. The stock system will do the job, it just has to be 100% functional.

No the problem arises when someone like you makes perfectly good sense and gets shot down by the high tech crowd that would be better off in a new Lucerne.

[avgwarhawk]

I keep a Pertronix in my glove box in case the points fail. I have yet to use the Pertronix.

[smithbrother]

I think we ALL should agree that EACH can/should use whatever they wish in their car/cars, knowing that it is THEIR choice.

We are never going to determine what is best for the next guy.

I do my own thing, I welcome you to do the same, now, and in the future.

Love you all,

Dale in Indy

[buick5563]

I keep a Pertronix in my glove box in case the points fail. I have yet to use the Pertronix.

Thats funny!!!

[Bhigdog]

I keep the # for AAA in my wallet for when anything fails. Used it more than once too......................Bob

[bhambulldog]

I would strongly recommend against any form of solid state ignition in any vehicle that has a mechanical voltage regulator. The problem arises when you try to use these type of devices in an environment that has a lot of voltage spikes. I have seen a number of these things fail and I have to believe voltage transients are the cause. Points will always get you there if you elect to use ProTronics or any other type of sophisticated ignition system, always carry the points and enough stuff to convert it back. If you wish to make a mod to the ignition system get a good HV coil. ProTronics makes a good one that will give you more spark. The stock system will do the job, it just has to be 100% functional.

Could the opposite also be true?

In the ten years I've had the solid state replacement for points, I've replaced the voltage regulator twice.

I keep the # for AAA in my wallet for when anything fails. Used it more than once too......................Bob

yep....

[avgwarhawk]

Knocking on wood. I never had to us AAA. It is a nice reassurance to have.

[buick5563]

I have used Hagerty Road Side Assistance, myself.....

[NTX5467]

In re-perusing this thread, there is LOTS of good information in it, even some "ego" orientations, respectfully. We've eadh had our own observations and experiencxes in this area, too! When I first saw a service station mechanic do a point swap in the earlier 1960s, I didn't know what he was doing (at that time). When I lobbied for a MOTOR Manual in 1966 (which I read as I was out of school with the measles (or similar), it was all explained (that was 9th grade). To me, it was a MAJOR book which few other of my friends had . . . and the gained knowledge tended to explain what I'd already read and knew about in the popular car magazines of the day.

It DID show removal of the distributor and the use of a SUN Distributor machine to use for the setting of the point gap and adjustment of the final dwell, plus checking the advance curve specs and vacuum advance. A "one stop" situation. AFTER washing things out in the solvent tank (even if it was a "quick rinse", followed by a "quick dry" with the compressed air nozzle). To me, this was the ultimate way to do things! But I had also seen many other mechanics (and DIY people) who did everything laying on top of the fender covers, hopefully not droppng their feeler gauge and screwdriver in the process. Then doing the final check with the dwell meter followed by a final timing light check. And . . . you know what? Everybody tended to get basically the SAME results! The cars re-started quicker and ran well until it was time for it to be done again in about 12-15K miles! I didn't know of anybody who tried and succeeded in running the points longer than that . . . which was NOT considered "good maintenance" back then.

I remember one "major advance in ignition service" back then. It was a thin sleeve which you put over the distributor cam lobes, then set the new point gap to a specified value, then removed the sleeve and the points were set "to specs" . . . with much less time and trouble than trying to get the "right drag" on the feeler gauge. BUT I didn't know of many who used it as electronics were just around the corner.

In those earlier times, ALL of the new ignition points sets came with that little vial of lobe grease, which everybody knew what it was and that putting it on the distributor's cam lobes was a vital part of points replacement. But we figured it was more related to rubbing block wear than cam lobe wear (with the rubbing block being a softer material than the "steel" cam lobe). In the time in the middle 1980s when some were reporting that points were needing to be replaced at 6-8K miles, that was when the replacement point sets were NOT coming with that grease anymore . . . for whatever reason . . . AND the newer people (in the vintage car hobby, now purchasing "old" 1960s cars for the first time) were not aware of the "cam lobe grease" issues! Hence, many swapped in later model OEM-type electronic systems and were glad to do it . . . with ALL of the benefits thereof, typically.

