One thing begets another part 2!

[Daves1940Buick56S]

In prep for the fuel pump reinstall (see here), I was checking over the "right side" items, and was taking a close look at the distributor. The breaker plate seemed very sticky. Keep in mind I found the vac advance to be bad so who knows the last time it had to move in anger! I tried lubing the ball bearing with lubriplate (white grease) but not much help. So....out comes the distributor. I set the engine back to #1 timing point and yanked it, came out easy. Got the breaker plate removed, here is what the centrifugal looked like:

Could be worse, right? Finished disassembly and cleaned everything up. Heavy cleaning on the parts, wipe down and brass brush on the distro housing and interior. Parts ready for reassembly:

* Important question *: What is this part for? Large screw with spring behind with some kind of rotted packing. I can't find this on any of the exploded distro drawing I have. Any ideas?

Centrifugal advance completed:

Next, I put together the breaker plate. I used wheel bearing grease for the 3 balls and sockets, had to adjust the sprung one a bit to make the movement easier. Still not perfect but a lot better. Put on the new vac advance and ground lead and tested with vacuum - still works to spec (MightyVac is the best accessory tool ever!). Then filed, burnished, and cleaned the points and mounted with capacitor and hot lead. Measured point pull at about 25 oz. A little high but I think it will be OK.

I gapped the points but started thinking how I use dwell in the shop. So I put my dingus making skills to work and used a piece of heater hose, 3/8" fuel line, and a 3/8" twist drill to interface to my cordless drill. My analyzer is self powering so I did not have to replicate the coil primary and supply DC. It worked great and I was able to spin it to 1000 indicated RPM (500 RPM actual) and confirmed an exact 31 degrees. I could also vary the speed up and down and confirm dwell variation was minimal. It was fun to take a close look at the points in action real time. Here is the setup:

I lubed it all including moly into the zerk - getting a nice flow now. And distro cam lube - had a hard time finding it, finally had to mailorder it. So I start to throw it all back together tomorrow. Before I do, I might put an o-scope on it and see if there is any point float at higher RPM.

Cheers, Dave

[jeff]

* Important question *: What is this part for? Large screw with spring behind with some kind of rotted packing. I can't find this on any of the exploded distro drawing I have. Any ideas?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]200297[/ATTACH]

I was just looking at the distributor cross-section in my '38 shop manual the other day. I believe they called that piece a brake, or something like that. Does it add just a bit of friction to the advance mechanism so it doesn't tend to over travel or bounce around?

Jeff

[DonMicheletti]

When I worked on the '38 distributor it looked about the same as yours, but there was a little drag on the shaft when everything was out. I took the shaft out and cleaned the shaft and the bore. I found the little "brake" too It just rubs on the shaft. All I can figure is that it is supposed to keep the gear lash down, but I dont see how that little spring and chunk of felt riding on a shaft a little over 1/2" in diameter is going to do much. After back together and with the "brake" in, I didnt feel any drag at all to speak of.

The balls on the breaker plate were a bit rusty and there was a lot of crud in the grove where the balls ran. I cleaned the grove and put new balls in (.250" dia, about $6 from Mc Master Carr for 100 - anybody need some?)

Don

[FLYER15015]

Dave,

Looks like you did a fine job.......

Remembering back to my drag racing days, did you check to make sure both advance springs have the same tension ? do the two weights check out to the same weight ? You know you can file them down to take about 10% of the weight off them and get a bit better acceleration out of the motor. That's what Summit Racing sells, light weights and softer springs.

Just an idea........

Mike in colorado

[Daves1940Buick56S]

Mike:

According to the info I have, 1 spring is supposed to have higher tension then the other. I did not check the weights of the weights (!) but probably should have. Let's see how she runs, hopefully by tomorrow. I am putting all parts back on the engine now.

Cheers, Dave

[trp3141592]

Hi,

I cleaned the groove and put new balls in (.250" dia, about $6 from Mc Master Carr for 100 - anybody need some?)

Don<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

I just rebuilt the frozen vacuum advance plate today on the '40 LaSalle, and the advance unit is off to Terrill Machine for rebuilding. The LaSalle's distributor appears to be the same as the pictured distributor, but there is a difference: after one of the three loose bearing balls ended up under the tool cabinet, I miked one of the others and found it to be 7/32" (.21875"), and not 1/4" (.250").

