1916 D45 For Auction in Dundee, Michigan 27AP13

[Brian_Heil]

Ran across this today. Dundee is in very southern Michigan just above Toledo. Not running but complete. There are some pretty good pics.

Lots of interesting military vehicles at this same auction.

Find the 'view photo gallery' link near the top of the post.

American Eagle Auction & Appraisal Company - Upcoming Michigan Auctions

[Terry Wiegand]

BRIAN, THERE YOU GO - YOU COULD BUY THAT CAR AND SWAP THE WHEELS OFF YOUR CAR AND NOT HAVE TO DO ANY PAINTING. THAT IS A ROUGH OLD CUSTOMER. THE TOP AIN'T RIGHT ON IT. IT WOULD COST TWO SMALL FORTUNES TO MAKE IT RIGHT. LOOKS LIKE THAT GUY WAS GONNA START A WAR OR SOMETHIN' WITH ALL THE ARMY VEHICLES HE HAD. TERRY WIEGAND DOO DAH AMERICA

[Brian_Heil]

The guy did have an interesting collection that is being auctioned. You'd be the only kid on the block with a half-track. On second thought Dr. Doo Dah, we don't need you with something that mounts a gun.

My current project is an early CJ5 (1960) so I get some 'Jeep feeds' and it was a surprise to see the Buick in there.

What would be really cool is if this is an early 1916 built in 1915 and thereby eligible for HCCA events. The note that it has not run in 30+ years is a big concern. Frozen engine? Cracked block? What parts are missing? Etc.

Woke up to a dusting of snow here today 18 miles south of Flint. Too cold (for me) to go out in the garage and mess around.

Just might head to that auction for the fun of it next weekend. Now there's an idea. I could bid for one of you. The high number of military vehicles will bring out an interesting and good size crowd I'm certain but the Buick just might get passed over.

[Mark Shaw]

Brian,

Get a storage unit ready for the stuff you buy.... That Buick wouldn't take much to make it a great touring car. See if there are any Buick parts mixed in with the Jeep stuff too...

[Brian_Heil]

If all I had was the current Buick, I'd be shopping (or buying rental property like a guy I know in Washington state who then fills the garages of them with Buicks. )

Happy Wife, Happy Life as the old saying goes. In addition to the Buick and now the Willys Jeep, I have two Chevys ('57 and '65) I've had for over 33 years that are all original, ready to go, and oh yeah, a boat. So 4's the limit on cars. Unless of course they try to give that Buick away next week.:cool: Somebody on this forum needs a project and a good 'agent' to help them buy that car.

The 1960 CJ5 Jeep has only 33,000 miles on it but no front floors (common) and sat for years in a good barn with a frozen throw-out bearing. It now has new, tires (it was still on the origianl rubber) clutch, pressure plate and throw-out bearing among other things and this Spring will get new floors and a paint job. My goal is to have something similar to what I drove around in college. That's me behind the wheel in Ann Arbor circa 1979 with the original 1956 Mudd Shark ($356!). Don't laugh too hard. The guy in the passenger seat is now an M.D. and runs half of the Mayo Clinic. The guy on the back has more mining equipment patents than I can count. Check out my fine rustoleom paint job and that mop of hair.

[Thriller]

Lots of cool stuff there...it may be a good thing the shop is full(ish) and there is still snow on the ground up here, reducing temptation for this character.

We do have a local military vehicle collector's group, so it wouldn't surprise me if other locals were aware of it, or even present at the auction.

[Guest Rob McDonald]

Dundee is in very southern Michigan just above Toledo. Not running but complete.

The same could be said about many North American cities.

[dibarlaw]

The top frame/irons on the D-45 looks correct for the car. Just how it was recovered is incorrect. All that extra fabric would look better on my 1925-25s short changed top job. Looks like a good project. If only....sigh..The 1913 Ford is a really a 1915. This was the one I always wanted. As a child I thought that they were supposed to fly! I had an obsession about the one in "The Absent Minded Professor" (1961 Walt Disney. Larry

[Marty Roth]

Brian,

I still don't have my '14 Model 37 Starter-Generator back. A spare which would work with my car seems a decent idea at this point.

[Brian_Heil]

Ha, you guys are dreaming.:cool:

My experience on DR starter generators is no two years are the same. I only have a spare one for my '23 six cylinder because a guy bought it for his '22 only to find it won't fit, so I bought it. In fact, I think it was Dr. Doo Dah.