It was in the later 1980s when some electronic voltage regulators started to surface as OEM-style replacements! If you bougt one from O'Reillys, it would look pretty much like a replacement voltage regulator, until you took it apart and saw the electronic "guts" and circuit board! Such a stealth upgrade! Just swap out the metal covers and you had the best of both worlds . . . a desired OEM-look (date codes and all!) AND electronics to replace the prior "vibrating points" mechanism! I'd forgotten about that until somebody mentioned it a while back.

When I put the Chrysler MP kit on my '67 Chrysler, I also replaced the voltage regulator with the (allegedly necessary!) MP solid-state voltage regulator . . . which was calibrated for 14 volt output (which the Race Manual mentioned would affect the electrical longevity of ALL electric components in the car, due to the higher-supplied voltage, all of the time . . . which turned out to be true for me as it also helped find a certain "high-resistance" electrical joint in the "big red wire" going to the ignition switch, done by a prior owner). I put the original points-style voltage regulator back in and no change in performance of driveavility. But I don't drive it that much now, either. I also used a normal electronic box, rather than the supplied "Orange Box", due to its lower battery voltage requirements to fire the plugs and start the car. For an "all out race car", the 14V electronic voltage regulator and different control box might have been good, but for an every-day type car, NOT!

As for "voltage spikes" . . . the "points-style" voltage regulators use the "vibrating points" to regulate voltage flow from the alternator/generator to achieve the final output levels needed for the various operational situations of the vehicle. On many newer vehicles (i.e., current production since sometime in the 1990s, when the PCM controls and modulates power generation output), ultimate alternator output is governed by "turning on and off" the alternator's output, NOT the smooothly-modulated flow which some might suspect. Therefore, it's operating just like the older points-style regulator, just done electronically, to achieve the needed results. All of the electrical output might be perceived to be "smooth", but as the "ups" are so close together and happenign so quickly (with either system), the resultant output is smooooth, but if you look at how things are happening, it's all about "ups" and "downs" happening very quickly.

For example, many Chrysler products use a "voltage limiter" to decrease voltage to the instrument panel gauges to about 5 volts, from 12 volts. The original design was a "vibrating points" type, on the back of the fuel gauge, as I recall. Later factory versions were "solid-state" versions, to accomplish the same thing. I believe an aftermarket supplier is now doing some retro-fit items, as many didn't know the 1980s era units had been changed to "electronic" or what we used to term "transistorized". End result was that the gauges operated smooothly, rather than "jerky" from voltage spikes. Not unlike an electric light bulb, with a supply voltage of 60hz, appearing as a "solid light" rather than a light of 60 pulses/second.

Obviously, the newer electronic-modulated systems can keep a tighter control of the "highs and lows" of the alternator's electrical output than the prior "analog" systems might have been capable of. Not unlike the later 3000-grit sand paper or liquid compounds do for paint jobs. BUT, unlike in earlier times (with the analog systems), if you replace a bad alternator with a new one on a vehicle, you HAVE to ensure that the battery is at a reasonably-full charge level . . . lest the electronic controls sense that the battery is undercharged, send PEAK output to the battery to remedy the undercharged state, AND cook the alternator at that time . . . with ONE major voltage spike that cooks the alternator . . . which is NOT a warrantiable situation, but a "user issue". Of course, with our newer 100+ amp alternators, it all happens quite instantaneously! Customer perceives a "bad replacement alternator", but then later mentions the "dead battery" in the conversation. The parts person then says "Here's why the new alternator failed . . . " as the customer is handed a new alternator, with a stern "suggestion" to fully charge the battery FIRST. NOT like the old "analog" days when you cold "drive-charge" a dead battery back to life!