So, if anyone else is re-doing their rotating plate, I suggest miking the ball diameters before attempting re-assembly and see if you should call Don or me when (not if) you lose one. Or two. Or all three. It appears that Don and I have several lifetimes supply of these balls. I have a hundred of these 7/32" size from McMaster-Carr (my FAVORITE hardware store!) and will share if anyone needs up to 99 of them.

--Tom

Edited June 30, 2013 by trp3141592 (see edit history)

[FLYER15015]

Tom,

In reading the last few posts, it seems like you and Don have a lot of balls...........to sell.

Seriously, I have a question about your "Roadmonster", pictures so well in your posts.

Did Buick, or some aftermarket folks, back in the day, make headlight cans that were hinged at the center seam, and doubled up as a tool box ? Especially on the drivers side headlight.

As I get older, the short term memory is going away, but the old stuff is comming back, and I seem to remember my Grandfather wishing he had chosen that option on his new '37.

Just a question to muddy up Dave's thread.

Mike in Colorado

[trp3141592]

Hi Mike,

I have never come across the idea of a tool box in the headlight buckets in any vehicle, but, wow, what an interesting thought! As late as 1937, and maybe later, the headlights were not sealed beams, so having the can open up may have been problematic. I converted my car to sealed beams years ago, and I would have noticed for sure if the buckets would open.

The closest idea to that which I have come across was the tool box that came as standard equipment on my dad's Ford 9N tractor. It was mounted at the side of the engine on the left (nominally "driver's" side) . My dad moved it to the exterior surface of one of the rear fenders.

I have wondered if any pre-war cars had tool boxes factory-installed under the hood. In many cases there was plenty of room there.

--Tom

[FLYER15015]

Tom,

Closest I could come was my '53 MG-TD which had a tool box incorporated in the top of the firewall. Had a lid on each side.

Of course with a TD, you had to carry a lot of tools and spares.

Mike in Colorado

[Daves1940Buick56S]

OK, so I did drag out my scope and took a look at the response at various speeds. All looks OK, no point bounce. I put a 4 Henry choke in line to offset the capacitance from the bypass cap (condenser).

So now am ready for the install:

Install went very smooth, static time OK, distro ready:

After that I put the fuel pump back in (see here), the now-clean battery tray and the new battery, and the new fuel filter on the input side of the pump, I was ready for a compression test.

I should also add that before I did the compression test I yanked all of the plugs and hand-turned the engine over to the exact 4 deg BTDC point on the flywheel and carefully painted index lines on the timing chain cover, pulley and damper. I also added a line on the pulley and damper at the TDC point. This will make it a *lot* easier to use a timing lite and also make it possible to check advance action while running.

Note to all geezers like me whose eyes are going: I used a telephoto lens on my camera (which focuses very close, almost a macro) to "zoom in" to see the flywheel timing marks.

The compression test went OK but I am not liking the results (see here). Before I ran it I wanted to check what was going on inside the transmission. Last week with the help of my 16 yr old neighbor we got the remainder of the old matting out, exposing the access panel:

So after cleaning out the screw slots, I PB-Blasted it and my helper used the 3 foot screwdriver to get goo leverage, all 5 screws came out no problem! So I pulled the xmission top cover, and as I suspected, it was almost dry. I threw in a liter of 75W-90 for the time being.

After double checking proper ops for the fuel pump I got it started OK and used the lite to get the timing pretty close to the 4 degree spec. With the vacuum advance disconnected, I confirmed proper centrifugal advance using the timing lite, then hooked up the advance and confirmed ops there as well. But at this point the idle is not as smooth as I think it should be. I readjusted the carb, but somehow I am thinking that I may have a vac leak somewhere. I did find a leak in the windshield wipers so that is cut off for now. I tried the carb cleaner trick onto the seams but no change. I also retorqued the manifold nuts to 40 lb/ft. I have a friend with an exhaust gas analyzer so that may tell the tale. But I am wondering if manifold removal and new gaskets is my nest step.

Unfortunately near the end of this I wrenched my back pretty badly so I am out of action for a few days as far as car work. Time for the honey-do's!

I have video of the vacuum gauge behavior and I will get a YouTube account so I can put in a pointer to it.

Cheers, Dave

[FLYER15015]

Geeeze Dave,

You put a "Scope" on a '40 Buick..............

You know you're making us all blush with envy............

Back in the day, I'll bet the old mechanics just slapped a set of points and plugs in her, and gave the dist a twist till she "sounded right", and sent the customer down the road.