I'm very curious what some of the vehicles actually go for at this auction and how active the bidding is. I'm certain the place will have lots of Military Collectors, but how many Model T/A and Buick collectors, esp. when none of them run?

I can't watch Barret Jackson. The money they throw around just makes me ill, then the guy down the street thinks that's what he should get too.

[Dandy Dave]

Yes. A 1914 Delco Starter Generator for these early Buick is a one year only item, and it only works on the B-36, B-37 and the very rare B-38 series. The B-55 looks the same but it is wound differently inside. I've been looking for a spare for my 1915 C-36, (Also a one year only Item for that year and the 221 CID engine series.) for 7 years and finally got lucky enough to land a parts car with the right one still on it. Dazzeling and delightful. Getting it is going to be quite an adventure but well worth it in my opinion. Dandy Dave!

Edited April 25, 2013 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Marty Roth]

Dave,

Good luck with the parts car/truck -- great find !!

[Brian_Heil]

Well, this is going to be interesting and hopefully fun.

I sent a note to the Auction House asking about special access for my 90 year old Dad, who like most that age is also a WWII Vet (Pilot) which I also mentioned (and has limited mobility). They responded with VIP parking and access. Not bad. Told my Dad he better wear his flight jacket and 8th Air Force cap to seal the deal.

Not sure how close of an inspection they will allow on the D45, but I will bring the crank from my '23 to see if the motor at least turns over. The wife has burried my wallet in the garden so no purchases for me (but then Dad has his ).

Good excuse to get Dad out and have some fun, he'll be a celebrity.

[Brian_Heil]

Couldn't get Dad's pic to load on that last one. My '23 Buick came off the line in September of '22 and so did he!

[Thriller]

That says something for the people running the auction. Good on them.

Enjoy Brian...I'm a bit jealous.

[dibarlaw]

Brian: Good luck on the D-45 and hope you and your dad have a good experience. Keep us posted on what you find. I would love to be there but I would have leave right now to be there by 9:00 in the morning. Hope it is better than the fiasco I experienced at the auction (NO SALE) last fall of the 1924-45 and parts. Drive Safe: Larry

[Brian_Heil]

My Dad and I had a good day at the auction Saturday. They had a reserved parking spot about 40 feet away for us to park and the head guy greated us as we parked, everyone else took a shuttle bus. The Auction people were first rate, some of the other things that happened were a little interesting and I'll share that in a minute.

First, if you didn't go to the auction on-line site, then you don't have a feel for how big this auction was. Three buildings 50' x 150' just packed with WWII and Civil War 'stuff'. You name it. As an example, one box contained ~50 WWII gas masks, another more WWII gun brushes than you could count. Now imagine two of the building packed with every item you could think of and the third building held all the vehicles, mostly jeeps, weapons carrier style pick-ups, ambulances, rubber tired british tanks, a half track and then the old cars too about 40 total. All the vehicles were outside, (great weather, 67F and sunny) including the D45, A Chevrolet 490, 2 Model T's a Model A and a Model T truck and then all the WWII vehicles.

There were people bidding inside with one aucton on stuff since early morning and then at 1:00 pm the vehicle auction started while they were maybe 1/4 of the way through the stuff inside so the two auctions happened at the same time. The old cars were aucitoned first.

The D45. My first words are 'complete' and 'unmolested'. Everything was there (the radiator cap had been removed for safe keeping by the auction house) right down to all the grease caps and nuts on the spark plugs. Only thing missing was a headlamp trim ring and lens. Original paint on the body and fenders, pin stripe still on the spokes. The seats had been re-done in the 60's as a guess and done well. The top was a quickie trim shop job and was sound but had not a straight stitch on it, might have been home made also in the '60s. I brought my '23 crank with me and tried to see if the engine would turn over. It would not. I'm 6'6" and 250# and it would not move. I also saw some of red wet rust coming out of the side of the block down behind the starter/generator. As mentioned in the auction material, they said it was not running and had not run since the '80s and that would be my guess too. But I'm fairly certian it had a cracked block in addition to being frozen. There was a spare engine out behind one of the buildings available and was thought to have been puchased for the block. The spare engine was missing most of the valvetrain and stater/gen etc but still had the pan on it. Now the interesting part.

There were lots of 'regulars' there. Nice folks interested in old cars, jeeps, etc and the handful of regulars that were interested in the Buick, I gave them my assessment and they were happy for it when they learned I knew something about old Buicks.

Remember now, none of these vehicles runs and most have been in the warehouse behind us for 10 years since they last ran.