As vehicle technology has increased over the centuries, we've become aware of issues we didn't really know were "issues" in earlier times. In some respects, the vehicles useful lives were shorter and many of these "wear issues" didn't become such until the vehicles started lasting longer. Remember how the first use of ANY oil filter was a major advance in automotive longevity and maintenance? Then Ford's "6000 mile oil change and chassis lube" in about 1963? The increased use of "dry" air filters in the 1950s (rather than the prior "oil bath" versions)? Then the use of "underhood electronics" in the earlier 1970s? In EACH case, increased technology resulted in decreased maintenance requirements of the newer vehicles. In many cases, as in the case of oil and air filtration, these upgrades were retro-fitted to older vehicles by the component manufacturers, which tended to benefit them as well as the newer vehicles they were used on. Motor oils were similar, at least until the later "SM+" formulations, too, NOT to forget the synthetic formulations (which appeared in the earlier 1970s, prior to Mobil1, for specific use, as in "Artic Circle" locations). As these lubes and such were refined, so were the automotive systems which utilized them, yet they could and do/did benefit the older vehicles they could be used in, with similar results.

All of these things have tended to work synergistically to lengthen preventative maintenance intervals for various vehicular systems. Ignition components are just one area of such advances and upgrades, over time. Of course, it used to be somewhat of a national passtime to "tune and maintenance" our vehicles on weekend days, every month or so, when the average vehicle might go 12K per year. As some owners can now drive 80K per year, with longer job commutes, that puts about 4 years worth of driving (even a complete "useable vehicle situation, for good measure!) into one short year's time. With prior maintenance schedules in place, circa 1960, maintenance downtime would be significant and costly, by comparison. Not to forget about engine overhauls every year, at this elevated useage level! When certain vehicle brands' timing chains were on "borrowed time" after about 80K miles! BUT, even back then, with a good maintenance-for-use program, vehicles could easily go past 100K and still be reliable, just that with the promoted "trade cycles" of the American auto industry, FEW people kept vehicles past that point, desiring to let "somebody else" pay for those repairs instead.

And, of course, as WE have aged too, getting the car high enough off of the ground to do an in-driveway/garage oil change is a "not like it used to be, either (unless our later-in-life affluency has resulted in in-garage lifts!). NOR is leaning over the fender to get to that "rear-hidden" distributor on a Pontiac V-8 the same as it used to be, even with the "additional padding" now available! PLUS that I've become more aware of the fact that that softer rubber backing on the good fender covers can collect dirt/dust to it which is not too good on the paint the cover is supposed to be protecting (by comparison, the "wool Army blanket" might be a better choice). "Better living through chemistry" and electronics . . .

Thoughts and observations . . . if yours might vary, I respect that, but I also know what I've seen over the years . . . and how that's shaped my later orientations on many subjects. A continuously-variable situation (like the torque multiplication from a DynaFlow "torque converter").

NTX5467

Edited August 18, 2013 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

I read all that and I actually clipped the coupon and bought the 1961 Motor manual for $9.95. Talk about ego in a ninth grader; it was like years later when I was the only guy in my group with a pitman arm puller. (Pitman arm- spell checker doesn't even recognize it and I have the tool to service them.)

Anyway NTX stuck a chord with the ego comment. As I read I realized that my approach to maintenance is much like taking a dog for a walk. It is not a statistical approach to life cycle optimization of my car and its components. For me it is ownership. These are my points. These are my wheel bearings. These are my universal joints. In servicing "I" get to touch my stuff. Just like a walk with the dog. This is my tree. This is my sign post. This is my bush.

I just enjoy spending time in the garage marking my territory. If I wasn't setting points or doing some other seemingly unnecessary maintenance task, who knows, I might pee on the tires.

Bernie

[avgwarhawk]

Pride in ownership, maintenance and conquering issues that arise. Doing this with your own hands, tools and know how make the difference.

I never like another working on my daily drivers. Warranty work no problem. Mount tires. No problem. Anything else is all me.

Edited August 18, 2013 by avgwarhawk (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

Knowing your respective capabilities, even E X P A N D I N G your horizons when possible, can be HUGE confidence-builders and knowledge-increasers for anybody who might venture into those unknown areas. Those things can also elevate your status in "the community" of others who haven't gotten that far, just yet, too, which can be neat. Many of these successes can also spill over into your professional life, too, which can be good. Little successes, built-upon, can lead to more and larger successes as you are building your OWN knowledge and expertise base from which to further build upon in the future. Maybe a few chuck-holes along the way? Even a few dips? That's "experience" . . .

Take care!

NTX5467