There has to be an "app" for your phone that lets you monitor the ignition circuit as you motor down the lane.

Too Buck Rogerish for me.............

Mike in Colorado

[Daves1940Buick56S]

OK, trying to link to the vac gauge video. Let me know your thoughts.

Cheers, Dave

[trp3141592]

Hi,

Gosh--and to think that this afternoon I set the points in one of the cars with <GASP!> a FEELER GAUGE!!!

--Tom :cool:

[DonMicheletti]

There was a time when you'd set point gap using a match book cover - when everyone smoked. A feeler gage was too expensive. And as mentioned, youd set the timing so it sounded good and didnt ping on hard acceleration.

[Larry Schramm]

Or setting the points with a dime.

[Daves1940Buick56S]

Yeah, yeah, I did all of that myself too back about 40 years ago! No money then for any froo-froo instruments!! Trying to drag us all into the 21st century, ya know???

Kidding, Dave

[trp3141592]

Hi,

I'll go to a scope when my feeler gauges wear out. And as a Cord owner still buying parts, I don't have a dime left over for setting points!

--Tom

[FLYER15015]

I'll wait for the phone app. Oh that's right. My phone still has an antenna sticking up out of it. Darn................ Mike

[danhar1960]

I'm with you on this one Dave. I like all the do-dads and gizmos too.

No shed/garage should be without them.

Danny

[CHAD THOMAS]

Back to the Tranny being dry,

Did you pull the fill plug out of the differential to drain the excess oil?

It all went somewhere and pretty sure it was not all on the ground!

[Daves1940Buick56S]

Chad:

Not yet. It might have also seeped out over a long period so it might not all be in the diff. But that is on the list once I can get my back in shape to do work again. Haven't been able to do anything on the car for over a week, going back to the doc again today. The muscle relaxer I am on makes me pretty loopy (or loopier than I normally am!).

Cheers, Dave

[CHAD THOMAS]

Learned that trick from an older Buick guy. Had mine up on his lift to add 90 weight to the tranny and he went to the rear and took out the fill plug.....

I swear he drained as much out of the rear end as I added to front end.

[FLYER15015]

Hey Tom,

Quit fooling with points, get your grinder out and start making those big honking headlight buckets into tool boxes.

Bet that would kock their socks off at the next car show !!!!

Mike in Colorado

[trp3141592]

Hey Mike,

You're just jealous that your headlights have sagged down into the fenders from their proper (and perky) location on the side of the radiator.

Actually, it might be fun to planish and hammer out new buckets that double as tool boxes. I'll put that on the list, but there's a lot ahead of it.

--Tom

[Marty Roth]

Tom, my '48 MG-TC had tool boxes in the fire wall, and needed all the Whitworth tools I could carry, along with a METRIC CRESCENT WRENCH - dry stuff leaked - what should be dry, wasn't, and then the SMOKE WOULD LEAK OUT OF THE WIRES, like any LUCAS system, and we would push our friend's Buick with the PUSH-ROPE to get home. Marty

[trp3141592]

Hi Marty,

I NEVER question any horror story about Lucas electrics. With Lucas equipment, "all things are ready if our minds be so."

As for the rest, well.... I mean, really, a METRIC Crescent wrench? LOL. :cool:

--Tom

[FLYER15015]

Hey Mike,

You're just jealous that your headlights have sagged down into the fenders from their proper (and perky) location on the side of the radiator.

Actually, it might be fun to planish and hammer out new buckets that double as tool boxes. I'll put that on the list, but there's a lot ahead of it.

--Tom

If mine have slipped a bit, pity the poor '41 guys, who's lights have almost fallen off the edge of the fender, and the '39 guys (like Grant and Danny) who's lights look like "stepchildren".

Now I'm waiting for marty to pick up on the headlight bucket/ toolbox idea. Yea marty, my '53 TD had a tool box incorporated in the firewall and it was full of fuel pumps, light bulbs, and duck tape.

Q= Why do Englishmen drink warm beer.......A= They all have Lucas refridgerators. Lucas...... The prince of darkness.........

Mike in Colorado

[Daves1940Buick56S]

As I have metioned, I used to work recon system ops at various USAF bases in the 80s. At one of them we were having a big inspection and we civvies and contractors got dragged in, having to square away all tools etc to ridiculous ends. So I got a PMEL sticker (calibration of electrical test equip) had the PMEL rep sign it and put it on a hammer. He wrote "right hand use only". Our own little strike-back at the system...

Cheers, Dave