The auction starts with the Chevy 490. Good action, fast bidding, nicest of the old 'cars' there, it went for $5500 to a young guy with lots of good ol' boys in on the auction. OK the D45 is next. Same thing, lots of good ol' boys and the same young man gets the Buick. $5500 (+ 13% fee). And so it goes for the rest of the afternoon. By my guess, he bought over half the vehicles there and spent over six figures. I went up to speak to him about the Buick and his quote to me when I introduced myself was, a glare and 'I really don't care'. My Dad who was next to me was 'well I'll be damned did I hear him right?'. I thought about having a discussion with him about manners but knew I would be wasting my time.

By my guess, this 'fellow' was there to buy and then flip everything on ebay. Just a guess. He really put a damper on things as good ol' boys realized they weren't going to get past this guy and that he was some sort of broker or something. Dressed like a bum and manners to match.

Other than that, it was fun, I've never been to vehicle auction. Most of the jeeps went for $3000 - 6000, not running and good 30 footers. A 1942 Harley with sidecar in good condition went for $22K. We left after the 5 cars about 12 of the jeeps had been sold.

So, if a blue and black D45 shows up on ebay, give us here a shout. I thought the price for a very original complete car with a stuck/cracked engine was about right, the completeness being key. Not sure what if anything happened with the spare engine.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Brian_Heil (see edit history)

[Terry Wiegand]

Brian, too bad about the block being cracked on that '16. If you had wound up with the car I have an extra 'good' '16/'17 D-Series block. The photo you took of the ignition side of the engine looks fairly decent. Did you by chance take any photos of the manifold side of the engine? I am amazed at the condition of the water return tube, ignition wire tube, and the water pump outlet tube to the block. The latter two are very thin-walled brass tubing and are normally beat and dented all to hell. It would take several bushel baskets full of hundred dollar bills to bring it up to a presentable condition. I am saying this because my '16 is a very, very nice condition original car. Larry is right about the top. The bows look correct to the car. It has been recovered wrong. I think we all have ran across guys like that at auctions. The best thing is to make sure that they pay and pay well for what they get. Terry Wiegand Doo Dah America

[Brian_Heil]

Dr. Doo Dah,

I only took the pictures you see, sorry.

[dibarlaw]

Brian: Thanks for the report. I could have imagined the same senario as you experienced. I have been to sales with like vintage cars and the actual knowledgeable spectators stop bidding at or below the "book price". Mainly because they know the special problems involved with that particular car and the cost to rectify. Then the "flipper" takes over usually still getting the car at reasonable price. When asked if they need any help or support with getting the car running or historical documentation. They simply blow you off and state that they really don't care about the cars history, engineering or an offer of help. Just what can be realized in cash. I had been chasing a very original, old restoration 1925-25 Buick Standard touring car that showed up on e-bay last year. Looked to have just been purchased at a contractors auction a short time before as the pictures posted were obviously from that auction. While bidding was still going on I asked for more detailed photos...no response.. After the sale I asked if the seller could at least put me in touch with the new owner. To get some mutual benifit of our experiences... no response. On the other end of my auction experience were my posts about the 1924-45 not sold near Pittsburgh. Thanks Again Brian: Larry

[Larry Schramm]

Did someone say they wanted some more pictures? Here are some more pictures of the car engine on the other side, etc........................................

Edited May 1, 2013 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

And did someone ask for some pictures of the spare engine behind the building??....................................................................................................

As you can guess I did go down to the auction, but ended not staying. I did not see any other Buick stuff so took off for home as I was looking for 4 cyl parts. Maybe I will see you next time Brian.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Terry Wiegand]

Larry, thanks for posting the photos that you took. It is always a good thing to take photos for future reference. That car appears to be in really decent shape under the hood except for a busted block and being stuck. The serial number indicates that it is earlier in the production run than mine. This engine used the earlier exhaust manifold than mine. That really is a shame about the block. Thanks again for the pics. Terry Wiegand Doo Dah America

[Brian_Heil]

Well done Larry. Sorry to have missed you. I've still not recovered from all the 'WWII stuff' in the buildings. Not sure how someone accumulates that much.

I thought the VIN was early too (145,XXX). Interesting since if this 1916 was built in 1915 Calendar Year then it could attend HCCA events (right?)

So Larry, did you leave before the actual bidding started?

Thx.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Brian_Heil (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

Brian, Left before the bidding started as there was nothing that I could use. I agree with all of the WWII stuff. Just overwhelming. Larry